Squids in the US? [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

macros87

23rd June 2009, 02:36

SARGE

23rd June 2009, 06:51

just wondering anyone know how encouraged rider protective gear is over here? ive been here several times, but i didnt ride back then so i just didnt notice, but i have seen no one wearing gloves! no one! about 3 people wearing full face helmets but i guess thats your choice, and maybe 3 people wearing some sort of jacket (non that i could tell were jackets ment for riding) so short sleave t shirts are reigning at the moment with summer and all...

this is something i have obeserved after about 30 bikes i have watched so maybe my sample is too small and to many were harley types but thats just what they do here right :P it is nice to see different bikes from the usual tho :)

in Ohio where im from .. you are only legally required to wear a helmet for the first year on your license.. after that ..only eye protection is required..

i always wore full gear on the interstates and when i knew i was gonna get sporty.. the rest of the time i was in a tank top, jeans and boots ..

dont think i died...

Slyer

23rd June 2009, 09:02

Anyone who's had at off at even 50kph will see our point of view.
Clearly they just never crash over there.

PirateJafa

23rd June 2009, 10:22

Anyone who's had at off at even 50kph will see our point of view.
Clearly they just never crash over there.
Better quality roads for a start.

Slyer

23rd June 2009, 11:52

You have to have good roads when the average weight of a family vehicle is 2 ton

Taz

23rd June 2009, 12:07

America still believes in freedom of choice I believe. Sheeple over here like to be told how they should live etc.

rachprice

23rd June 2009, 12:11

Taz

23rd June 2009, 12:14

balans

23rd June 2009, 12:55

Perth is pretty bad, especialy in summer. It is quite common to see a rider with their girlfriend on the back both dressed in just sneakers, shorts and a t-shirt with only a helmet for protection blast past you on the freeway.

Oh and the other during my morning commute (raining) I saw someone on a scooter in boardshorts. I assume the logic was that he'd just get wet and when he got to work change into dry clothing.

Real_Wolf

23rd June 2009, 13:38

Anthrax, your quite mistaken.

I know that eventually, I will crash. No matter the precautions, the simple statistics show that if I obey EVERY rule, drive carefully, avoid crazy drivers, at some point I will still crash.

So you may say that some are of the opinion that you have to crash while learning, some do, some don't, nor will you crash every year, but something as simple as a little bit of oil/diesel on a wet smooth tarmac road, when its raining, with the light such that you can't see the road surface properly, and your back/front wheel can just spin and then you will come off it.

Protective gear isn't there because you think you are going to fall off, its insurance. However unlike insurance on your bike, this is so that when you fall off you don't lose limbs, break bones, become paralyzed, grind your hand into mush, smash your head against concrete a few times, rip your jaw off.

For those who are unconcerned by the above, and believe that they can live with all that happening, I'd say feel free to not wear protective gear. Tis their funeral, and judging from statistics (admittedly dodgy, tis online), the Americans have a much higher crash fatality rate, per capita of motorbike riders, than us, by FAR

Ragingrob

23rd June 2009, 14:14

"Knowing" that you will crash... Why would you wanna "know" that?!

Knowing that there's a high probability that you will be involved in a crash is fine, but there is nothing definite about crashing.

Wouldn't you rather be that 1% that never crashes in their life?

Sure we want to prepare for whatever may happen, but we aren't preparing for the inevitable.

Not everybody crashes, so it is not definite that you will crash.

Squiggles

23rd June 2009, 20:04

the simple statistics show that if I obey EVERY rule, drive carefully, avoid crazy drivers, at some point I will still crash...........

Pah, you'd like to live your life being a statistic then? Last i checked nobody was guaranteed to have an accident ;)

Its interesting the comment re gear. Its not guaranteed to save you, its there in an attempt to reduce the chance of injury. Believing it will save you is a bit overconfident :)

Ragingrob

23rd June 2009, 20:08

Just like Kerrie from MSW said to me... "All you're doing is buying the panels to put around your chassis as if in a car".

Slyer

23rd June 2009, 21:48

Buying an extra layer of skin and ruining that is a lot easier than growing your own back, simple as that.

Real_Wolf

23rd June 2009, 22:24

heh, rather not be a statistic, however I'd definetely bank on the 'more likely to' case of wearing protective gear. It might not save you, but your alot more likely to be saved with it than without

SARGE

23rd June 2009, 22:42

ive been riding since 1972 or 73... ( farm bikes .. mini bikes .. dirt bikes .. blah blah) been off a few times and most of them were sans gear.. few scuffs and a broken bone or 2 but i lived..

i have been riding in NZ since 2002.. off 3 times total here (one my fault) and been hurt worse WEARING gear than without

sure .. the leather , gloves, sturdy boots, helmet and bubble wrap will help the coroner ID your body easily, it does NOT guarantee you will come out unharmed.. how many KB'rs have been killed on the roads here while wearing full gear?.. didnt seem to help them did it?

our roads in the US are better maintained .. better designed and better constructed than the ones ive ridden in NZ.. dont take alot to figure out that shit roads (loose metal, potholes, tar snakes, off-camber corners, horse shit etc) will hurt more bikers than lack of gear..

Squiggles

23rd June 2009, 23:05

Oooh, seems we now have our own ATGATT debate thread :O

SARGE

23rd June 2009, 23:11

10 whatevers

Motu

23rd June 2009, 23:14

Anyone who's had at off at even 50kph will see our point of view.

I've crashed plenty of times at over 50kph with no helmet,no gloves,denim jacket,jeans and sneakers.I have all my limbs,no scars,and like Sarge have only died when no one was watching.Good gears good,very good - but lack of it is not a death sentence.

Squiggles

23rd June 2009, 23:16

10 whatevers

End of the day its a persons choice, a calculated risk. Most've seen my gear... i believe rob has some pictures :crazy: (Homo honda rider!) I feel for those who are oblivious to the potential consequences, and as such pick an option they otherwise might not have. :yes:

Danae

23rd June 2009, 23:19

I bought the gear, may as well use it

Road rash looks painful

limbimtimwim

23rd June 2009, 23:21

our roads in the US are better maintained .. better designed and better constructed than the ones ive ridden in NZ.. dont take alot to figure out that shit roads (loose metal, potholes, tar snakes, off-camber corners, horse shit etc) will hurt more bikers than lack of gear..I disagree with you! Some roads are far better, but I think on average NZ roads are actually better than US roads. I was quite surprised by this, but there you go.

When did you last go home? The bad roads in the US seem to be a maintenance issue, not a design issue. The design of the road is almost always better.

Real_Wolf

24th June 2009, 00:49

When you go flying into another vehicle from a crash, or along the road, or into a building, whatever, should your head not be concussed thanks to a helmet, the gear just helped you.

Should the bruise be lessened by the cushioning from some of the armour, the gear just helped you.

Should the pressure disappated upon your elbow, shoulder, or back be spread over a larger surface, providing less instantaneous force due to the change in momentum, then the gear just helped you.

You can crash with gear and die, you can crash without gear and not get hurt. That doesn't mean that either is 'correct' or 'wrong', it simply is a fact of statistics. There is always one person who can get crushed under railway tracks and live.

The bigger points are the actual tests done to determine the impact pressures upon a 'dummy' which has a similar density and size to a regular person. Using this, it can be shown that the pressure exerted on various body parts that armour protects, is significantly decreased. Often from the point of a critical injury to that of one which is no longer life threatening/limb losing/paralyzing.

SARGE

24th June 2009, 07:05

I disagree with you! Some roads are far better, but I think on average NZ roads are actually better than US roads. I was quite surprised by this, but there you go.

When did you last go home? The bad roads in the US seem to be a maintenance issue, not a design issue. The design of the road is almost always better.

I was back home a year ago March.. the Federal Gubbment is responsible for maintaining the interstates and the States are responsible for the numbered highways in each state. paid for by fuel taxes and property taxes.

granted, with the meltdown over there .. maintenance may have slipped in the last year due to funding shortfalls, but for the most part , they are all hotmix.. NOT chipseal

Squiggles

24th June 2009, 08:51

Blah

And? Are you procrastinating about study :lol:

macros87

24th June 2009, 10:13

i forgot i had even opened this thread, busy with holiday and all :p the roads thing... seems to be mostly true... depends on were you are going high ways and city roads and very well maintained...

the gear thing was just an observation.. i am about freedom of choice as well, if they want to wear nothing they should... i just thought it was interesting that so many people out here make that choice, compared to new zealand. thats all i was trying to say, but jetlag had made me completely unable to articulate sentences...

16silver

24th June 2009, 12:50

my 2 cents :P everybody has and are entitled to their own opinions, mine is that if u crash Ur probably gonna break something, and if you're wearing gear your skin is saved and takes weeks off healing time so that i can get back on a bike quicker, also gloves save your palm from being spliced by rocks etc making u unable to grip a handle bar when the tendon is cut and cant heal in the same way that it was grown, also making it hard to pick up that bottle of vodka or beer etc, im just happy that i was wearing gear when i had my crash, it saved my life, i would have no ear, and a split artery in my neck, hand and knees if i had not been wearing gear, i would have had wayyyy more grazed knees if i wasnt wearing normal jeans, i have since upgraded to kevlar, you cant put a price on your safety :) im glad that i wear gear

SPman

24th June 2009, 13:14

Oh and the other during my morning commute (raining) I saw someone on a scooter in boardshorts. I assume the logic was that he'd just get wet and when he got to work change into dry clothing.
Saw a guy on a KTM in the rain on the Great Eastern by the Roe highway, in shorts and work shirt only, last night. Heavy traffic, knobbies and greasy road surface - didn't seem to faze him none.....

Racer X

24th June 2009, 21:17

It's because of our stupid nanny state mentality that rules everything we do. The US has it right in suggesting that maybe, just perhaps people CAN think for themselves.

Phurrball

24th June 2009, 23:01

It's because of our stupid nanny state mentality that rules everything we do. The US has it right in suggesting that maybe, just perhaps people CAN think for themselves.

In very few words: In the US, the State does not pick up the pieces via ACC...

You're on your own if you turn yourself into man-mush and survive.

Choice is all good - but it has consequences.

Look at the amount motorcyclists pay in ACC premiums as part of vehicle licensing.

Squiggles

24th June 2009, 23:12

macros87

25th June 2009, 12:54

That has got to be one of the shortest posts you've ever made on such a (potentially) contentious topic. :D

i second that! phurball always have a relatively large strong sound argument to share with all of us, which is why i dont mess with you... and i usually agree like now.. it is just very stupid in this country to not have comprehensive health insurance as opposed to nz where acc covers all accidents.. so i guess if they have covered themselves in that way... them maybe they are not completely irresponsible... regardless of helmet less gloveless jacket-less shenanigans

motorbyclist

25th June 2009, 18:22

Believe it or not you don't have to crash and you can ride accordingly to minimize your chances considerably. Most noobi's on here are of the opinion that you "have" to crash when learning and that you will crash yearly after that. It's not true guys and gals......

considering that about 90 minutes ago, riding home in auckland's rush hour, I had a sum total of FOUR near misses from people doing stupid things, in only a 20km trip, I'd say the chances of having an off aren't that bad. BUT, having avoided rush hour for the last few months, i can say that travelling at different times of day greatly improves your odds. Usually I'll have no trouble at all for over a week,

yes they were "only" near misses, but over there they have driver training to help avoid things like sharing a lane with a motorcycle. and they get sued. and they are required to have insurance.

America still believes in freedom of choice I believe. .

we DO have the freedom to choose - the only legal requirement is a certified helmet. It just so happens most NZ bikers wear gloves and jacket with that. Oddly, the scooter riders (and newbie bikers) out there don't do the same thing. good for them - but perhaps they would wear more than miniskirt and boobtube if they fully understood the risks.

In very few words: In the US, the State does not pick up the pieces via ACC...

You're on your own if you turn yourself into man-mush and survive.

Choice is all good - but it has consequences.

Look at the amount motorcyclists pay in ACC premiums as part of vehicle licensing.

saved writing me a large post :niceone:

motorbyclist

25th June 2009, 18:31

so, guess what i saw the other day? I suspect this is the same firestorm that was abandoned on symonds, and/or the same asian rider i talked to with about as much of a clue as a licence, as i pointed out his rear tyre was completely flat and about to de-bead. (and no he didn't realise)

I can also confirm that on this fancy soup bowl was not ONE recognisable safety cert, nor anything in english.

Yes, kids, OUR acc levies are going to pay for HIS idiocy. (actually they might not if he's an international student, but the stats will still count against us)

EDIT: good to see he's god crash knobs on the bike though! suppose wounds heal and bikes cost money?

Dare

4th July 2009, 18:35

ital916

12th July 2009, 21:56

Much the same in Oz.....shorts, t-shirts, jandels, I saw crocs the other day! But the one thing that gets me is no gloves.....screw that! They are the first thing you put down, how you gonna wipe your ass??

If you ever fall off and lose your hands..Ill wipe your ass for you.

I am a bad, bad man....bad drider.:spanking:

considering that about 90 minutes ago, riding home in auckland's rush hour, I had a sum total of FOUR near misses from people doing stupid things, in only a 20km trip, I'd say the chances of having an off aren't that bad. BUT, having avoided rush hour for the last few months, i can say that travelling at different times of day greatly improves your odds. Usually I'll have no trouble at all for over a week,

yes they were "only" near misses, but over there they have driver training to help avoid things like sharing a lane with a motorcycle. and they get sued. and they are required to have insurance.

we DO have the freedom to choose - the only legal requirement is a certified helmet. It just so happens most NZ bikers wear gloves and jacket with that. Oddly, the scooter riders (and newbie bikers) out there don't do the same thing. good for them - but perhaps they would wear more than miniskirt and boobtube if they fully understood the risks.

saved writing me a large post :niceone:

Once you accept near misses occur and put them out of mind when they do occur life becomes happier.

Dont worry, be happy....you all know the words!

so, guess what i saw the other day? I suspect this is the same firestorm that was abandoned on symonds, and/or the same asian rider i talked to with about as much of a clue as a licence, as i pointed out his rear tyre was completely flat and about to de-bead. (and no he didn't realise)

I can also confirm that on this fancy soup bowl was not ONE recognisable safety cert, nor anything in english.

Yes, kids, OUR acc levies are going to pay for HIS idiocy. (actually they might not if he's an international student, but the stats will still count against us)

EDIT: good to see he's god crash knobs on the bike though! suppose wounds heal and bikes cost money?

Meh....lets all take a big breath and say it together...MEH. He wants to ride with a shorty on...his choice. Im over trying to battle for lower acc levies...I just pay them.

motorbyclist

12th July 2009, 22:02

Over 300 bucks for a 12 month rego now..... soon we wont even be able to afford gear!

ital916

12th July 2009, 22:03

In very few words: In the US, the State does not pick up the pieces via ACC...

You're on your own if you turn yourself into man-mush and survive.

Choice is all good - but it has consequences.

Look at the amount motorcyclists pay in ACC premiums as part of vehicle licensing.

Well you cant spell america without freedom can ya :bleh:.

Good on them yankies, do whatever the hell they like.

I quite like the ACC system though. Has gotten me patched up when the shit has hit the fan. What I dont like is the price if said premiums, there has got to be a better way of calcualting it...as legal advisor please explain to us lay folk the reasoning behind such high levies for m/c. What bullshit statistics do they use to justify them?

Over 300 bucks for a 12 month rego now..... soon we wont even be able to afford gear!

Tell me about it...my rego, wof and insurance bills just came in. I almost had a stroke.

Real_Wolf

12th July 2009, 23:22

crap, i gotta buy rego soon, 300 bucks is a rip off

ital916

13th July 2009, 08:11

Haha thanks for multiquoting my posts whoever you are mysterious kiwibiker avenger.....defeating posting errors in secret.