Water-cooled motors? [Archive]

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mohawk

29th June 2009, 18:19

What bikes run the same motors?
like is a zpf motor the same as a b1,b2 or 911?
are all engines based on polini originals?
Are all reverse engines the same?
Dont realy care whats internal, just wana know what bolts into what.

crazyhorse

29th June 2009, 18:22

imdying

29th June 2009, 18:36

No, ZPF will not bolt into a B1.

Z1_ZPF_BOY

29th June 2009, 20:02

Imdying is correct. A zpf motor is a BZM rep and b1's and b2's use blata reps. Banshee SCO (blata elite rep) also use blata reps. The GRC reps, GP3 reps, dream bike reps and the Banshee SHO use polini rep engines. I believe with no or little modification a Polini rep will fit in a zpf. also there is a air cooled engine that can fit in a b1/b2. And most chinese reverse engines are polini rep. GRC, GP3 Banshee SHO are reverse.

Hope this helps

Connor

Gadgit

29th June 2009, 20:04

ZPF runs the same engine as the late model Banchiee
911 rep runs the same engine as the old model banchiee
B1 B2 and other blata reps run the same engine.
All reverse engines are the same and fitted to GP3 rep, GRC rep and a few odd ball 911 reps.
Polini copys are 911/Banchiee (series 2 copy) and reverse engine
Blata copys are B1
ZPF copy is just that a ZPF rep

Interchangable parts... the series 2 copy and reverse engines top end is the same and genuine polini barrel/piston kits fit also.

mohawk

29th June 2009, 20:40

Oky doky, without mods, would anyone care to rate the motors in order of power/speed given the same gearing ? (Gregs B2s are same motor as Zpf ?)

Gadgit

30th June 2009, 19:30

Ok this is a fiddly question to answer but here goes
Reverse rep engine would be the most agressive power out of the box
ZPF rep engine would be the next
B2 as most have a 47cc engine they are better then the
B1 which is 39.8cc
B1 air cooled slightly less then the water cooled
Polini rep engine fitted to the 911 would come in last because they had a restrictor in the expansion chamber and run a daytona clutch but when fitted with a B1 clutch and expansion chamber opened up is as good as a B1 engine. and easyer to mod with bolt on polini parts.

mohawk

30th June 2009, 20:34

Are the reverse engines 39cc ? if so are 49cc kits available?

Gadgit

30th June 2009, 20:41

Standed 3 port 39.8. There is a 50 kit for the rep. I run a 5 port 40cc polini kit on my rep engine.

racefactory

24th October 2009, 20:32

sorry to bump this thread up but this is where it belongs.

gadgit your list of engines there is interesting. how does the reverse rep provide the most power out of the box? being a 40cc what is the advantage of the 'reverse design'?

i know the b1 engines are not the best in terms of little end bearings blowing, but what about these rep engines of the grc etc? id like to know more about them please.

daz71

24th October 2009, 20:36

hi where can i get a 50 kit from and do you know a cost thanks. can i go to edgecume for just one day to race this weekend ?

racefactory

24th October 2009, 20:46

hi where can i get a 50 kit from and do you know a cost thanks. can i go to edgecume for just one day to race this weekend ?

http://xminimoto.co.nz/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=28_36&products_id=39

here is a 50 kit for the b1

mohawk

24th October 2009, 21:41

hi where can i get a 50 kit from and do you know a cost thanks. can i go to edgecume for just one day to race this weekend ?

Yea man, everyone welcome there. Come to Tam tomorow if you want aswell.

daz71

24th October 2009, 21:45

Yea man, everyone welcome there. Come to Tam tomorow if you want aswell.

Would love to mate but got other things on .but keen as in the future.

Gadgit

26th October 2009, 07:51

gadgit your list of engines there is interesting. how does the reverse rep provide the most power out of the box? being a 40cc what is the advantage of the 'reverse design'?

The reverse engine as fitted to the GP3 Rep runs a 2:1 reduction gear set within the engine this gives more toque to the out put pinion. It also runs a decent expansion chamber and a twin spark cdi ignition system. The reduction gears allow the fixed gearing to be allot different to the conventional pocket bike engine, ie the front sprocket size starts at 10 tooth through to 12 tooth and the rear 45 through to 60, runs the same size chain as the others but takes less effort to go round 10 teeth then it dose 6-7 teeth so theres another advantage. The porting isn't bad out of the box and the chassis handles well. So the whole package out of the box is quicker then most. Common faults same as B1 the small end bearing can give up but none of mine have yet. The starter can give problems if you just pull it's guts out without pulling up to compression first. The headder pipe cracks but then alot of others do to and a quick weld fixes that problem. I have found most GP3 and GRC reps out of the box run too lean and can cause seazure so I have always fitted a larger jet as a precaution. Parts are no problem as the engines and bikes are coming more common.

Hope that answers your Q

Gadgit

26th October 2009, 07:55

Hay Daz, They'll be keen as to see ya at Edgecoumbe on either day next weekend (sunday would be best for a whole days racing). And I'll have a yarn to Damo and try to get another day in Waihi set up with better weather this time lol

daz71

26th October 2009, 17:27

Whats wrong with our weather lol ,but yeah see you there.

racefactory

27th October 2009, 11:49

BigAl

27th October 2009, 13:09

i definately dont think these are worth over 400....

Ridden one?

Z1_ZPF_BOY

27th October 2009, 15:40

guys why is the gp3 from xtreme so expensive? trademe one is 300 bucks cheaper, what the hell? i definately dont think these are worth over 400....

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Pocket-pit-bikes/auction-248164203.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Pocket-pit-bikes/auction-249491868.htm

The better money you pay the better the quality. The guy on trademe is out to make a quick buck, going through Greg from Xtreme ensures quality and customer service, sure you could buy a bike for $400, but if it breaks your in trouble, so why not buy one for $699 and feel the satisfaction that you have brought a quality product and that if anything does happen (VERY UNLIKELY) that you will have quick and painless help and advice.

Talk to Greg and see what he says. They are more expensive for a reason.

imdying

27th October 2009, 16:05

guys why is the gp3 from xtreme so expensive? trademe one is 300 bucks cheaper, what the hell? i definately dont think these are worth over 400....I've seen those $400 ones, they go pretty good, and don't seem to be made any worse than the B1s. The guys down here who have them have been at the minimoto game for a fair while now, and rate them above all the other Chinese bikes they've had.

I do not have one, but I would buy one if I were looking for another water cooled bike.

From what I've seen of Chinese pocketbikes, there definitely appears to be no point paying more than you need to, as they're all crap in some way, and all appear to come from the same factories, no matter what sales blurb you've been given. That's just my opinion, but I honestly don't think it's worth paying more for any particular model if it's available elsewhere for less. I've seen sites that purport to having better this that or the other things on their particular bikes, but I don't buy that... sure they might have some parts that comes from a better end of the grading bins, but a piece of shite is still a piece of shite.

Now, having said that, they invariably have problems and niggles that need sorting out, your extra $300 hopefully will buy you a bike where somebody else has done that work for you. Or not, that's your money and your risk.

Given how easy they are to work on, you might as well keep that extra $300, buy some nice tyres, and use the balance to fix any niggles it has.

DELLORTO

27th October 2009, 18:08

B1's are going to cause trouble no-matter where they come from.....except greg isnt going to do a runner with your money.......if you want a decent bike jason might sell you my old polini or one of kelly's modded daytona's [very fast}

racefactory

28th October 2009, 00:06

Ridden one?

many times, had 2 B1 bikes, one blinding fast... ported, 19mm carb, squish set to 0.5mm, custom exhaust, sava tyres with brakes good enough to lift the back end from top speed. can safely say they are definately not worth too much over 400... they are chinese shit, period.

The guy on trademe is out to make a quick buck, going through Greg from Xtreme ensures quality and customer service, sure you could buy a bike for $400, but if it breaks your in trouble

Sorry man, i hear what you are saying but in my opinion Imdying knows what he is talking about here- the bottom line is these are all just chinese pieces of junk. No point spending more money elsewhere. I was in fact thinking that it has different specs that weren't listed, maybe gregs one has a different carb or he's got some quality brake levers on them, maybe some porting or a set of decent rubber on it.

Would love to buy from greg as i know he is a decent guy, done trades with him before, but the difference in price really got me wondering what's up, that's all.

BigAl

28th October 2009, 07:17

many times, had 2 B1 bikes

My point is you probably haven't ridden a GP3 rep, then you'd know the answer.

And yes I know all about Jasons B1 rep but the GP3/GRC reps are quite different esp in the torque they produce.

imdying

28th October 2009, 08:08

I was in fact thinking that it has different specs that weren't listed, maybe gregs one has a different carb or he's got some quality brake levers on them, maybe some porting or a set of decent rubber on it.Could very well be, it would be worth asking him.

racefactory

28th October 2009, 10:47

whats the compatibility like of real polini parts on the reverse rep engine?

imdying

28th October 2009, 12:16

Give Punter69 a message, he has one.

xtreme

28th October 2009, 12:56

Hi Guys

Just something about the pricing on these bikes.It depends on alot of things-
Exchange rate
when you buy them (mine were the first reps so they charged more for them)
shipping costs ( costs me an extra $500 from Auck to Wgtn ).
You import things to make some money.
Lots of things , if i sold these for $400 i would be losing over $150 per bike.
The ones for sale on trade me have no garantee and the seller says they are end of line. I know that some people are topping up there containers and are filling the gap with these and flicking them off for minimal profit.
I dont claim that any of my products are better than others but i do endevour to have most spares in stock for what i sell.
They do still sell for these prices as I sold one of these last week for $650 and i think some of our results show that we know how to make these bikes
work. Just like your old yellow B1 you had Trademe900.
I dont make heaps out of it , its an intrest for me and i like the sport.

I hope this answers some of your questions , if not just ask and i will try to answer them for you.

Cheers Greg

{.bLanK}G_o_D

28th October 2009, 13:16

whats the compatibility like of real polini parts on the reverse rep engine?

If it is anything like the B1, Good. I have multiple genuine Blata bits in my motor now, just about everything fits. Chinks did a pretty good job in duplicating the B1. Not mentioning quality. Don't get me started.

As for Greg at xminimoto I am not particularly happy at all with the service I obtained from him. Many many phone calls were made in the pursuit of my parts, accurate quotes couldn't be given to me on a BZM crank I ordered until it passed through NZ customs, but payment was asked for before the order would be placed.

I understand the reason he gave me for why my parts took so long, (approx 4 months, paid for in advance) but it's no excuse. We showed our intent on spending a lot of money at xminimoto, we should have been treated as valuable customers. If his supplier was taking too long he should have sourced the parts elsewhere to honor his sale and keep his customer happy.
So now I get most of my minimoto gear from Australia. Darren at Ozminimoto is very professional with his business. He's in the same boat as Greg as in it's just an on the side business as he is an enthusiast.
On a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest) i grade the following minimoto parts dealers I have personally dealt with as follows.

Dealer-----------------------Dealings---------------Country-----------------Grade
Pannons---------------------1-----------------------Canada------------------8
Ozminimoto-----------------Dozon or so-----------Australia----------------10
Pocket Racing Bikes--------1-----------------------Australia----------------8
Pocket Bike Passion--------1-----------------------Italy?--------------------8
Pocket Bike Parts.com.au--2----------------------Australia-----------------7
Newmanz--------------------3----------------------NZ------------------------7
Xminimoto-------------------2----------------------NZ------------------------3

Shit I've brought a crap load of minimoto parts lol.

BigAl

28th October 2009, 13:55

Although this thread is off the topic, I'd put my hand up in support of Xtreme/Xminimoto

A few reasons, 1) they have supported and run minimoto events and not just imported and sold gear w/o any understanding of the bikes/sport. 2) They have always gone out of their way to help when parts are not right or fail. 3)They are local so I can get (common parts) usually within a week. 4) their prices are competitive.

Saying that I have also had good dealing with Newmans and Oz and no I'm not sponsored by anyone.:crybaby:

{.bLanK}G_o_D

28th October 2009, 16:53

Maybe I was a bit harsh.
When I did speak to Greg he sounded like a pretty easy going dude.
I have nothing against the man personally at all, and by the looks of some comments around, a lot of his customers are happy. Just from my experience I was not.

xtreme

28th October 2009, 17:09

Hi Guys

It was unfortunate the time delay out of china for your stuff Phill and you knew 1 supplier couldnt supply what you wanted , so i had to find the cash ( Prepay reason ) to order from another. Out of my hands was that.
There was alot of stuff I myself was waiting for as well.

Anyway its all good now and i APPRECIATE EVERYONES comments whether good or bad , which we are of course entitled to.

Happy Minimoto Racing

Cheers Greg

Z1_ZPF_BOY

28th October 2009, 17:17

orange

28th October 2009, 20:27

funny thing that gp3 motor, seen alot of them, early generation and later. My money is on early ones - U could end up with a $400 pushbike in one to two good rides.

mohawk

28th October 2009, 20:34

Can you go into more detail Jason?

racefactory

29th October 2009, 00:53

Can you go into more detail Jason?

yes please do.

And also how to tell if it is a early generation or a later one?