Heat pumps are shit!

[Molly]

What's the f*****g point of having a heating system that f*****g defrosts (so stops working) as soon as it gets to six f*****g degrees outside?

For f**k sake!

[YellowDog]

Jet Pumps are great.

Your one is not.

[Laxi]

had that problem! depends on what make you buy, had a warehouse 1, the company that instaled it, came back and fitted a part (about $250) havn't had the problem since

[newbould]

Chill out Molly:sunny::soon:

[ducatilover]

What's the f*****g point of having a heating system that f*****g defrosts (so stops working) as soon as it gets to six f*****g degrees outside?

For f**k sake!

Daiken heat pumps don't do that. Hit the thing with a fuckin hammer.

[merv]

Yeah so what brand you dissing Molly?

[Mom]

Six degrees is the new tropics?

Best you get the man back mate :yes:

[Kiwi Graham]

Got Fujitsu, noooooooo problems oh and a six year warranty :yes:

[Jantar]

Our Mitsibushi doesn't do that either. But then again, it does lose efficiency once the outside temperature drops below 0 and is totally ineffective once it gets to -10.

[Pussy]

The metro log burner works REAL well!

[R6_kid]

move to a warmer climate... works for me :sunny:

[LBD]

I dislike heat pumps for a different reason....theres always a draft. Radiators for me...brilliant.

[hayd3n]

heats pumps work great

ital all about location
my m8 got his compressor unit installed in his garage no drama neva defrosts there
shit our old panasonic one are like 15yo and still pump out the heat at 2degrees its 25c atm here

[Molly]

We've got an old Daiken (sp?) that works quite well but this new Fujitsu.... It's newly fitted by the way, though the outside unit has already had to be replaced under warranty (that one would defrost every 20 mins). There's been an army of engineers through here and it hasn't made a lot of difference.

[oldrider]

What's the f*****g point of having a heating system that f*****g defrosts (so stops working) as soon as it gets to six f*****g degrees outside?

For f**k sake!

Quite agree with you Molly, is the defrost drain clear? if it is, get the unit checked!

We have two Daikins and they behave pretty well to about minus 10 C.

It's been quite warm this winter so have not tested them below -10C

They do act up a bit if the humidity is high though, defrosting too frequently.

We run the Yunka with a low lasting fire (for hot water) and regulate the house temp with one of the heat pumps, works OK for us! :yes:

[325rocket]

Got Fujitsu, noooooooo problems oh and a six year warranty :yes:

same here ... fantastic, its like hawaii in here

[blossomsowner]

we run a metro fire...........its shorts and a tee shirt all winter long here.........all the free firewood i can burn.

[onearmedbandit]

Mitsubishi make one that works to -16.

[Rayray401]

Had no idea heat pumps were that popular..we just stick with the fireplace, heater and blankets :whistle:

[The Stranger]

we run a metro fire...........its shorts and a tee shirt all winter long here.........all the free firewood i can burn.

Open fire place.
I live on a hill, so what if Greenland melts - I'll have a beach front property.

[James Deuce]

No, your heat pump is shit. Research before you buy and buy one that will work at the coldest recorded temperature for where you live.

[sels1]

Got the built in gas fire so always toasty here. But otherwise I would install a heat pump. Most important thing about them is the design - you have to get the right size and type for your situation. Heat load calculations etc should be done. If you buy one from an appliance store and have it installed by a local electrician (nothing against sparkies, mind) you could have issues - Design and instalation by experienced refrigeration/HVAC engineers is a better option.

[Molly]

What if I provide the outside unit with better protection from the elements? The Daiken is in a sheltered spot whilst the Fujitsu is more exposed.

[Blackbird]

same here ... fantastic, its like hawaii in here

Yep, no complaints whatsoever with our 6.5 kw Fujitsu.

[James Deuce]

Got the built in gas fire so always toasty here. But otherwise I would install a heat pump. Most important thing about them is the design - you have to get the right size and type for your situation. Heat load calculations etc should be done. If you buy one from an appliance store and have it installed by a local electrician (nothing against sparkies, mind) you could have issues - Design and instalation by experienced refrigeration/HVAC engineers is a better option.

Bingo! We got a ventilation kit and the heat pump specced at the same time and the combination has been brilliant.

[doc]

Are these heat pumps very expensive to run, and what sort of servicing costs are there ? Cost of woodburner in Waikato at daughters house ended up costing nearly 5k :shit: and now there is the cost of wood. She reckons if she did it over again she would go heatpump.

[Genestho]

6.5 kw output Panasonic here, it's just like I'm in Brisbane with the temp being 30 degrees, this morning LOL!:sunny:

[rainman]

Harden up, the lot of you! :dodge:

[smokeyging]

Are these heat pumps very expensive to run, and what sort of servicing costs are there ? Cost of woodburner in Waikato at daughters house ended up costing nearly 5k :shit: and now there is the cost of wood. She reckons if she did it over again she would go heatpump.



We have’nt noticed our heatpump expensive to run when you bring into account what it can cost to keep warm. we've had our heatpump for 5 years and all we have done to it is clean the filters in it ourselves. so no real servicing costs. as for your daughters log burner, the good thing about them is if the power goes off you can still keep warm.

[James Deuce]

Are these heat pumps very expensive to run, and what sort of servicing costs are there ? Cost of woodburner in Waikato at daughters house ended up costing nearly 5k :shit: and now there is the cost of wood. She reckons if she did it over again she would go heatpump.

No. Our power bill has dropped by $150/month in winter.

As smokeyging said, just clean the filters and keep the outside unit clear of undergrowth.

[JimO]

Are these heat pumps very expensive to run, and what sort of servicing costs are there ? Cost of woodburner in Waikato at daughters house ended up costing nearly 5k :shit: and now there is the cost of wood. She reckons if she did it over again she would go heatpump.

that woodburner will still burn wood in a power cut, long term heatpumps cost a fortune to run were as wood is cheap

[Genestho]

Agreed, my bill has dropped significantly too! And yet I turn it on for as long and as frequent as required!:love:

[Kiwi Graham]

I have three! cant say I have noticed much difference in the power bill, certainly alot cheaper than buying 5-6mtrs of wood each winter.
However they are shit in a power cut........got a gas fire for those times :yes:

[Blackbird]

Are these heat pumps very expensive to run, and what sort of servicing costs are there ? Cost of woodburner in Waikato at daughters house ended up costing nearly 5k :shit: and now there is the cost of wood. She reckons if she did it over again she would go heatpump.

I think it cost us about $3000 all up to buy and have our Fujitsu 6.5 kw pump installed about 2 years ago. Would have been a tad cheaper but we had a wiring upgrade done at the same time. As others have said, they're relatively cheap to run. Saved about $80/month compared with when we used a fan heater and oil radiator in the winter. Really nice on really humid summer evenings too, turned down to 18-20 degrees!

We had a woodburner for 20 years in Tokoroa and were tempted to do the same in Coromandel but we just couldn't be bothered to stack wood and do all the flue cleaning as we got older. Haven't regretted it either.

[p.dath]

that woodburner will still burn wood in a power cut, long term heatpumps cost a fortune to run were as wood is cheap

Hydro generated power is generally much cheaper than wood.

Domestic heat pumps tend to need very little maintenance. Fire places usually need annual flue cleans and inspections, regular cleaning, and then there is the effort to actually get the fuel.

And the last clincher, there are very few heat pump related fires (never heard of any in fact), as compared to units that rely on burning wood (which is my many councils will no longer allow fireplaces to be installed).

[Jantar]

We have both a heat pump and a wood burner. We find that using the wood burner through winter and the heat pump in spring and autumn (or air conditioning in summer) works out the best.

The wood burner is a metro that is 14 kW equivilent, and we burn a bout $500 worth of wood per year.

The heat pump is a 6.3 kW Mitsibushi that only takes 2.5 kW to run, so that is around $0.60 per hour. Quite cheap when its only for a few hours per day, but much dearer than wood when its required for more than 8 hours per day.

[scumdog]

Heat pump and wood-burner here.

Use about $100 worth of bought wood plus what we get ourselves each year.

Heat pump goes 24/7 when we're home or off during the day while we're at work.

Affordable and the air-con in summer is a blessing.

[Blackbird]

Affordable and the air-con in summer is a blessing.

You mean when Balclutha reaches 10 degrees C, Tom? :innocent::innocent:

[peasea]

We've got an old Daiken (sp?) that works quite well but this new Fujitsu.... It's newly fitted by the way, though the outside unit has already had to be replaced under warranty (that one would defrost every 20 mins). There's been an army of engineers through here and it hasn't made a lot of difference.

I look after about two dozen Fujitsu's, I'd never buy one. We also have two that do just what you described in your first post, just lemons. We also experienced compressor failure (under warranty) in one and a few fans vibrate through the roof. Bloody annoying. While I have fixed some of this by remounting some units there are a couple that just won't shut up.

I much prefer a box fire, free-standing preferably. They work in a power cut too.

[Molly]

I look after about two dozen Fujitsu's, I'd never buy one. We also have two that do just what you described in your first post, just lemons. We also experienced compressor failure (under warranty) in one and a few fans vibrate through the roof. Bloody annoying. While I have fixed some of this by remounting some units there are a couple that just won't shut up.

I much prefer a box fire, free-standing preferably. They work in a power cut too.

Peasea. Can I ask if it matters how exposed the external unit is? My Daiken one is in a sheltered area whilst the Fujitsu is more exposed. Will it defrost less if it's protected more?

[laRIKin]

Will it defrost less if it's protected more?

It has more to do with how hard the pump is working.
If the unit is working hard it will frost up more.
There for has to de-frost to clear, to work again.
It sounds like you have a unit that is to small for your needs.

PM me more info and I will check at work for you.
I will needed to know exactly what it is doing and what model it is and what size area you are trying to heat.

I work for a Heat Pump firm, but are new to heat pumps and will ask one of the Tech's

[peasea]

Peasea. Can I ask if it matters how exposed the external unit is? My Daiken one is in a sheltered area whilst the Fujitsu is more exposed. Will it defrost less if it's protected more?

Sometimes a bit of airflow from sitting in a slightly more exposed spot can prevent frosting. Unfortunately it's often the aesthetics of the installation that rules.

Oddly, we have four in a row up on the roof in one installation and the unit that drops into 'defrost' just when you don't need it (8.30-9.00am) is the first one to get the sun on it. Because of the contract I have to get the team in and they can't figure it.

[dangerous]

Chill out Molly:sunny::soon:... I think thats what he is trying to do, bloody poms ;)

[Molly]

Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated and thanks for the offer of help. First I'll try not asking quite so much of it and see if that helps (works with the wife...).

[Max Preload]

It sounds like you have a unit that is to small for your needs.

That's exactly what I was going to say.

[Voltaire]

I supply and install Mitsubishi Electric ( as opposed to Mitsubishi Heavy Industries). They are very good if sized and installed correctly.
Older heatpumps run on R22 and compared to the newer R 410a and are junk.
I ( foolishly) when working for York bought Luxaire (Warehouse) units....they are rubbish...anything below 10 degrees and the heat output is pathetic.
Still...they were cheap but you forget the cost when something does not work properly.

Mitsubishi....I have measure 50 degrees plus air off with a frost outside.
Installation: make sure your installer at least has a vacuum pump...if not it voids the warranty.
Pipe work should be pressure tested and vacced to under 500 microns to ensure long compressor life.
Larger units should have a dedicated power circuit.
Only a registred electrician can install new fixed wiring, and supply a Compliance Certificate.

[Molly]

Thanks for that detailed reply. I'm quite sure ours is bigger than we need for the area we're heating but one side of the room is just glass (wall and part of ceiling) so maybe it's fighting all that single-glazing.

Oh well, soon be summer...

[Winston001]

It sounds like you have a unit that is to small for your needs.....



Ooeerr that's a bit personal init?? :blink: The size of Molly's unit is a private matter surely..... :devil2:

[laRIKin]

Ooeerr that's a bit personal init?? :blink: The size of Molly's unit is a private matter surely..... :devil2:

Yeah, well, I think all men think their unit should be bigger.
More power and all that.(think Tim the tool man)

[doc]

Yeah, well, I think all men think their unit should be bigger.
More power and all that.(think Tim the tool man)

Sort of like cc envy Ive always wanted the bigger model. But if you aint got big enough heat pump, from what I understand you will feel its inadequate. :confused:

[laRIKin]

Sort of like cc envy Ive always wanted the bigger model. But if you aint got big enough heat pump, from what I understand you will feel its inadequate. :confused:

Exactly.
You must feel sorry for those that feel inadequate.
The pointing and laughing is so cruel. (but fun)

The only thing that you can brag that is small, is your Cell Phone.

[TimeOut]

heats pumps work great

ital all about location
my m8 got his compressor unit installed in his garage no drama neva defrosts there

My Uncle had to shift his out of the garage, it kept on freezeing his cars.

Just put in a Panasonic E12 5kw to assist a log burner and for autumn / spring. Best thing we ever did.
$2050 all up pump $1550 installation $500

[javawocky]

heated grips here, don't cost anything to heat... :laugh:

No seriously, got my quote from MHI agents and waiting for my install in the middle of next month :sunny:

Should not defrost as dis is da Dorklands :sunny:

[digsaw]

Yep first sign of frost and it turns into an iceberg,umm i think us kiwis have been conned big time and it about time we got togeather an tar an feathered a few of the pricks that sold this shit to us:2guns:

[oldrider]

Yep first sign of frost and it turns into an iceberg,umm i think us kiwis have been conned big time and it about time we got togeather an tar an feathered a few of the pricks that sold this shit to us:2guns:

We don't feel conned,we really only had the heat pumps installed to cover the between season periods!

Like when it's not worth starting the fire but yet too cold not to!

So far they have excelled our expectations and not much change in running costs.

[Max Preload]

Yep first sign of frost and it turns into an iceberg,umm i think us kiwis have been conned big time and it about time we got togeather an tar an feathered a few of the pricks that sold this shit to us:2guns:

I think you actually need to know something about what you're commenting on before casting aspersions... oh, no... wait! This is KB! As you were...    :whistle:

[Hoon]

Heat pumps rock. Got one installed earlier in the year. Now we don't even realize it's winter until we go outside. Costs about $100-150 per month electricity though at 18C 24x7.

[renegade master]

Put. A. Jumper. On.

[Finn]

It's quite amasing to see the sudden uptake of heat pumps in NZ. I went the other way and had underfloor heating installed during major refurbishment. Couldn't be bothered reading the instructions so just flicked the switch to a nice a toasty house. Just got my power bill... $1100.00. Ouch.

[digsaw]

Max Preload, when you ask for info after telling them,the supplier,waat you expect and that waat you expected is not delivered one has every right to make comments! and when you find out that the goods supplied have been dumped in NZ from Aussie and said suppliers to one of our bigger DIY and building suppliers has vanished! i expect that there is a body that should and could bring power to bare on the retailers to honour the warranty and make sure that waat they have claimed the said pumps can do.

[Max Preload]

Max Preload, when you ask for info after telling them,the supplier,waat you expect and that waat you expected is not delivered one has every right to make comments! and when you find out that the goods supplied have been dumped in NZ from Aussie and said suppliers to one of our bigger DIY and building suppliers has vanished! i expect that there is a body that should and could bring power to bare on the retailers to honour the warranty and make sure that waat they have claimed the said pumps can do.

What I gather from that is you bought a heat pump, on the cheap, from a fly-by-nighter, who undersized it and now you want the heat pump you should have bought in the first place from a reputable supplier, at no further cost to yourself. How'd I do?

[oldrider]

It's quite amasing to see the sudden uptake of heat pumps in NZ. I went the other way and had underfloor heating installed during major refurbishment. Couldn't be bothered reading the instructions so just flicked the switch to a nice a toasty house. Just got my power bill... $1100.00. Ouch.

Steady Finn, that post could make you read like your avatar, now that "would" be an OUCH! :shifty:

[Finn]

Steady Finn, that post could make you read like your avatar, now that "would" be an OUCH! :shifty:

Umm, that is me in my avatar. :(

[digsaw]

Max Preload,your a wanker thats talking shit:finger::finger:

[Max Preload]

Max Preload,your a wanker thats talking shit:finger::finger:

Spoken like a true idiot that can't even spell (it's "you're", clown) much less understand the thermodynamics of heat pumps.   :tugger:

[sels1]

What I gather from that is you bought a heat pump, on the cheap, from a fly-by-nighter, who undersized it and now you want the heat pump you should have bought in the first place from a reputable supplier, at no further cost to yourself. How'd I do?

I would say you are pretty close. No offence to Digsaw but heat pumps are not like toasters or washing machines. They have to be designed and sized to each situation. The inside unit has to be placed right for correct air distribution. The outdoor units have to be placed right, with good ventilation and exposure.(after all, thats where the heat is being pumped from)
Deal with an experienced and reputable heatpump/refrigeration company you should be ok, and will have warranty cover. But purchase cheap product off a bulk retailer, well, its buyer beware...!

[marty]

I look after about two dozen Fujitsu's, I'd never buy one. We also have two that do just what you described in your first post, just lemons. We also experienced compressor failure (under warranty) in one and a few fans vibrate through the roof. Bloody annoying. While I have fixed some of this by remounting some units there are a couple that just won't shut up.

I much prefer a box fire, free-standing preferably. They work in a power cut too.

and yet we have a 3kw fujitsu that runs 24/7 winter and summer, windows open/closed/doors open/somewhat damp environment between -4 and +35, and apart from dripping water sometimes when it's really humid, it is brilliant.

[HenryDorsetCase]

What's the f*****g point of having a heating system that f*****g defrosts (so stops working) as soon as it gets to six f*****g degrees outside?

For f**k sake!

you get what you pay for like with pretty much everything.

ours defrosts when it is MINUS 6 or so.

Its freakin fantastic. Shoulda bought it years ago. Mitsubishi Electric supplied by a reputable local firm: Beattie Airconditioning. I dont mind giving them props, they were excellent.

[peasea]

and yet we have a 3kw fujitsu that runs 24/7 winter and summer, windows open/closed/doors open/somewhat damp environment between -4 and +35, and apart from dripping water sometimes when it's really humid, it is brilliant.

I suppose it's like anything else; you get your lemons and you get your gems. I have worked in several auto dealerships over the years and you line up half a dozen of one model vehicle and there'd be a fast one in there somewhere. You also get your nice-driving ones too, you know, no squeaks and rattles etc.

I guess the one that gives me niggles is just another fouled plug in the engine of life.

[digsaw]

Ok guys, the pump was in the top 5 when brought and a choice was made on the facts given by the makers and by informed inquiry at the time.
It is a split type air conditioner with inverter, cooling 3.50kW heating 4.2kW with a range of -7c..+43c with auto defrosting, installation was done by a reputable firm. I have no complaint with the unite and the way it preforms until the outside temperature gets to 4c then it simply ices up until the fan starts hitting the ice and no heat is produced, it is heating a small lounge and should do it easy.
Was it cheap, nope it wasn't cheap, at $3000 installed and the installation price was very good and the job was done well.
Now i know that its been a rather cold winter but where i live close to the sea and the fact we might only get a frost or two per year i would have thought that what i had brought would do the job easy,its not like i live in Twizel and it seems odd to me that out there, there are many people who have heat pumps that don't do the job,now whether its a $700 or a $2700 pump it should under the ,i think Goods an Services Act or Consumers Act, it should live up to the claims of the manufacturers and if not, just like if half the cars sold if they didn't meet the claimed specs then something would be done about it.:argh:

[Max Preload]

I have no complaint with the unit and the way it preforms until the outside temperature gets to 4c then it simply ices up until the fan starts hitting the ice and no heat is produced...

Since you've now calmed down... that sounds like a fault. Have you had them back to look at it?

Who sized it & positioned it based on the house?. It's not like sizing a resistive electric heater either. You have remedies available to you under the CGA for non-performance if someone's cocked up.

[digsaw]

Well thats what i have been saying all along but you! insisted and persisted in saying it was a cheap pump on more than one occasion.:whistle:

[98tls]

We don't feel conned,we really only had the heat pumps installed to cover the between season periods!

Like when it's not worth starting the fire but yet too cold not to!

So far they have excelled our expectations and not much change in running costs. What make do you have up the road there John?Have had great Service from the Panasonic unit (6.5) over the last couple of years though have had it do the stopping thing when really cold a few times,a tad annoying:bash:though it has been colder than normal down here,had some great frosts.

[Max Preload]

Yep first sign of frost and it turns into an iceberg,umm i think us kiwis have been conned big time and it about time we got togeather an tar an feathered a few of the pricks that sold this shit to us:2guns:


Well thats what i have been saying all along but you! insisted and persisted in saying it was a cheap pump on more than one occasion.:whistle:

Saying all along... where exactly?

Please, also point out where I said it was a "cheap pump on more than one occassion too..." I certainly hypothesised once since you came in from a clear position of ignorance ranting about Kiwis having been conned big time and offering no detail other that just your own expereince which is contrary to pretty much every other person in this thread.

You really do like to talk total shit that you just make up as you go along. :rofl:

[digsaw]

What I gather from that is you bought a heat pump, on the cheap, from a fly-by-nighter, who undersized it and now you want the heat pump you should have bought in the first place from a reputable supplier, at no further cost to yourself. How'd I do? not very well i think:whistle: sorry about saying you said it more than once,i was referring to the general tone of all the replies i have seen on many other posts on this and other forums, a quick poll on one site showed 50..50 for and against which makes me wonder how up front all our retailers have been about informing their customers.

[Max Preload]

How'd I do?


not very well i think :whistle:

Really?


when you ask for info after telling them,the supplier,waat you expect and that waat you expected is not delivered one has every right to make comments! and when you find out that the goods supplied have been dumped in NZ from Aussie and said suppliers to one of our bigger DIY and building suppliers has vanished!


What I gather from that is you bought a heat pump, on the cheap, from a fly-by-nighter, who undersized it and now you want the heat pump you should have bought in the first place from a reputable supplier, at no further cost to yourself.

Seems like much the same thing to me. Just more concise. Correct the bit's that are wrong.