Cruser meets Van

[metalhead]

so im riding dow Gt North rd in the bus lane, doing everything perfectly legal for a change and im just coming up to moa rd when heading in the opposate direction is a van that happens to decide to turn into the space i am about to occupy, all i can think as im breaking and swerving to try avoid it is "Oh no, not again".
i dont remember the actual impact, but the next thing i know im throwing myself off the ground befre i have stopped rolling down the road yelling my head off. fuck it was funny :yes:

anyway, this is the damage XD i was impressed ;)

[Mom]

That will buff out :pinch:

[PirateJafa]

Interesting how the fork has actually snapped.

Clearly you're pretty much okay - you/the van driver got insurance?

[R6_kid]

Interesting how the fork has actually snapped.

Clearly you're pretty much okay - you/the van driver got insurance?

Seen the same happen on one of the smaller bikes from the Suzuki Boulevard range.

[ready4whatever]

its good your okay. pity about the bike. the fuckers just dont see you aye. the first time i took my bike on the road i almost hit a dodge ram that didnt give way, that would of hurt.

[Metalor]

Bah, those forks can be straightened out... no sweat!

Glad you're alright man, that's the main thing.

[metalhead]

fortunately it was a compainy van, the guy called his boss, im going to give him some shit tonight as their insurance compainy hasnt contacted me and its been almost a week

[motorbyclist]

did police attend?

[one fast tl1ooo]

may need 2 check front forks, maybe bent,

[dogsnbikes]

:Oops:this will get you back on the road Repco swear by it and maybe a little of this:bash:


Glad your ok though

[bomma]

van: 1, cruiser: 0..........when's the rematch??

[Real_Wolf]

sorry mate, It looks like your wheel is slightly out of alignment... Might wanna get that looked at


Sucks that that happened. Stupid drivers pulling out in front of people

[retro asian]

OUCH. Glad to see you're ok dude.

I've got a similar bike for sale if you wanna upgrade to a jappa!

[oldrider]

Well, I'm glad you're OK but my neck feels like that third pic looks, after trying to swivel around to look at them! :eek5:

[ital916]

OUCH. Glad to see you're ok dude.

I've got a similar bike for sale if you wanna upgrade to a jappa!

metalhead dont like no jappas breh..........thats why it was fate that the van destroyed the bloody lifan. Now he can go ride his harley, instead of leaving it sitting there in the garage.

[retro asian]

metalhead dont like no jappas breh..........thats why it was fate that the fate destroyed the bloody lifan. Now he can go ride his harley, instead of leaving it sitting there in the garage.

He's got a Harley??
He must have rode the Lifan into the van on purpose then...

[ital916]

He's got a Harley??
He must have rode the Lifan into the van on purpose then...

your vl is listed as a bagger? I assume you have attached hard bags to it then. You should re-route the exhausts so one pipe sits under each bag. No circular mufflers but rectangular, that would look bad ass.

Get a batwing fairing off the next, there are generic fit ones available or maybe a wrecked harley one?

Baggers are awesome!

[retro asian]

your vl is listed as a bagger? I assume you have attached hard bags to it then. You should re-route the exhausts so one pipe sits under each bag. No circular mufflers but rectangular, that would look bad ass.

Get a batwing fairing off the next, there are generic fit ones available or maybe a wrecked harley one?

Baggers are awesome!

Its only a baby bagger...
I tried to find a batwing in the states but ran out of time to do shopping :angry:...might have to look around on ebay.

[ital916]

Its only a baby bagger...
I tried to find a batwing in the states but ran out of time to do shopping :angry:...might have to look around on ebay.

there are a few ones I found online, ya just gotta keep digging. How was the trip?

[metalhead]

dont have a harley yet, i sometimes ride one of my dads though.

i dont like the intruder its far too light lol

[blossoming]

Damn, glad to hear you're alright.

Poor bike...looks like a complete mess...

[retro asian]

i dont like the intruder its far too light lol

fair enough, makes it easy to handle though
Getting another Lifan?


How was the trip?

Fun, but too short. Wish I could've rented a HD and rode around Santa Monica. We did however get a convertible to drive around in, so that was pretty sweet with the sun out and all... Hopefully get to go again next year, if can convince my boss...

[The Pastor]

Its weight saving, having thin metal, makes the bike go faster

[motorbyclist]

Interesting how the fork has actually snapped.


actually what with all teh shear, this does happen... more interesting is the triple clamp..... wonder if a jappa would have done that?


Its weight saving, having thin metal, makes the bike go faster

my thoughts too. quality of the metals are also a question here....


though with that sort of impact any 250 is gunna be a write off

[metalhead]

im going to try get it fixed, if the frame is bent it might be better to get a new one but i think its going to be ok.

the intruder being too light means that it gets blown to fuck if you go anywhere with so much as a light breaze and im an all weather rider

[paturoa]

I had a bad expereince with a SIDSYM when riding the bus lane on Gt North. Not a scratch on myself or the bike, but bikes in bus lanes is an accident looking for a place.

I assume she was looking for a bus in the bus lane and didn't see one, so she pulled out right in front of me.

I avoid them like the plague!

[paturoa]

the intruder being too light means that it gets blown to fuck if you go anywhere with so much as a light breaze and im an all weather rider

Weight of the bike has bugger all to do with riding in windy conditions.

[metalhead]

in both my experience and that of my father who has been riding for the past 20 something years thats bull

[Squiggles]

in both my experience and that of my father who has been riding for the past 20 something years thats bull

Its a factor, but not the primary one. And please, none of the speaking for ya father to support a claim :yes:


Riding in the bus lanes past stopped traffic is always dodge :crazy:

[ital916]

I personally dont have trouble with light bikes in wind, I dont really mind wind at all. You just have to adjust to ride with it.

Only danger I feel is doing a sharp corner at speed with heavy cross winds.....in the end strong winds = MEH!.

[metalhead]

riding in bus lanes is totally legit, people should look where they are going

[Ragingrob]

riding in bus lanes is totally legit, people should look where they are going

:doh:

:second:

[Squiggles]

riding in bus lanes is totally legit, people should look where they are going

Being in the right doesnt make the pain any less :msn-wink:

[Ragingrob]

Being in the right doesnt make the pain any less :msn-wink:

Riding on the motorway at 100kph is totally legit, people should watch out for ME when I'm lane-splitting :eek:

[ital916]

Riding on the motorway at 100kph is totally legit, people should watch out for ME when I'm lane-splitting :eek:

If I saw you on the motorway, I would purposefully run you over. Then Id go to the pub, get a pint and give myself a pat on the back.

[Danae]

pints are yum

[Ragingrob]

pints are yum

If you kiss a pitty pwog it'll turn into a pitty pints.

[Danae]

If you kiss a pitty pwog it'll turn into a pitty pints.

someone get me a pwog!!!

[Metalor]

I'd kiss a frog, and then the prince it turned into.... and then I'd see where the night was to take us!

[Real_Wolf]

I personally dont have trouble with light bikes in wind, I dont really mind wind at all. You just have to adjust to ride with it.

Only danger I feel is doing a sharp corner at speed with heavy cross winds.....in the end strong winds = MEH!.

Massive crosswinds on the harbourbridge can be really really annoying, "trouble" is a decent word for it but it can be dealt with.

Still, the number of times I've ridden over the bridge, and the number of times I've said teh wind was serious enough to say "trouble" is about half a percent, or less

[motorbyclist]

Weight of the bike has bugger all to do with riding in windy conditions.

basic law of physics: Force = Mass x Acceleration

rearrange to F/m=a

leave force constant and smaller mass = bigger acceleration.

common sense really.

Although, in practice while bikes generally weigh around 150kg give or take 30%, it's the force (as a result of the aerodynamics) that varies most between bikes - full fairings tend to act as sails etc

[motorbyclist]

riding in bus lanes is totally legit, people should look where they are going

yes


Being in the right doesnt make the pain any less :msn-wink:

exactly


SMC Safety Officer PROTIP: when splitting or riding past stationary traffic, beware that even if the cagers are looking, you're very well hidden - and a gap in the line of traffic can only mean one thing.....


Tricks that have kept me road-accident free for 5 years of daily commute now:

Assume they cant see you at all times. Assume they don't know you have right of way until they have stopped. Assume they're retarded enough to do the stupidest thing possible to do.

This way you're prepared when they do whatever dumbass manoeuvre they end up doing.

And "they" doesn't just apply to cagers - it's bikers too, especially when it comes to doing stupid shit.

my only cager impact: On muriwai beach I forgot the last assumption. Ended up with a fucked dirtbike, very sore ribs, and false details of the driver. Got a decent scar though:niceone:

[NighthawkNZ]

That will buff out :pinch:


may need a bit of autosol as well

[Real_Wolf]

Its actually more torque and angular momentum, which works slightly differently.

The faster you ride, the more angular momentum you carry and the larger the torque thats required to cause you to change direction

[Squiggles]

Its actually more torque and angular momentum, which works slightly differently.

The faster you ride, the more angular momentum you carry and the larger the torque thats required to cause you to change direction

Bloody Btech students...

[shingo]

Bloody Btech students...

Don't you mean, bloody Engineering students...

[Ragingrob]

Don't you mean, bloody Engineering students...

Bloody Aussies

[shingo]

Bloody Aussies

Sheep shagger

[Ragingrob]

Sheep shagger

Bloody Aussies

[shingo]

Bloody Aussies

That the best you got?

You're letting all the Kiwi's down.

[Ragingrob]

That the best you got?

You're letting all the Kiwi's down.

Bloody Aussies..... Nothing more needs to be said really :eek:

[ital916]

basic law of physics: Force = Mass x Acceleration

rearrange to F/m=a

leave force constant and smaller mass = bigger acceleration.

common sense really.

Although, in practice while bikes generally weigh around 150kg give or take 30%, it's the force (as a result of the aerodynamics) that varies most between bikes - full fairings tend to act as sails etc

stop using rudimentary physics equations that you learnt in third form to justify points which are more complex than that.......it annoys me.

[ital916]

basic law of physics: Force = Mass x Acceleration

rearrange to F/m=a

leave force constant and smaller mass = bigger acceleration.

common sense really.

Although, in practice while bikes generally weigh around 150kg give or take 30%, it's the force (as a result of the aerodynamics) that varies most between bikes - full fairings tend to act as sails etc

full fairings very rarely act like sails.

The reason faired bikes get blown around a little more is they have a larger cross sectional area on the side. Tis why those rubbish bin fairings in like the thirties got banned, dangerous in cross winds. Though I will admit that fairings do have a airfoil effect at various points in time, for most modern supersports the speeds and situations in which those effect become useful are only approachable on the track or doing some silly road riding, fairings allow a motorcycle to become more aerodynamic through the reduction of parasitic and induced drag caused by air flow past the bike, as well as reducing the frontal cross-sectional "wetted" area. Most mere mortal will get some wind protection out of fairings and thats about it...oh and they make ya look like you are going faster.

[Real_Wolf]

I feel sad, I understood all the technical terminology. Its like when your listening to physics jokes and you understand them and laugh

[jono035]

I feel sad, I understood all the technical terminology. Its like when your listening to physics jokes and you understand them and laugh

It's ok, I'll make a few jokes about Electrical Engineering so you can have a change from that feeling...

[jono035]

Sheep shagger

A Kiwi guy and an Aussie guy were walking through a paddock when they saw a sheep with it's head stuck in the fence. The Kiwi guy runs over, downs trou and starts shagging away. After he finishes, he steps back and says 'Your turn, mate' to the Aussie. The Aussie walks over and...

sticks his head in the fence. (http://instantrimshot.com/)

[1wheel riot]

its just a good excuse to up grade

[Danae]

A Kiwi guy and an Aussie guy were walking through a paddock when they saw a sheep with it's head stuck in the fence. The Kiwi guy runs over, downs trou and starts shagging away. After he finishes, he steps back and says 'Your turn, mate' to the Aussie. The Aussie walks over and...

sticks his head in the fence. (http://instantrimshot.com/)

Great link XD

[Squiggles]

Great link XD

Yes, i didnt click it while at work :laugh:

[retro asian]

Yes, i didnt click it while at work :laugh:

I'm with you Squiggles, I was guessing that possibly some other kind of "instant Rim shot" was in that link...

[Danae]

It's a "ba dum dum tschhhhh"

[skidMark]

so im riding dow Gt North rd in the bus lane, doing everything perfectly legal for a change and im just coming up to moa rd when heading in the opposate direction is a van that happens to decide to turn into the space i am about to occupy, all i can think as im breaking and swerving to try avoid it is "Oh no, not again".
i dont remember the actual impact, but the next thing i know im throwing myself off the ground befre i have stopped rolling down the road yelling my head off. fuck it was funny :yes:

anyway, this is the damage XD i was impressed ;)

Ouch!

I used to assemble these bikes and others for lifan NZ, go talk to jason who imports them if ya not insured, say you know mark and he may do you a better deal, i can put all the bits on for ya, just cover the gas for the cage to get to your place or pick up the parts if need be.

www.lifanmc.co.nz (http://www.lifanmc.co.nz)

[skidMark]

actually what with all teh shear, this does happen... more interesting is the triple clamp..... wonder if a jappa would have done that?





Seen MANY a japper do the same thing and worse dude, had a good crawl over "mynameis" 's zxr after hitting a car in a similar way, top of clamp was broken right off the fork etc, its a hell aof alot of force and i'm actually impressed with how well the lifan has handled this impact.

EDIT:

Found i couple of pics of afore mentioned zxr...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61750&d=1179706754


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61752&d=1179706754

in the 2nd one you can see the top of the fork clutch side where the triple clamp is meant to be and severe fork twist lower down, standard stuff for a t bone really

[motorbyclist]

Its actually more torque and angular momentum, which works slightly differently.

The faster you ride, the more angular momentum you carry and the larger the torque thats required to cause you to change direction

worst explanation ever


full fairings very rarely act like sails.

The reason faired bikes get blown around a little more is they have a larger cross sectional area on the side.

which makes them act exactly like a sail :msn-wink:



3rd form physics is fairly easy to understand. aerodynamics isn't. thus we do basic explanations that are fundamentally correct instead of thoroughly confusing everyone.

[jono035]

3rd form physics is fairly easy to understand. aerodynamics isn't. thus we do basic explanations that are fundamentally correct instead of thoroughly confusing everyone.

And there we have one of the principal abilities of an Engineer.

[ital916]

worst explanation ever



which makes them act exactly like a sail :msn-wink:



3rd form physics is fairly easy to understand. aerodynamics isn't. thus we do basic explanations that are fundamentally correct instead of thoroughly confusing everyone.

Sigh andrew, you are not right all the time and dont make fun of engineering. There is a point in time when your theory spouting nonsense must come to an end. Don't use equations to try confuse people.

And no sails do not operate as wind catchers..well they do but you wont go anywhere fast, when properly utilised they will operate as a airfoil or in laymans terms a wing.

I dont know what sort of engineer you hope to be buddy but i like to do in depth calculations before finalising anything. There comes a point where third form maths doesnt cut it anymore, we were taught basic physics equations to acquainted with the field of physics. Fundamental equations very rarely can be used by themselves to correctly explain a situation. Its why we dont go if we apply a 10 newton force to a 1 kilogram object it will travel at 10m/s for eternity. Fundamentals do not give an accurate picture.

You shame engineers....you will be banished from our secret society.

...who keeps the martians under wrap....WEEEE DOOOOOOOOOO!.....:done:

[ital916]

And there we have one of the principal abilities of an Engineer.

No the principal ability of SOME engineers is to try and bullshit their way through projects by thinking they know it all.

I dont know everything as a mechanical engineer. If I need electrical theory ro work done I will come to you, an electrical engineer.

See the problem with andrew is he is mechatronics. Where they try to be both a mechanical and electrical engineer. Just teaming up a mechanical and electrical engineer specialized in their respective field would be far more productive.

[PirateJafa]

And no sails do not operate as wind catchers..well they do but you wont go anywhere fast, when properly utilised they will operate as a airfoil or in laymans terms a wing.

Err yes some of them do - and it's with them that your generally manage to attain your top speeds.

And for the record, I'm not a physicist, I'm not a engineer, but I am a sailor. ;)

[Danae]

A mathematician, a physicist and an engineer are trying to prove the hypothesis that all odd numbers are prime numbers.

Mathematician: "1 is a prime number, 3 is a prime number, 5 is a prime number, 7 is a prime number, 9 isn't a prime number. The hypothesis is false."

Physicist: "1 is a prime number, 3 is a prime number, 5 is a prime number, 7 is a prime number, 9 isn't a prime number, 11 is a prime number, 13 is a prime number...well let's see, that's 7:1 against, so the hypothesis is true."

Engineer: "1 is a prime number, 3 is a prime number, 5 is a prime number, 7 is a prime number, 9 is a prime number..."

<a href="http://instantrimshot.com/">Ta daa!</a>

Bikes act as sails. Proof:

<img src="http://i25.tinypic.com/ta6j2o.jpg"></img>

[skidMark]

How did a

"i crashed my bike"

thread turn into a

"i am the better lecturers pet"

thread?

[StoneY]

van: 1, cruiser: 0..........when's the rematch??

Debateable- we aint seen how stoved the Van is!
When my mate hit a van on my old gsx 1100 es (83) he ripped the whole cab off the van :gob:
Was only at 80kmh too- was the older type C20's from the 80's- tin cans- bike won that round ;)

I dont let mates borrow my bikes anymore

[Ixion]

full fairings very rarely act like sails.

The reason faired bikes get blown around a little more is they have a larger cross sectional area on the side.

But - von Klunken has about the largest , most slab sided fairing ever on a motorbike. Yet, it's the most wind stable bike I've ever owned. How come?

Whereas ffwabbitt with no fairing at all is quite bad . maybe not the worst I've ever ridden but up there.

It's more complex than just the area of the fairing.


worst explanation ever

which makes them act exactly like a sail :msn-wink:

.

Not really. A sail relies on having higher pressure on one side than the other. Is there any evidence that a motorcycle fairing, side on , has a pressure differential.

[Real_Wolf]

Well if it blocks the wind from going through then yes, it would, but at the same time so would a nekkid.

Anyways, the simplest way to think of it is as a lever, you have the wind acting as a force on the pivot, which is the ground-wheel connection, and the more force that is applied on the side, and the higher it is applied, the greater the torque applied.

Then you put in that angular acceleration (bike falling sideways) is relative to the torque, more torque, bike falls over faster.
However, the heavier the bike, in terms of angular mass (which is proportional to the height the center of mass is from the pivot) will change how this angular acceleration occurs.

Finally, a greater cross sectional area means that there is more space available for the wind to put pressure on, and as such it can have a greater effect.

This is all very simplified physics though, and as such the intracacies of the shape of the fairing, and just how it diverts the wind will have quite an effect.

For example, if its just a solid wall fairing, no curvature at all, ignoring the fringe effects of the 90 degree corners at the side, you will get the full force applied upon the fairing in the direction of the wind, assuming wind is at 90 degree's to the fairing surface.

However, if the fairing is curved, then the wind is merely diverted, and the force that it applied is proportional instead to the diversion of the wind, which will be less than the full force. The more the wind is diverted the more 'pushing over' force you will end up having.

Either way, due to the difficulty of dealing with turbulent air and its equations, one has to assume that the wind in question has a laminar flow which doesn't fit the actual model of what most people call "the wind pushing over my bike"

[Metalor]

Haha, you guys are a laugh.

I'm better than all of you put together!

:D :D :D

[skidMark]

Haha, you guys are a laugh.

I'm better than all of you put together!

:D :D :D


Lowest sperm count doesn't win.

[ital916]

Err yes some of them do - and it's with them that your generally manage to attain your top speeds.

And for the record, I'm not a physicist, I'm not a engineer, but I am a sailor. ;)

A sailor that is drunk most of the time he is on a ship :laugh:

The fastest speeds obtained by a sail boat will be when the sails and keel are used in equilibrium. the aerodynamic and hydrodynamic forces will always be in a state of equilibrium. When not is when things go wrong. Think of the keel as an underwater wing, simplifies things greatly.

State a situation where using a sail in a wind catching manner will attain a higher top speed that using the sail as an airfoil. I for one have never come accross it, tis why sail boats travel in a zig zag pattern downwind. I should post a picture of a speed polar I computed for an experimental german yacht at uni, then you will see what I am harping on about. Then I am happy to be corrected as I am always learning.

[ital916]

But - von Klunken has about the largest , most slab sided fairing ever on a motorbike. Yet, it's the most wind stable bike I've ever owned. How come?

Whereas ffwabbitt with no fairing at all is quite bad . maybe not the worst I've ever ridden but up there.

It's more complex than just the area of the fairing.



Not really. A sail relies on having higher pressure on one side than the other. Is there any evidence that a motorcycle fairing, side on , has a pressure differential.

Like I said in a previous post, most of the time you cant knock things down to simple fundamentals. There are more factors than just area, for example height of the motorcycle, difference in mass etc.

Motorcycle fairings do have pressure differentials but at extreme situations. I remember studying a paper about the downforce created by motorcycle fairings in high speed and high lean corners. Quite interesting, but 99% of the time fairings do not act as sails, and REMEMBER sails are the same as wings, or better termed airfoils.

Is it just me or am I repeating myself.

[ital916]

However, if the fairing is curved, then the wind is merely diverted, and the force that it applied is proportional instead to the diversion of the wind, which will be less than the full force. The more the wind is diverted the more 'pushing over' force you will end up having.



That is wrong, but I am tired of writing HUGE posts, so ill just leave it as that is wrong. I thought you studied electrical, I would stick to that.

[ital916]

How did a

"i crashed my bike"

thread turn into a

"i am the better lecturers pet"

thread?

We can turn it into a " I am the better Work and Income New Zealand Pet" just for you shitstain :laugh:

[Danae]

Guys, you're making my head hurt! I mean, physics is great but you can have too much of a good thing. I don't go on KB to learn stuff, I go on KB to avoid learning stuff!

[PirateJafa]

A sailor that is drunk most of the time he is on a ship :laugh:

The fastest speeds obtained by a sail boat will be when the sails and keel are used in equilibrium. the aerodynamic and hydrodynamic forces will always be in a state of equilibrium. When not is when things go wrong. Think of the keel as an underwater wing, simplifies things greatly.

State a situation where using a sail in a wind catching manner will attain a higher top speed that using the sail as an airfoil. I for one have never come accross it, tis why sail boats travel in a zig zag pattern downwind. I should post a picture of a speed polar I computed for an experimental german yacht at uni, then you will see what I am harping on about. Then I am happy to be corrected as I am always learning.


<img src="http://spinnaker-host.com/spinnaker.jpg"> <img src="http://www.riggingandsails.com/products/spinrigging.jpg">

Some yachts will sail a zigzag course downwind depending on what sail(s) they are carrying - IE a yacht flying an asymmetric spinnaker will sail a series of downwind reaches, whilst the far more commonly used symmetric spinnakers you point straight downwind and crack open the gin and tonic.

You can come racing with us some time if you're man enough.

[motorbyclist]

I gave up as soon as i saw realwolf's massive post


dushy clearly missed my point, is trolling hard, and is jealous he can't do mechatronics (btw, the idea is not to replace a mechanical and electrical engineer, but to oversee the mechanical, electrical and software guys. NEWSFLASH; companies worldwide finding that mechatronics engineers ARE infact preferable to two individual specialists who can't understand each other :shit:)

+1 for jafa's post with pictures

[Danae]

I think I should get bonus points for not taking any of this seriously, posting a joke my friend told me, and posting an awesome picture

[skidMark]

Jesus christ it keeps getting worse

:blink:

Ladies and gentemen i present... the future of New Zealand.

Oh we are fucked.:blink:

[Ixion]

.. NEWSFLASH; companies worldwide finding that mechatronics engineers ARE infact preferable to two individual specialists who can't understand each other :shit:)


I guess one mechatron who can't understand himself is less confusion than two specialists who can't understand each other. :devil2:

[jono035]

companies worldwide finding that mechatronics engineers ARE infact preferable to two individual specialists who can't understand each other

It has its place. My problem is more the mechatronics guys who pass themselves off as people who can do the job of either. They can't.

Maybe the course has got better since I graduated, but the mechatronics guys I knew and helped with EEE stuff were pretty hopeless...

[ital916]

I gave up as soon as i saw realwolf's massive post


dushy clearly missed my point, is trolling hard, and is jealous he can't do mechatronics (btw, the idea is not to replace a mechanical and electrical engineer, but to oversee the mechanical, electrical and software guys. NEWSFLASH; companies worldwide finding that mechatronics engineers ARE infact preferable to two individual specialists who can't understand each other :shit:)

+1 for jafa's post with pictures

Lame response andrew. Im not trolling, what, I start actually talking sense about an area I know stuff about and it is trolling. Me...jealous...of you or not being able to do mechatronics. Ha....Id be sooner jealous of sam, and that aint happening..ever. I chose to do mechanical as anything electrical bores me.

yet more statements without references...we are talking engineering here. Otherwise you have to go, "I believe comapnies worldwide..."

I find it is the mentality that mechatronics engineers believe themselves superior to either profession. I have friends in mechatronics who are extremely clever but they dont try and fool themselves into thinking they are the equivalent of both a mechanical and electrical engineer.

In the end we are all engineers...so lets be friends...which we are anyway.

:laugh:

[ital916]

<img src="http://spinnaker-host.com/spinnaker.jpg"> <img src="http://www.riggingandsails.com/products/spinrigging.jpg">

Some yachts will sail a zigzag course downwind depending on what sail(s) they are carrying - IE a yacht flying an asymmetric spinnaker will sail a series of downwind reaches, whilst the far more commonly used symmetric spinnakers you point straight downwind and crack open the gin and tonic.

You can come racing with us some time if you're man enough.

Yeah, id be keen. Tell me when mate, Ill be up for it. You'd have to show me how to do stuff though. Like I said, I dont mind being wrong, hmmm I did study the affects of spinnaker and found that sailing the zig zag course was still quicker, though if you are gonna be lazy you can point it downwind, but it aint the fastest route. I can post diagrams too, but no one would understand thwm, now, where is the gin and tonic?

[jono035]

I find it is the mentality that mechatronics engineers believe themselves superior to either profession.

Same experience here, pissed me off greatly.

[metalhead]

Ouch!

I used to assemble these bikes and others for lifan NZ, go talk to jason who imports them if ya not insured, say you know mark and he may do you a better deal, i can put all the bits on for ya, just cover the gas for the cage to get to your place or pick up the parts if need be.

cheers for that mate but i do all the work on my bike myself and i can get trade for parts off a friend off my dad

[retro asian]

<img src="http://madkevin.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/revenge-of-the-nerds.jpg">

NEERRDS!!!!

[Danae]

As I was leaving the computer room, I spotted an asian dude on KB...retro asian, could it have been you?

In any case i lold

[Squiggles]

My GN pwns you all.

[shingo]

dushy clearly missed my point...

Wait ital916 is Dushy? :scratch:

It all makes sense now...

[Danae]

Wait ital916 is Dushy? :scratch:

It all makes sense now...

lol took you a while

[Squiggles]

Wait ital916 is Dushy? :scratch:

It all makes sense now...

lol, Aussies really are dumb :laugh:

[Real_Wolf]

see, the problem is that your saying it can't be brought down to fundamentals, and for the very precise things that is true, however for a basic observation, the entire point of physics is simplifying something so that you can use it to understand more complex things, such as assuming that a wire is of infinite length so you don't have to deal with an unusual field coming off the end of it.

Or assuming that the molecules in a gas do not interact, so that PV = nRT is still fairly accurate.

Or assuming that the torque produced by the force on the fairing is roughly perpindicular.

Also, the amount that the wind is diverted is essentially a force being applied on the wind, and as such newtons third law of physics (which hasn't been proven wrong on anything non-relative or quantum mechanical) clearly states that for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction, thus the force exerted upon the wind to change its directory, simple F*t = change in momentum, would have an equal force being exerted upon said motorcycle fairings

[Ragingrob]

lol, Aussies really are dumb :laugh:

Laugh Out Loud!

[skidMark]

Laugh Out Loud!




ROR...


http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/7/4/633507747147468646-raff-out-roud.jpg

[motorbyclist]

It has its place. My problem is more the mechatronics guys who pass themselves off as people who can do the job of either. They can't.

Maybe the course has got better since I graduated, but the mechatronics guys I knew and helped with EEE stuff were pretty hopeless...

yeah they've made a biiiig shift away from mechanical towards electrical. As students we've started taking 5th papers also to try and reach further back towards mechanical and/or open up more slots for electives in 4th year. Myself i'll be back for a 5th year of extra electives and to pick up some languages and maybe a bit of commerce.

we're mechatronics, not mechanical, not electrical. Contrary to the theory that it's a general specialisation, turns out we're real good at what we do, but a waste of time as pure electrical/mechanical/software engineers because we've made a compromise and simply aren't as good. What we are good at is mechatronics systems; where otherwise the three traditional engineers are desperately struggling to convey ideas between each other and are unaware of the abilities/limitations of what their colleague can engineer. This is where the job market suddenly looks good, otherwise it's a bit depressing going around being turned down cause we're not pure electrical/mechanical.


honestly, as it is we need to be taking 5 papers per semester or more to get a proper mix, but that stuffs up the conjoint and AP students. I tried to explain to the powers that be that 2nd year dropping machines and mechanisms on favour of basic electrics which we relearn in 3rd year anyway is denying most the "kids" any semblance of what could be an understanding of the real world.

ie, it's full of nerds that are book smart, but come up with some retarded ideas that might work in theory but either aren't viable or just don't work in practice, OR is a less effective system for something that's been around for 50 years, because their real-world experience is nil. Talking with some managers recently (job interviews etc) they had much the same to say, and apparently even professional engineers are prone to it across all specialisations (but moreso software, you can guess why).



yet more statements without references...we are talking engineering here. Otherwise you have to go, "I believe comapnies worldwide..."

right, i can either dig up all the articles and columns i've read supporting the matter, or reference the managers/HR people we talk to from companies that started taking graduate mechatronics a few years ago and now won't take anyone else (within reason). or you can take my word for it, with the concession that obviously it only suits certain industries/businesses. your choice.


I find it is the mentality that mechatronics engineers believe themselves superior to either profession. I have friends in mechatronics who are extremely clever but they dont try and fool themselves into thinking they are the equivalent of both a mechanical and electrical engineer.



Same experience here, pissed me off greatly.

but it's half the fun! (lol that engineers, usually considered arrogant, are calling the superior engineer arrogant too :bleh:)


seriously though, i think a major problem is we keep bumping into the compsys guys; pants-on-head retarded.

classic example - asked for help from fellow 3rd year student using an AVR. he wanted to know why he wasn't getting a display on the screen from his running code. I ended up painfully explaining that if he doesn't have any connection from AVR to PC that it isn't going to magically appear on-screen. Then explained what an LDR is, suggested the use of a photodiode, and mocked the use of some sort of photovoltaic effect on the capacitance of an LED to detect light/dark. My wingmen also mocked; mechatonics ftw!

Told him to get back to me if he got it working however, because if it did work i'd be impressed and curious. (and didn't want to plant my foot too firmly in my mouth)

sure enough, next time i saw him he had got it working, while he didn't go into any detail, apparently he came up with a clever solution where i had advised that what he was measuring was probably outside the accuracy of his ADC.

[skidMark]

yeah they've made a biiiig shift away from mechanical towards electrical. As students we've started taking 5th papers also to try and reach further back towards mechanical and/or open up more slots for electives in 4th year. Myself i'll be back for a 5th year of extra electives and to pick up some languages and maybe a bit of commerce.

we're mechatronics, not mechanical, not electrical. Contrary to the theory that it's a general specialisation, turns out we're real good at what we do, but a waste of time as pure electrical/mechanical/software engineers because we've made a compromise and simply aren't as good. What we are good at is mechatronics systems; where otherwise the three traditional engineers are desperately struggling to convey ideas between each other and are unaware of the abilities/limitations of what their colleague can engineer. This is where the job market suddenly looks good, otherwise it's a bit depressing going around being turned down cause we're not pure electrical/mechanical.


honestly, as it is we need to be taking 5 papers per semester or more to get a proper mix, but that stuffs up the conjoint and AP students. I tried to explain to the powers that be that 2nd year dropping machines and mechanisms on favour of basic electrics which we relearn in 3rd year anyway is denying most the "kids" any semblance of what could be an understanding of the real world.

ie, it's full of nerds that are book smart, but come up with some retarded ideas that might work in theory but either aren't viable or just don't work in practice, OR is a less effective system for something that's been around for 50 years, because their real-world experience is nil. Talking with some managers recently (job interviews etc) they had much the same to say, and apparently even professional engineers are prone to it across all specialisations (but moreso software, you can guess why).



right, i can either dig up all the articles and columns i've read supporting the matter, or reference the managers/HR people we talk to from companies that started taking graduate mechatronics a few years ago and now won't take anyone else (within reason). or you can take my word for it, with the concession that obviously it only suits certain industries/businesses. your choice.




but it's half the fun! (lol that engineers, usually considered arrogant, are calling the superior engineer arrogant too :bleh:)


seriously though, i think a major problem is we keep bumping into the compsys guys; pants-on-head retarded.

classic example - asked for help from fellow 3rd year student using an AVR. he wanted to know why he wasn't getting a display on the screen from his running code. I ended up painfully explaining that if he doesn't have any connection from AVR to PC that it isn't going to magically appear on-screen. Then explained what an LDR is, suggested the use of a photodiode, and mocked the use of some sort of photovoltaic effect on the capacitance of an LED to detect light/dark. My wingmen also mocked; mechatonics ftw!

Told him to get back to me if he got it working however, because if it did work i'd be impressed and curious. (and didn't want to plant my foot too firmly in my mouth)

sure enough, next time i saw him he had got it working, while he didn't go into any detail, apparently he came up with a clever solution where i had advised that what he was measuring was probably outside the accuracy of his ADC.


What the flying fuck, what is wrong with the uni students today, having discussions directly read from your uni books on the internet. Why arn't you getting pissed slurrily argueing this in person while doing shots off uni sluts and loose old library ladies?

[motorbyclist]

I find it is the mentality that mechatronics engineers believe themselves superior to either profession.


Same experience here, pissed me off greatly.

lol you should've seen the submissions for the 3rd year shirt! We actually weren't allowed to print them:laugh:

apparently slogans such as, "Mechatronics: putting you out of a job since 2003", and, "Bow to your future overlords" could be considered offensive:innocent:

[motorbyclist]

What the flying fuck, what is wrong with the uni students today, having discussions directly read from your uni books on the internet. Why arn't you getting pissed slurrily argueing this in person while doing shots off uni sluts and loose old library ladies?

shit, you must've missed the warning i added.....


We don't need sex; we get fucked by the school of engineering all the time!:buggerd:

[jono035]

Contrary to the theory that it's a general specialisation, turns out we're real good at what we do, but a waste of time as pure electrical/mechanical/software engineers because we've made a compromise and simply aren't as good.

And there we go. Bravado bullshit about being 'superior' aside, mechatronics guys should be able to easily do something that it would take a mechanical or electrical engineer with a very specific (and rare) set of extra skills to do, or require 2 engineers, so of course companies would be hiring mechatronics guys to do the jobs that are appropriate.

I'm glad you guys are learning more electrical stuff, it was pretty damn sparse a few years ago. Teaching 4th years why a comparator and op-amp are different pissed me off.

Edit: You mention the fact that most engineers come out of the degree basically unemployable due to only being book smart, bear in mind that this was the complaint of the guy that I worked for, the complaint of the guys in the years above me, and my complaint as well. It has been a common theme for a very long time and is an understood point by anyone with any practical skills.


seriously though, i think a major problem is we keep bumping into the compsys guys; pants-on-head retarded.

Yeah, there are a few *facepalm* moments there, same with the software engineers.

btw - the thing with the LED as a light detector can actually be elegant, under reverse bias the avalanche current changes according to incident light, same as a photodiode just weaker. Never used the effect myself but using an indicator LED to do ambient light measurement has some amount of appeal.

[ital916]

see, the problem is that your saying it can't be brought down to fundamentals, and for the very precise things that is true, however for a basic observation, the entire point of physics is simplifying something so that you can use it to understand more complex things, such as assuming that a wire is of infinite length so you don't have to deal with an unusual field coming off the end of it.

Or assuming that the molecules in a gas do not interact, so that PV = nRT is still fairly accurate.

Or assuming that the torque produced by the force on the fairing is roughly perpindicular.

Also, the amount that the wind is diverted is essentially a force being applied on the wind, and as such newtons third law of physics (which hasn't been proven wrong on anything non-relative or quantum mechanical) clearly states that for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction, thus the force exerted upon the wind to change its directory, simple F*t = change in momentum, would have an equal force being exerted upon said motorcycle fairings

I think andrew and jono that we should stop debating among ourselves and unify on the point that realwolf must stop writing.....agreed?

[ital916]

right, i can either dig up all the articles and columns i've read supporting the matter, or reference the managers/HR people we talk to from companies that started taking graduate mechatronics a few years ago and now won't take anyone else (within reason). or you can take my word for it, with the concession that obviously it only suits certain industries/businesses. your choice.




but it's half the fun! (lol that engineers, usually considered arrogant, are calling the superior engineer arrogant too :bleh:)




Well we are engineers so I think I will take the references and articles thanks, :laugh:.

Im not arrogant, I believe engineers being arrogant is just a myth. It seems that way because half the time when we are talking about what we know, others dont follow. It makes people think we are arrogant. Same happens with doctors and lawyers.

I would also be careful about calling mechatronics superior, one day you'll find you will need mechanical and electrical engineers, as much as we hate to admit it, we will probably rely upon mechatronics as well.

[jono035]

Well we are engineers so I think I will take the references and articles thanks, :laugh:.

Im not arrogant, I believe engineers being arrogant is just a myth. It seems that way because half the time when we are talking about what we know, others dont follow. It makes people think we are arrogant. Same happens with doctors and lawyers.

I would also be careful about calling mechatronics superior, one day you'll find you will need mechanical and electrical engineers, as much as we hate to admit it, we will probably rely upon mechatronics as well.

Yeah, no doubt.

Just looking at the course-list for mechatronics and it does look like the electronics part of the course is a bit more healthy now, but 4th year seems to be mostly mechanical stuff?

What year are you guys by the way?

[ital916]

Yeah, no doubt.

Just looking at the course-list for mechatronics and it does look like the electronics part of the course is a bit more healthy now, but 4th year seems to be mostly mechanical stuff?

What year are you guys by the way?

Im graduating this year so fourth year.

[Nagash]

I do believe you lot have gone fairly off topic, in a hilarious manor no doubt.

To boil it down to it's basic element,

An intruder can handle perfectly fine in the wind. As can any other modern bike (they do tests for this kind of shit you know!).

All depends on the rider.

Christ, it's only riding down a road with wind. Nothing difficult about it.

[jono035]

I do believe you lot have gone fairly off topic, in a hilarious manor no doubt.

To boil it down to it's basic element,

An intruder can handle perfectly fine in the wind. As can any other modern bike (they do tests for this kind of shit you know!).

All depends on the rider.

Christ, it's only riding down a road with wind. Nothing difficult about it.

We've gone so far off topic I don't even remember what part of this thread you are replying to <_<

[ital916]

We've gone so far off topic I don't even remember what part of this thread you are replying to <_<

That would be the part where we were debating whether jesus rode a motorcycle or drove a car.

[jono035]

That would be the part where we were debating whether jesus rode a motorcycle or drove a car.

That can't have been a debate, motorcycle was the only option that made any sense at all!

[Real_Wolf]

That can't have been a debate, motorcycle was the only option that made any sense at all!

Yeah, not like he has to worry about the safety of it all, he'll just come back again

[Ixion]

That can't have been a debate, motorcycle was the only option that made any sense at all!

Not so. have you never heard of Jumping J Christ on a motorised pogo stick?

[pocketcracker]

someone get me a pwog!!!

I AM HERE ! ... :blink:

[ital916]

I AM HERE ! ... :blink:

Dammit, pocketcracker got off his leash again.....

[skidMark]

Dammit, pocketcracker got off his leash again.....


You two keep your kinky bedroom shit to yourselves...

[motorbyclist]

*refrains from smashing head on desk*

yeah, realwolf should shutup; i can agree with that :)



What year are you guys by the way?

3rd...

probably going to hang around for a 5th to further delve into areas of interest

[jono035]

... to further delve into areas of interest

So that's what you crazy kids are calling it these days... Back in my day we called it failing!

[ital916]

So that's what you crazy kids are calling it these days... Back in my day we called it failing!

I plan on graduating and then working in areas of interest.:lol:

[Dare]

Edit: You mention the fact that most engineers come out of the degree basically unemployable due to only being book smart, bear in mind that this was the complaint of the guy that I worked for, the complaint of the guys in the years above me, and my complaint as well. It has been a common theme for a very long time and is an understood point by anyone with any practical skills.
Is this the mechatronics degree? I'm doing a 'creative technologies' degree and we have the opposite problem, am considering doing mech at some point.


I think andrew and jono that we should stop debating among ourselves and unify on the point that realwolf must stop writing.....agreed?
BAHAHAHAHA

[jono035]

Is this the mechatronics degree? I'm doing a 'creative technologies' degree and we have the opposite problem, am considering doing mech at some point.

This is for all of engineering. I think it holds true for most university degrees actually, but for engineering I wanted to see more practical skills developed.

In hindsight I think that it is actually a good thing. Practical skills are actually better suited to being learned from people who aren't lecturers but are actually practising engineers. You only have so much time to learn stuff from theory/books really, so the university makes the most of that window.

[motorbyclist]

So that's what you crazy kids are calling it these days... Back in my day we called it failing!

i think it's called master of engineering studies or something like that. either way it'd be silly to decide either way until this time next year anyway


I plan on graduating and then working in areas of interest.:lol:

just had a job interview at Rakon this morning - imo it went pretty well too:wari:

[jono035]

just had a job interview at Rakon this morning - imo it went pretty well too:wari:

Who did the interview?

Edit: I thought the only thing a Master of Engineering Studies was good for was doing engineering management courses...

[Danae]

just had a job interview at Rakon this morning - imo it went pretty well too:wari:

:clap: :hug: