ktm lc4 400, metal in oil

[Underground]

I drained the oil today and found this on the magnet :blink:
Looks like flakes of bearing type metal.
What to do ?
Fill it up with oil and keep riding ?
Or is something seriously terminating inside my motor ?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=138751&stc=1&d=1250675256

[Madmax]

Not sure looks like bearing bits, id pull it down for a look
:blink:

[Madmax]

looking again it looks like big end bits (the bearings start to skid when the hardening goes, then the retainer goes)

[Madmax]

have not pulled one of your model bikes down before
may just be gearbox bits but it does not seem quite right
this gentleman should know more

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=12047

[Underground]

Thanks ,Its dificult to find much info on these motors ,but aparently the bottom end is the same as the 600.
All I can find out is that some bikes had camshaft bearing failure
and the main gives trouble and they upgrade to a roller bearing.
also there was an upgrade for the transmission output bearing.

[The Pastor]

how many oil chances have you done on this bike?

[Quasievil]

Some questions

how old is the bike
how often do you change the oil
What kind of oil are you using

[Underground]

Bike is 1994 done 12,750 km
Had an easy life by the looks , I've only done about 3'000km on it in the last 3 yrs or so and I generally ring the shit out of it (its a KTM)
I've changed oil about every 1'200k
Motorex Powersynt 4t 10w/50

[The Pastor]

Bike is 1994 done 12,750 km
Had an easy life by the looks , I've only done about 3'000km on it in the last 3 yrs or so and I generally ring the shit out of it (its a KTM)
I've changed oil about every 1'200k
Motorex Powersynt 4t 10w/50
yeah i'd be taking it apart and looking for damage....

[Crisis management]

Just to summarise....the engine is an assembly of metal bits designed to stay together rather than gently fray apart, sooooo.... if bits is falling off, like those bits in the oil, something is not doing what it should.

You have three options.
1. Ignore it and hope.
2. Investigate and repair.
3. Sell very quickly and change address.


Your choice.

Talk to Warewolf, he's local to you and appears intelligent on these things.

[LBD]

Mag plugs always pickup a little debris...first "Dont Panic"

Second replace the oil filter (If there is one) Cut open the old filter with a hacksaw around the head....sometimes a can opener works.

Cut out a section of the filter paper and open up like a concentina...consir...con...squeezy box music thing, and hold the paper up to the sun or a bright light....how much debris do you see?

How old was the oil?

[Crisis management]

Mag plugs always pickup a little debris...first "Dont Panic"

I was going to call you on this but now that you're the recognised lubrication expert I may have to shut up (you are telling the truth in Viffers thread aren't you???) :laugh:

Seriously tho, those lumps do seem a bit bigger than the usual detritus you would expect and to me indicate a failure of some component rather than some casting dags having fallen off and indicate an investigation is in order.

FYI.
Concertina.
1200km oil changes by OP

I shall now retreat to the nearest bunker......:shutup:

Iain

[LBD]

I was going to call you on this but now that you're the recognised lubrication expert I may have to shut up (you are telling the truth in Viffers thread aren't you???) :laugh:

Seriously tho, those lumps do seem a bit bigger than the usual detritus you would expect and to me indicate a failure of some component rather than some casting dags having fallen off and indicate an investigation is in order.

FYI.
Concertina.
1200km oil changes by OP

I shall now retreat to the nearest bunker......:shutup:

Iain

Yes but stepping back a little....I work on really big gear, not bikes, but principals are the same.

This was not the first change was it?...they tend to be worst first time.

Check filter...that is always the best on the spot indication. Parts like you are seeing could easily come from rough gear changes...clutchless up shifts etc...

New oil and filter run for a couple of hours and check plug again would be my plan, before taking drastic action. Hell the number of times I have seen major components replaced on scanti information....I could retire very comfy on the costs of the waste...

[Underground]

Seriously tho, those lumps do seem a bit bigger than the usual detritus you would expect and to me indicate a failure of some component rather than some casting dags having fallen off and indicate an investigation is in order.

Yeah , it isnt what I would expect to see either.
They're not exactly lumps ,when you look through a magnifying glass they are actually flat scaly pieces , sort of curved as though they have flaked off a bearing surface .
Will disect the oil filters later and see whats in them .

[Underground]

I cut up the oil filter and it has collected quite alot of small particles (looks worse in the photo)
After this filter the oil goes through a 'dunny roll' type filter which will have trapped any real small stuff.

Does this mean I can just replace whatever is buggered or will I have to strip the whole engine and clean it ?

[The Stranger]

I drained the oil today and found this on the magnet :blink:


Fark, who'd put a 20c coin in an engine?

[The Pastor]

Fark, who'd put a 20c coin in an engine?
your sposed to put them under ur forks

[warewolf]

My magnetic plug always has a bit of fuzz on it by the 5000km oil & filter change, but nothing shaped like those pieces look/ like you describe.

What it is, and what to do about it, are two questions beyond my expertise, sorry!

[Madmax]

I cut up the oil filter and it has collected quite alot of small particles (looks worse in the photo)
After this filter the oil goes through a 'dunny roll' type filter which will have trapped any real small stuff.

Does this mean I can just replace whatever is buggered or will I have to strip the whole engine and clean it ?

strip it down

[pete376403]

If this was a DR650 I'd say third gear was on the way out...but there's really only one way to find where those bits came from. Pull it apart and inspect.

[Underground]

Fark, who'd put a 20c coin in an engine?
I usually throw a few handsful of them in the sump ...Theyre cheaper by volume than that fancy synth oil .

[LBD]

Looked at your filter photo...yes I would say it is worst case...it does warrant stripping down....

[Underground]

OK , thanks for all the input .
I've started stripping her down and the motor's going on the bench :(
All that metal is coming from some place that its not suposed to be coming from.
Motor in and out looks like a doddle compared to doing my Africa Twin last year...that motor took a lot of beers to remove , and a truckload more to reinstall :drinkup:

[LBD]

Good luck, keep us posted


At least you did not have this much to find...

[Crisis management]

At least you did not have this much to find...

Go on.....thats just molybdenum paste in it's early stages of formation, it'll be fine.

Good call Underground, your regular oil changes have paid off in catching this early rather than when the entire engine is full of filings. Let us know the outcome so we can gloat, oops sympathise.

[LBD]

Go on.....thats just molybdenum paste in it's early stages of formation, it'll be fine.

.

And pass the Tui's while your at it....

[Underground]

Rainy day yesterday so I put the motor on the bench and disected it.
Not good unfortunately :crybaby:
I couldnt pull the cylinder off through lack of a 15mm spanner ,but there is play when I turn the crankshaft back and forth -meaning buggered big end/small end.
And there is what appears to be a crack around the bore :crybaby::crybaby:
See pics .
139561

139562

[Crisis management]

Sorry to see that, it sounds a bit nasty and certainly the cylinder crack is unusual, any idea why that should happen?

[Underground]

Sorry to see that, it sounds a bit nasty and certainly the cylinder crack is unusual, any idea why that should happen?
No idea , I suspect it has been like that since I bought it (assuming it is a crack) because it has always small amounts of coolant .
Can only think that someone in Japan was unkind to it in its previous life.

[Madmax]

strange you can still see the honeing marks