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ReigN
7th December 2009, 13:04
Hey all,

So learnt another term surrounding bikes etc anyways, Starting from last night, I've had problems trying to find neutral and chopping down gears so has been a pita which kinda cut my ride short. This never happened in the 2months that I've been riding so quite strange it's playing up. Took it into RB this morning and was told it's a "crash gearbox" and you have to rock it etc to get it into gear (not sure I worded that properly). Am I just being a bitch and should just get used to getting it into gear with "blippin the gas" or get it looked at properly? I don't mind so long as it doesn't screw my clutch or box (no, I'm not mechanically minded hence the shite explanation)

Any help would be appreciated :woohoo:

Churrrr

ReigN

motorbyclist
7th December 2009, 13:40
bike model, year and mileage?

when was your last oil change? - some bike gearboxes work notably better on fresh oil



Starting from last night, I've had problems trying to find neutral and chopping down gears so has been a pita which kinda cut my ride short. T

you should blip the throttle to match engine and gearbox speed - this saves your clutch, gearbox, chain and rear tyre from the nasty jolt/shock you get otherwise - OR slip the clutch, at the expense of a clutch. If you're ever ridden an FXR150 you'd also know this saves your balls from a rather nasty impact against the tank.

it's just like letting of the gas when you shift up.



but if you are stationary and she wont go into the desired gear, yes you do have to rock her back and forwards a bit; this is because you stopped with some dogs (gear teeth coupling synchro and gear) aligned just right to hit each other rather than mesh, so moving with realign them so they might slot together

YellowDog
7th December 2009, 13:51
What I think you are referring to is that you sometimes can't find gear or neutral without first dissengaging the clutch sightly to move it all around a bit?

If this is the case, most bikes are like this and it is something you will quickly get used to. A quick slip on the clutch will help you find neutral or the first gear.

If you are refering to changing gear whilst riding, as has already been said, it is always a good idea to get the engine revs up close to the wheel speed before changing gear.

CookMySock
7th December 2009, 15:14
Have you just changed the oil? If someone has put the wrong oil in it - this will stiffen the gearbox up and make it drag, making it behave completely differently, and also hard to find neutral.

Failing that, I'd say something has come adrift, and will likely spit the dummy before long.

Steve

ReigN
7th December 2009, 15:48
bike model, year and mileage?

when was your last oil change? - some bike gearboxes work notably better on fresh oil

you should blip the throttle to match engine and gearbox speed - this saves your clutch, gearbox, chain and rear tyre from the nasty jolt/shock you get otherwise - OR slip the clutch, at the expense of a clutch. If you're ever ridden an FXR150 you'd also know this saves your balls from a rather nasty impact against the tank.

it's just like letting of the gas when you shift up.

but if you are stationary and she wont go into the desired gear, yes you do have to rock her back and forwards a bit; this is because you stopped with some dogs (gear teeth coupling synchro and gear) aligned just right to hit each other rather than mesh, so moving with realign them so they might slot together

ZXR250C, 1991, 22k

Last oil change was 2mths ago I guess upon recieving the bike.

Ok so the blipping thing I've never been good at, so I guess I've been using the engine braking aspect to slow down just like when I'm driving but will try giving it a go on my way home.

Cheers again for the info though dude.

ReigN
7th December 2009, 16:00
What I think you are referring to is that you sometimes can't find gear or neutral without first dissengaging the clutch sightly to move it all around a bit?

If this is the case, most bikes are like this and it is something you will quickly get used to. A quick slip on the clutch will help you find neutral or the first gear.

If you are refering to changing gear whilst riding, as has already been said, it is always a good idea to get the engine revs up close to the wheel speed before changing gear.

Heya Yellow,

Ok cool, so I'm going to try playing around with the clutch abit before coming to a halt, just sux how it feels all mushy when trying to drop down in gears, what's more sucky is how to get off the line it starts in either 2nd or 3rd so I have to ride the clutch slightly in order to roll and then drop down to get momentum as per normal...or maybe my riding style is weird:pinch:

Cheers again YD

ReigN
7th December 2009, 16:04
Have you just changed the oil? If someone has put the wrong oil in it - this will stiffen the gearbox up and make it drag, making it behave completely differently, and also hard to find neutral.

Failing that, I'd say something has come adrift, and will likely spit the dummy before long.

Steve

Hey DB, I've just topped up the oil around 2-3 weeks ago as it was about halfway according to the reader. This shouldn't be the incorrect oil as it was the one recommended by RB and the same one they use on all their bikes before selling.

Yeah well hoping that doesn't happen hence the reason why I'd like to get it sorted before the 3mth warranty is up, sooner rather than later though tbh

Cheers for the input DB.

vindy500
7th December 2009, 16:09
you only fill it halfway up the glass...

ReigN
7th December 2009, 16:31
you only fill it halfway up the glass...

:Oops: ahhh ffs you serious?! I checked this beforehand and this was filled all the way up the glass (I'm pretty sure of it) so therefore I always make it a habit to check water/coolant levels and ol levels too. GG me!!!

Cheers though Vindy.

motorbyclist
7th December 2009, 17:17
ZXR250C, 1991, 22k

gearbox/clutch could've been abused/neglected/damaged by the last learner owner, so maybe get someone independent and experienced to have a try. squiggles/myself would be happy to look (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=89282)

either way, try get the cam chain and tensioner looked at before warranty ends - those things chew through cam chains every 20-30 thousand k and the poorly designed tensioner can go in as few as 15

ReigN
7th December 2009, 18:00
gearbox/clutch could've been abused/neglected/damaged by the last learner owner, so maybe get someone independent and experienced to have a try. squiggles/myself would be happy to look (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=89282)

either way, try get the cam chain and tensioner looked at before warranty ends - those things chew through cam chains every 20-30 thousand k and the poorly designed tensioner can go in as few as 15

Maybe, hopefully i havent poked it for whatever so reason, I think I'm the first NZ owner considering I bought if from RB 2mths ago. Bro you're more than happy to come have a look, I'll pay you too, just spent the last 15mins trying to get this whole "rocking" thing right but it's not feeling my buzz, dam left shin is aching lol (no I'm not jumping up and down on the gear pedal)

This is starting to piss me off though, I've only done about 1000 clicks on it these past 2mths and surely can't have fucked it already? Making me think my decision to get the zxr250c and go for the newer hyosung? I know it's an older bike but still:angry2:

Will have to book and get the cam chain and tensioner so back to cage/bus it is, FFS!!! FML!!!:argh:

Cheers again MB

ReigN
7th December 2009, 18:43
Weirder and weirder, when I turn it off and leave it for abit it seems to engage again? Is there anything apart from the aforementioned that can ultimately affect it as well?

I just find it weird that the gears turn to mush ie.trying to drop down and goes ok untill after 3rd where 2nd/1st is nowhere to be found, just alot of me trying to kick down and up at the lights to no avail, this leaves me lurching off in 2nd/3rd, surely this isn't common?

I'm gonna pop around to the West End carpark to see wether it's me or my ride that's the cause of the prob:argh:

Madmax
7th December 2009, 19:36
Hey all,

So learnt another term surrounding bikes etc anyways, Starting from last night, I've had problems trying to find neutral and chopping down gears so has been a pita which kinda cut my ride short. This never happened in the 2months that I've been riding so quite strange it's playing up. Took it into RB this morning and was told it's a "crash gearbox" and you have to rock it etc to get it into gear (not sure I worded that properly). Am I just being a bitch and should just get used to getting it into gear with "blippin the gas" or get it looked at properly? I don't mind so long as it doesn't screw my clutch or box (no, I'm not mechanically minded hence the shite explanation)

Any help would be appreciated :woohoo:

Churrrr

ReigN
Its a Constant Mesh Gearbox

quickbuck
7th December 2009, 19:52
Its a Constant Mesh Gearbox

Yup, and they ALL do that... if you look for a problem....

The trick is to get really dainty on your foot when going from first to second whole stationary..... Mind, conversely you have to be very positive while on the move.
A real pain when it jumps out.

As for oil, YES, ONLY half way up the glass....
The Race Bike (ZXR400) suffered a bit of a power loss, and clutch slip when overfilled... Ahem.

kave
7th December 2009, 23:02
It doesn't sound like you have any problem. You just need to realise that bikes are different to cars, and the bike gearboxes don't like changing gears while stationary. As long as you always stop in neutral (or somewhere close such as in 2nd gear) you will not have a problem. If you pull up to the lights in fourth gear and then try to chop it down through the gears the bike will not like it, and you will have to rock the bike to try and get it to change. It is just a whole shitload easier to be in the right gear when you stop.

motorbyclist
8th December 2009, 11:02
This is starting to piss me off though, I've only done about 1000 clicks on it these past 2mths and surely can't have fucked it already? Making me think my decision to get the zxr250c and go for the newer hyosung? I know it's an older bike but still:angry2:

Will have to book and get the cam chain and tensioner so back to cage/bus it is, FFS!!! FML!!!:argh:


turns out i'm working this friday night, soooo 0274054213

booking to get the tensioner etc is silly unless it needs doing

you may have fucked it, or the previous owner in japan already did for you, or there's nothing wrong with it at all

the zxr is still a better bike than the hyosung, imho, plus you've got a warranty and saved a bit of money buying it anyway... unless red baron really ripped you off

and incorrect clutch cable adjustment (and/or lever/perch) will cause similar problems

ReigN
8th December 2009, 13:57
Its a Constant Mesh Gearbox

Cheers dude, it's a nice readup for me to have a look at tonight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_(mechanics)

ReigN
8th December 2009, 14:04
Yup, and they ALL do that... if you look for a problem....

The trick is to get really dainty on your foot when going from first to second whole stationary..... Mind, conversely you have to be very positive while on the move.
A real pain when it jumps out.

As for oil, YES, ONLY half way up the glass....
The Race Bike (ZXR400) suffered a bit of a power loss, and clutch slip when overfilled... Ahem.

Duly noted QB, haha yeah have had it jump out on me previously when 1st wasn't fully engaged? so off at the lights I go and shoots in neutral l oops

Dang oil thing I didn't realise, decided to fill up fully due to one thing I was told that a bike is made up majority of oil?! Also, because my cuz siezed his first bike by not topping it up at all so was concerned more about that too, live and you learn I guess:yes:

ReigN
8th December 2009, 14:33
turns out i'm working this friday night, soooo 0274054213

booking to get the tensioner etc is silly unless it needs doing

you may have fucked it, or the previous owner in japan already did for you, or there's nothing wrong with it at all

the zxr is still a better bike than the hyosung, imho, plus you've got a warranty and saved a bit of money buying it anyway... unless red baron really ripped you off

and incorrect clutch cable adjustment (and/or lever/perch) will cause similar problems

No worries will drop a line anyways dude churrr.

Will leave tensioner for now as "I" may be the actual problem or better yet my riding/changing style. Last night didn't help as far as riding around is concerned as still have the mushy steez.

Yeah the zxr is mean ultimately I guess, the warranty aspect is only the initial 3mth warranty one.

Correct adjustment was done yesterday morning so am going to take a proper stab at this this arvo on the way home.

ReigN
8th December 2009, 15:04
Ride to work was interesting, used the blipping aspect when slowing down...well more like slight revving as I haven't mastered the blipping part yet and found that it engaged and disengaged into all gears even 1st!!! :woohoo:

However, I was too chicken to disengage 1st and put it into neutral as I didn't want to have the same hassles I did yesterday but hey at least it worked which is what I'm happy about.

But!!!! A big thanks to all those that had input into the trouble-shooting, hopefully it's only UE and that my lil zxr is alll good, if it's just me then I do apologise in advance for my ass up :mellow:

quickbuck
8th December 2009, 17:29
It is just a whole shitload easier to be in the right gear when you stop.

And that is why 99.9% of all bikes have 1st gear right at the "bottom" of the box.

Kave is right, bikes really hate shifting gear while nothing is running. You can actually break the selector return spring trying..... Had it happen to a CB400SS..... Yeah ,some body did it for us.

quickbuck
8th December 2009, 17:35
Ride to work was interesting, used the blipping aspect when slowing down...

However, I was too chicken to disengage 1st and put it into neutral as I didn't want to have the same hassles I did yesterday but hey at least it worked which is what I'm happy about.

:
Plot thickens....
Now I think the gear shift problem is actually a symptom of something else entirely....
Well, sort of.
What i suspect has happened is your clutch cable has stretched, and you are not able to disengage it from the engine properly.

A little tweek on the adjuster may well rectify all, HOWEVER, ensure the cable is not being held on by a couple of strands at either end before thinking all is fixed.

motorbyclist
8th December 2009, 22:32
I still want to have a look at it - call it a professional curiosity

ReigN
9th December 2009, 12:42
And that is why 99.9% of all bikes have 1st gear right at the "bottom" of the box.

Kave is right, bikes really hate shifting gear while nothing is running. You can actually break the selector return spring trying..... Had it happen to a CB400SS..... Yeah ,some body did it for us.

Ahhh good stuff, makes more sense then. Selector return spring??? Ok, will have a read tonight about that too cheers :)

ReigN
9th December 2009, 12:49
Plot thickens....
Now I think the gear shift problem is actually a symptom of something else entirely....
Well, sort of.
What i suspect has happened is your clutch cable has stretched, and you are not able to disengage it from the engine properly.

A little tweek on the adjuster may well rectify all, HOWEVER, ensure the cable is not being held on by a couple of strands at either end before thinking all is fixed.

Ok, have checked the cabling to the best of my ability, and doesn't seem to have any fraying on the handlebar end as far as I can see. Hmmm, mushy gears this morning still as I got caught out at the lights lol hard to start in 2nd gear...again, dam things, makes riding more interesting especially when coming to stops!

ReigN
9th December 2009, 12:51
I still want to have a look at it - call it a professional curiosity

Cheers bro much apreciated if you could, just hope it's not a waste of time though, will pay you either way anyways:niceone:

Drop a txt on 0211328128 when you're free, cheers

ReigN
17th December 2009, 15:37
Thanks again to MB and crew for having a look at it, I'm glad it wasn't me in the end :cool: Bike has been dropped off into RB so am now playing the waiting game, will update this as soon as I get word, thanks again all who contirbuted :2thumbsup

quickbuck
17th December 2009, 20:17
Thanks again to MB and crew for having a look at it, I'm glad it wasn't me in the end :cool: Bike has been dropped off into RB so am now playing the waiting game, will update this as soon as I get word, thanks again all who contirbuted :2thumbsup

Sweet... We can but try from behind the keyboard....
Let us know what is up with it... when you find out.

Cheers.

motorbyclist
17th December 2009, 20:53
no idea what is the cause of the problem but there definitely is a problem....

maybe the ratcheting mechanism in the shift drum has been buggered around 1st and 2nd gear by learners not rocking it back and forth at lights, maybe it's a clod of gunky oil, maybe it's the clutch (which rattles when not under load and needs cable adjustment) or maybe it's the synchro that engages 1st and 2nd gear.... either way that's for red baron to figure out.

Also figure out how high that thing is meant to sit - methinks yours has been lowered for a short rider in the past but it might just be me

kwaka_crasher
17th December 2009, 21:48
Took it into RB this morning and was told it's a "crash gearbox"

Whoever you spoke to doesn't know shit from chewed dates - in future find someone else. Crash gearbox... :gob: :slap: :thud: I do wonder where do they get these fucking morons from. :laugh: If they don't know they should just STFU and find someone who does.