KTM quits Dakar over capacity rule

[Bob]

Eight-time Dakar Rally champions KTM are quitting the Dakar rally, following a decision by the organisers to restrict engine sizes to 450cc.

KTM said the 450cc limit was ‘unthinkably unsuitable for use in long distance rallies’ and they could ‘no longer economically justify a commitment to be engaged in the Dakar in the future’. The company also blamed short lead times to adjust to the 450cc standard. KTM Motor Sport Advisor Heinz Kinigadner added “The financial consequences that results from this decision are enormous. Quite apart from this, we are shocked by the organiser’s lack of loyalty, above all because of the huge efforts we made following the cancellation of the Dakar in 2008 by contributing to the new edition - even during a period of extreme economic crisis.”

[Gremlin]

I wouldn't own a 450cc motorcycle for all my riding, let alone want to compete on one...

Pity though, KTM and Dakar is like Motorcycles and roads...

[Taz]

Isn't this old news?

This in june
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=100755&highlight=dakar

And then this
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=113717&highlight=dakar

Where you been Bob?

[James Deuce]

Not quite. KTM were weighing up their options and had negotiated the 450 limit application out a year as all their competition bikes were ready to go in 690 format. They were obviously hoping to get the limit reversed altogether but failed. Makes a total mockery of their 690 range of bikes really. Add to that their extensive testing of 450cc engines (125cc MotoG class replacement - probably) of late and I think they know what they are talking about in terms of engine longevity and expense.

There's a difference between threatening to quit and actually doing it. The organisers have been really daft IMO. KTM kept the Dakar going even after it wasn't even going to Dakar with a range of financial aid for the event and riders.

[Taz]

Yes but all this was said in a press release in June

"The financial consequences that results from this decision are enormous. Quite apart from this, we are shocked by the organiser’s lack of loyalty, above all because of the huge efforts we made following the cancellation of the Dakar in 2008 by contributing to the new edition - even during a period of extreme economic crisis,” said KTM Motor Sport Advisor and “Rally Legend” Heinz Kinigadner in a first statement.

Following the decision for the deployment of 450cc motorcycles, which are unthinkably unsuitable for use in long distance rallies,"

[James Deuce]

Yeah, but they hadn't actually quit at that point.

[Bob]

Isn't this old news?

This in june
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=100755&highlight=dakar

And then this
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=113717&highlight=dakar

Where you been Bob?

Every now and again, an ages old piece of news pops up at the top of the news listings for some unfathomable reason. Looks like this is one of them.

Ho hum, suppose one old item out of about what? 200? 250? 300 news items reported this year ahead of most? Not a bad hit rate I suppose! :sunny:

[Taz]

Yeah, but they hadn't actually quit at that point.

Yes they had :p

[James Deuce]

This was the last release I saw

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ktm-confirmed-for-the-2010-dakar-rally-14508.html

The ones in June were a threat to quit and I distinctly remember reading about month ago that 450 limit had been moved back a year to allow the above bike to compete. I believe the truck has now been pulled as well.

[oldguy]

anyway back on track, I do agree the 450 would be unsuitable.

[tri boy]

450's clean up at the Australian Safari that runs for several days.
Obviously a different event, (the Dakar has longer high speed sections), but a works 450 can match and beat the big behemoths in 80% of riding.
160km/h on rough terrain is freaking fast. The 450's can do it.
HTFU KTM, your orange slip is showing:dodge:

[avgas]

do bmw have a 450 dakar?
I wonder if the cars will have to be completely diesel soon too. This wont affect VW. But I can see great changes afoot.
Baja is sounding better each year

[James Deuce]

450's clean up at the Australian Safari that runs for several days.
Obviously a different event, (the Dakar has longer high speed sections), but a works 450 can match and beat the big behemoths in 80% of riding.
160km/h on rough terrain is freaking fast. The 450's can do it.
HTFU KTM, your orange slip is showing:dodge:

It's cost KTM a fortune to keep the Dakar going. Their entire programme is based around the 650cc 690 bikes. They've put a significant amount of money in to keep the event going and they don't have an 450cc adventure bikes at all. They can't rejig the programme in time for the event. They've been the sole major manufacturer for a while. Their MX 450s aren't designed for raids.

[tri boy]

KTM isn't the Dakar. It is one of many companies that have won, (and profited from those wins). Times change, adapt or stop competing. The 690 range will still sell, as it is a good range.
Dakar was about testing a firms range of bikes in challenging environs. If they hedge their marketing angle on one or two annual events, then they need a serious board reshuffle. MHO

[Ocean1]

I believe the truck has now been pulled as well.

Bugger.

I was SO looking forward to a wee thrash.

[James Deuce]

KTM isn't the Dakar. It is one of many companies that have won, (and profited from those wins). Times change, adapt or stop competing. The 690 range will still sell, as it is a good range.
Dakar was about testing a firms range of bikes in challenging environs. If they hedge their marketing angle on one or two annual events, then they need a serious board reshuffle. MHO

It has been of late. They were the only manufacturer pumping money into it. Yamaha, Honda, et al had ditched factory teams in favour of semi-pro privateers. KTM are a tiny company and the "board" is essentially three guys, one of whom retired earlier in the year. KTM were also pumping big money into 125GP and they got no thanks for that either. The Dakar is where they made their name and rightly or wrongly they kept supporting it when it went to another continent where there was no hope of ever reaching Dakar, and propped it up through falling numbers and recession.

Whoever thought the 450s would be cheaper is nuts. They're designed to run 200 hours tops, and won't be in good nick at the end of that. 60 hours is more like the interval they'll be looking at which means a compulsory engine change if you want to be competitive.

It smacks of the sort of politics designed to drag Honda back in with their cute little uni-cam CRF wheezers, and to get Yamaha back into the spotlight in Europe. Tenere's and Super Tenere's sold on the back of Dakar reputations 20-30 years ago.

[pzkpfw]

What's a uni-cam?

(I figure it's not a video camera in a Hostel shower.)

[James Deuce]

SOHC 4 valve head with the intake valves operated by lobes and the exhaust by rockers.
Supposed to lighten the valve train and flatten the combustion chamber.

Honda have trade marked the term for bike use, but have been doing the same thing in their fuel efficient SOHC VTEC Civics for, like, forever.

[PeeJay]

Bugger.

I was SO looking forward to a wee thrash.

You can still go. According to KTM's website they will have their support truck out there. 690s are still running, just with air restrictors. Sounds like they have all sat down and had a talk and a pizza and will come up with something that works for everyone. It doesnt sound like they are 'quitting' just not having a factory team there next year. I am sure they are up to the challenge of building a successful 450 Dakar.
Although if they get on this thread they might change their mind
Theres more to the Dakar than KTM,
79 bikes out of 161, even a couple of Jin Shengs having a go,
2 quads out of 40
0 cars out of 140
0 trucks out of 52.
Although from a manufacturers point of view 81 vehicles is probably more than any one else has there.

[rok-the-boat]

Why 450? To give others a better chance? If so, what is wrong with that?

[McJim]

The point is that 450 is totally unsuitable for a long distance rally - the engine is too small and requires shorter service intervals. 650-690 is far more suitable for an endurance event. Having lots of 450cc bikes will mean many simply blow up leaving their riders stranded and could ultimately end in fatalities.

Irresponsible.

[NordieBoy]

Why 450? To give others a better chance? If so, what is wrong with that?

Because it's what the riders wanted.

[NordieBoy]

It's cost KTM a fortune to keep the Dakar going. Their entire programme is based around the 650cc 690 bikes.
The works 690's are 690cc.