Worst nightmare come true...

[cbfb]

Dead keen to get out for a ride, I was putting the bike back together this arvo after adjusting the tappets. Putting the cam journal holders back in, I was too impatient to stop to wonder why my shitty Repco torque wrench wasn't clicking off until SNAP... bollocks... later testing revealed that the wrench is buggered, won't click off at all.

So now I've got a stud down in one of the bolt holes (nope not fortunate enough to have a bit sticking out I can grab hold of).

I could try drilling it out in situ but then I'd have shrapnel all over the place, bad idea.

As far as I know my only option is to have the whole head off and get it to an engineers. Real pain in the arse.

Anyone got any brighter ideas? Failing that anyone recommend a good engineer in Palmy or nearby?

Pissed that I will have to redo this afternoon's work too :violin:

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[pete376403]

If it just broke because of overtightening, with luck the thread won't be damaged and the broken bit *might* wind out if you can push it around with a sharp pick. There are also left hand drill bits that you use with the drillmotor running in reverse - they dig in while cutting the hole and again *might* spin the broken bit out.

Keep violence as the very last resort.

[cbfb]

If it just broke because of overtightening, with luck the thread won't be damaged and the broken bit *might* wind out if you can push it around with a sharp pick. There are also left hand drill bits that you use with the drillmotor running in reverse - they dig in while cutting the hole and again *might* spin the broken bit out.

Keep violence as the very last resort.

I'll give the pick a try although from the broken end that came off I think the stud will be pretty mangled, would be suprised if it comes out easily.

The drill bits sound promising. Have got a tap and die kit round here somewhere so I could probably manage that. Only problem is I can't really do it in situ cause there'll be metal shrapnel all over the place.

I'll save the violence till I take that torque wrench back to ripco... Although I should give myself a slap for not registering that 8 ft lbs doesn't require a lot of muscle...

[Katman]

If you need to drill the broken piece out pack plenty of rags around the hole you're drilling and coat the tip of the drill bit with grease to contain any swarf.

[Edbear]

Dead keen to get out for a ride, I was putting the bike back together this arvo after adjusting the tappets. Putting the cam journal holders back in, I was too impatient to stop to wonder why my shitty Repco torque wrench wasn't clicking off until SNAP... bollocks... later testing revealed that the wrench is buggered, won't click off at all.

So now I've got a stud down in one of the bolt holes (nope not fortunate enough to have a bit sticking out I can grab hold of).

I could try drilling it out in situ but then I'd have shrapnel all over the place, bad idea.

As far as I know my only option is to have the whole head off and get it to an engineers. Real pain in the arse.

Anyone got any brighter ideas? Failing that anyone recommend a good engineer in Palmy or nearby?

Pissed that I will have to redo this afternoon's work too :violin:

Any advice would be much appreciated.

That sucks! Sympthies! Wot Pete sed!

[Rhys]

you use to be able the use a thing could a ezy out, it was a little bit like a drill bit and you drill it into the bolt or stud until it locked and it would undo the stud i borrowed it of a mechanic friend, probably be able to buy them at super cheap or repco cheap as now days

[cbfb]

Thanks Katman, good advice and will hopefully save me any further effort of taking everything apart.

Thanks Rhys will check those out, think I know what you mean, had something similar in the UK but didn't bring them when I shifted over here.

Cheers Edbear - will let you all know how it goes.

Any recommendations for a new torque wrench that will be suitable for light work (from around 6 ft lbs)?

[hayd3n]

Thanks Katman, good advice and will hopefully save me any further effort of taking everything apart.

Thanks Rhys will check those out, think I know what you mean, had something similar in the UK but didn't bring them when I shifted over here.

Cheers Edbear - will let you all know how it goes.

Any recommendations for a new torque wrench that will be suitable for light work (from around 6 ft lbs)?

my friend bought a digital torque tool works a treat but its from ripco i dont think it did below 20 ft lbs tho

[Edbear]

Thanks Katman, good advice and will hopefully save me any further effort of taking everything apart.

Thanks Rhys will check those out, think I know what you mean, had something similar in the UK but didn't bring them when I shifted over here.

Cheers Edbear - will let you all know how it goes.

Any recommendations for a new torque wrench that will be suitable for light work (from around 6 ft lbs)?

Give Sarge a call on 0274-887 457 or Sulco direct 0800-800 448 or email him on Dallas.Barnett@Sulco.co.nz

[cbfb]

my friend bought a digital torque tool works a treat but its from ripco i dont think it did below 20 ft lbs tho

nah i've been looking and it seems a bit difficult to get a 'cheaper' one that does below 20ft. Have been looking at some on TM but the range is around 5-18 ft lbs which is a bit limited.

[cbfb]

Give Sarge a call on 0274-887 457 or Sulco direct 0800-800 448 or email him on Area 30 <Dallas.Barnett@Sulco.co.nz>

Will do, thanks for that.

[Grumph]

I assume it's a 6mm screw ? If it's broken not more than about 5mm below the surface a good TIG welder can tack a pointed rod onto the end.
Then - voila - wind it out, assisted by the heat expanding the alloy head slightly.

[220 Ohms]

I had the same thing happen to me, twice.
The bolts should turn easy as there is no tension on them anymore.
The first I was able to slowly turn using a pair of needle nose pliers.
The second didn't have enough sticking out to grab (as well as being down a hole) so I bought a 2mm left hand drill bit, covered the whole area with rags and used a blob of grease around the hole to contain any bits. Drilled into it then tapped a punch lightly into it and turned the sucker out.
My problem was caused by metal fatigue in the original bolts, I replaced all of them after that, check your remaining ones for any signs of stretching, I wouldn't want you to have to experience it again

[cbfb]

I assume it's a 6mm screw ? If it's broken not more than about 5mm below the surface a good TIG welder can tack a pointed rod onto the end.
Then - voila - wind it out, assisted by the heat expanding the alloy head slightly.

Could be an option... although getting it to a TIG welder's would be a bit of a pain.


I had the same thing happen to me, twice.
The bolts should turn easy as there is no tension on them anymore.
The first I was able to slowly turn using a pair of needle nose pliers.
The second didn't have enough sticking out to grab (as well as being down a hole) so I bought a 2mm left hand drill bit, covered the whole area with rags and used a blob of grease around the hole to contain any bits. Drilled into it then tapped a punch lightly into it and turned the sucker out.
My problem was caused by metal fatigue in the original bolts, I replaced all of them after that, check your remaining ones for any signs of stretching, I wouldn't want you to have to experience it again

Not enough sticking out to grab hold of, but will definitely give the drill bit idea a go.

[Edbear]

Will do, thanks for that.

Sulco's website, scroll down for a few examples...

http://www.sulco.co.nz/monthly_specials/monthly_specials.pdf

[tigertim20]

bugger.
couple options. if you are going to drill/easy out, use a large magnet to control shrapnel and shit.
you could also try to score a line in he top of the snapped section, and wind out with a flat head screwdriver.
an engineer is going to drill a small hole and use an easy out, so either way, shes getting drilled

[Woodman]

Generally torque wrenches that have low or are accurate at low torque settings are a lot more expensive.

it is actually possible when using cheaper torque wrenches to actually break a small bolt before you even reach the lower limit of the torque wrench. You still need to have a feel for the bolt.

if you use grease and magnets to catch the filings you should be able to drill it out safely.

[marty]

I've got some LH drills - they are available at specialist tool shops. They virtually eliminate the need to use an easy-out, are a necessity on my line of work.

Look for an INCH POUND torque wrench - 6ft/lbs is pretty light - 72in/lbs is much easier to set and torque to - using a wrench that reads from say 20in/lbs to 200in/lbs. You can get them in mm/kg too.

Lots of grease will stop swarf. Keep rags away. Use a vacuum cleaner with the corner attachment if you don't want to use grease.

I have done this kind of thing with titanium screws into gas turbine engines, and if you're careful, it's all good.

[Edbear]

I've got some LH drills - they are available at specialist tool shops. They virtually eliminate the need to use an easy-out, are a necessity on my line of work.

Look for an INCH POUND torque wrench - 6ft/lbs is pretty light - 72in/lbs is much easier to set and torque to - using a wrench that reads from say 20in/lbs to 200in/lbs. You can get them in mm/kg too.

Lots of grease will stop swarf. Keep rags away. Use a vacuum cleaner with the corner attachment if you don't want to use grease.

I have done this kind of thing with titanium screws into gas turbine engines, and if you're careful, it's all good.

You don't work for Rolls Royce do you... :innocent:

[cbfb]

Thanks again everyone for your replies, great that there's so many people keen to help as usual. :yes:

Had another look this morning, it's sheared off pretty clean about 4-5mm below the surface. Hasn't come out with any of the 'easy' methods, so reckon drilling is the only option. Only problem is, no way can I get a drill in there so the head will have to come off!

Not too big a deal I guess, the reason I was doing the tappets was she idles rough and stalls easily (cold and hot) so wouldn't hurt to check. Haven't got the tools to do valves but can check piston wear and see what the cylinders are like.


Sulco's website, scroll down for a few examples...

http://www.sulco.co.nz/monthly_specials/monthly_specials.pdf

Bit more than I wanted to spend, I always say it's worth spending money on tools but I just don't have 400 bucks to spare. I did send an email to the address you gave me tho so will see what they say.


either way, shes getting drilled

I reckon. Should be pretty straightforward once the head's off.


it is actually possible when using cheaper torque wrenches to actually break a small bolt before you even reach the lower limit of the torque wrench. You still need to have a feel for the bolt.

Which I learnt the expensive way yesterday! I was thinking at the time, this is tight but I should trust the wrench... should have trusted my hands...


I've got some LH drills - they are available at specialist tool shops. They virtually eliminate the need to use an easy-out, are a necessity on my line of work.

Look for an INCH POUND torque wrench - 6ft/lbs is pretty light - 72in/lbs is much easier to set and torque to - using a wrench that reads from say 20in/lbs to 200in/lbs. You can get them in mm/kg too.

Yep I'm just trying to source some left-hand drillbits, will have a look at Sulco in a sec. Yes I will definitely go for a lightweight wrench this time, and have a second one for heavier work.

[MSTRS]

Not too big a deal I guess, the reason I was doing the tappets was she idles rough and stalls easily (cold and hot) so wouldn't hurt to check. Haven't got the tools to do valves but can check piston wear and see what the cylinders are like.


Wouldn't it have been easier to do a compression check first? There are lots of reasons for running rough, poor compression on one or more cylinders being a bit down the list.

[cbfb]

Wouldn't it have been easier to do a compression check first? There are lots of reasons for running rough, poor compression on one or more cylinders being a bit down the list.

Nah I couldn't do a compression test because I didn't have an adapter small/long enough to fit. So I went about doing a thorough service as a starting point and found some of the tappets were out.

I have now sourced a compression tester adapter and will be doing a test as soon as the bike's running, but while I've got the head off I can check the bore & pistons anyway.

[ducatilover]

It could be too lean, air leak will cause it to run rough.
I may be able to help at some stage as I am up in Woodville every week or so.

[cbfb]

It could be too lean, air leak will cause it to run rough.
I may be able to help at some stage as I am up in Woodville every week or so.

Thanks, appreciate the offer. Will get it back together (if I can...) and see how it runs, hopefully the good service will sort it out.

[cbfb]

Now then, had the carbs apart tonight, really nice design I usually fear taking carbs to bits these are well easy to work on.

Anyway, going to get the head off tomorrow hopefully. Just wanted some advice... I've got some left-hand drill bits coming and have a correct-sized stud extractor (bit spendy but only get the one chance so gotta do it properly). Question is, am I alright doing this with a handheld mains electric drill? Not got an air drill for the compressor, would like one but not right now. Have seen on TM there's some drill presses for around $50, would this be better?

Also what speed should my drill be going at, should I be going slow or full tilt? I would have thought slow, and was going to spray crc at it to keep it from heating up and snapping (only using a 2mm bit).

Sorry if I seem paranoid but if this goes tits up it'll mean an expensive trip to an engineer!

[ducatilover]

Last stud I drilled I used a hand held drill and lube with (as already said) greage on the bit. I drilled at a reasonably slow speed until it was deep enough to thread in the ezi-out.
I had double sided backing tape and rags everywhere too, just to be sure.

[cbfb]

Last stud I drilled I used a hand held drill and lube with (as already said) greage on the bit. I drilled at a reasonably slow speed until it was deep enough to thread in the ezi-out.
I had double sided backing tape and rags everywhere too, just to be sure.

Right-o, thanks, will give that a go.

[cbfb]

Well just thought I'd let everyone know how it went... Took the head out and covered the entire surface in gaffa tape, then went at it with a LH drill. This proved a bit tricky so I gave it a light tap with a punch to see if that would shift it, luckily for me it came right out. Threads were a bit gnarly, cleaned them up now works sweet, bolt goes in and out perfectly.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[Woodman]

Phew ..................