Dead VFR 800

[liljegren]

My VFR800 motor expired from lack of oil pressure. After disassembling the motor this week, it appears that the front camchain follower has been chewed almost in half by the chain. The reason for this is that the top end of the follower was not in its place, rather off to one side. As far as I can figure out, there is no way the follower can get from the correct position to the incorrect position. This leaves me wondering whether it was installed incorrectly from new?
The oil pickup seive seems to be fouled with non metallic material, probably from the follower.
Could this lead to pressure drop, and engine expiry??
Any thoughts please...

[NinjaNanna]

I'd say yes

[racefactory]

Sorry to hear about the motor. Didn't the oil light come on???

[kiwi cowboy]

Sorry to hear about the motor. Didn't the oil light come on???

By the time you see the oil light its alredy too late most times.:innocent:

[Motu]

$1 reserve - I'll start the bidding.

[AllanB]

Evil man.

You killed a Honda!

[dangerous]

naaaa, ya cant keep a good Honda down... it will be carrying a nice person around again befor you know it.

One of my CX's the oil light was on at idle after it was repaired after a crash for 2000k before it rattled to a stop, LOL cam was melted, but I rebuilt it bigger better stronger and once went from Nelson to Chch with no water due to a pump seal failer, nedle stayed in the red the hole time... I figgered the sooner I get home the better so sat at the ton the hole trip... warped rear casing was the only damage :facepalm:

[liljegren]

Sorry to hear about the motor. Didn't the oil light come on???

Well yes the oil light came on, and after checking the oil level etc, I rode on gently, having convinced myself that the sender was faulty(or something)!!! No bad noises, no leaks, oil level normal. Twenty kms later, bad noises etc. I've since sourced and fitted a new (used) motor ex Oz, all good. What I'm chasing now is the reason for the pressure loss. And yes, I killed a VFR!!!!

[racefactory]

damn that's sad man. What is the damage to the motor exactly? Crank and piston rings shot?

[liljegren]

Damage is not fully diagnosed just yet. Trying to get a handle on the cause, especially if it turns into a factory fault. I'm not really into the blame game, but the motor hasnt been apart, the camchain tensioners are auto, so how the hell did the follower jump out of its allotted position? It's got me stuffed!!!

[kiwi cowboy]

Well yes the oil light came on, and after checking the oil level etc, I rode on gently, having convinced myself that the sender was faulty(or something)!!! No bad noises, no leaks, oil level normal. Twenty kms later, bad noises etc. I've since sourced and fitted a new (used) motor ex Oz, all good. What I'm chasing now is the reason for the pressure loss. And yes, I killed a VFR!!!!

M y guess is that the shavings you talk about on the oil gause has slowed the oil flow down to terminal flow levels so the pump might be working properly but if it cant suck the oil past said shit in gause it cant keep the oil preasure up hence the oil press light came on.

[ducatilover]

Evil man.

You killed a Honda!
'Tis a sad day....


I would say the blocked oil feed hole was the obvious answer, but, how did it get gunk in it?
I had a VT250 motor apart that had 120,000k on the clock and had welded a big end to a rod :shutup: and it was super clean inside and everything was well within spec, excpet the fucked bearing, even the crank was still okay. Good old Honda motors!

[liljegren]

M y guess is that the shavings you talk about on the oil gause has slowed the oil flow down to terminal flow levels so the pump might be working properly but if it cant suck the oil past said shit in gause it cant keep the oil preasure up hence the oil press light came on.

Well Kiwi cowboy, I'm picking were on the same page. What I wanna know is, did the follower jump out of place, or was it installed incorrectly from new? The motor was at 55,000kms when it failed, so if it was like this from new, how come it took so long to wear the follower to the point of failure?

[kiwi cowboy]

Well Kiwi cowboy, I'm picking were on the same page. What I wanna know is, did the follower jump out of place, or was it installed incorrectly from new? The motor was at 55,000kms when it failed, so if it was like this from new, how come it took so long to wear the follower to the point of failure?

First question is has it had a valve clearance chech since new and if so is it possible it got shifted in the process of that service I;E has it got shim clearance that you have to undo the cams.

[liljegren]

Well the latest is that a mechanic in Waipapa reckons that the cam chain tntioner failed, allowing the chain to flap around in the slot, and then skip out of its position, and hence wear away and blind the filter.
At 55,000kms, there had been no need to remove the camchain blades, even for a valve clearance check (I think?). However, I'm wondering whether there is or should be a service interval or check for the tensioners? Anyone?

[dangerous]

sounds about right... did you not here the chain slapping about?

... hang on tho, the VFR's cams are gear driven are they not?

[merv]

Sadly they are chain drive on the newer V-Tec models. Us owners of old gear drive models saw it as a backward step away from the fantastic motors that they were and were reluctant to buy the new models.

This incident only reinforces that opinion.

[ducatilover]

That is a very unusual problem, Honda isn't known for good tensioners, but regardless.... Are the tensioners the lever type like the Vtwins ran?
Any Honda (Except the MVX) should last longer than that, the Viffers are known to be ridiculously solid even with the cam chains.

[vifferman]

That is a very unusual problem, Honda isn't known for good tensioners, but regardless.... Are the tensioners the lever type like the Vtwins ran?
Any Honda (Except the MVX) should last longer than that, the Viffers are known to be ridiculously solid even with the cam chains.
Nope, not unusual at all, at all. (Every Honda I've owned - bar three - has had noisy camchains. The three exceptions: two gear-driven VFRs, and a two-smoke...)
The tensioners consist of self-adjusting sprung pistons pushing on slippers on the longest run of the camchain, at the back of each cylinder bank.
You'da thunk that Honda - after the same problem with VTR1000s (which have the same system) - would've learned, but no. Camchain tensioner failure is not uncommon with the 2002+ VFRs, and like on the VTR, usually afflicts the front tensioner first. The reason (apart from Honda making shit camchains and tensioners) seems to be that the front tensioner gets little oil, the spring craps out, the tensioner shaft backs out, the camchain flaps around, jumps some teeth on the cam, and chaos ensues. The solution? Eternal vigilance. And/or manual tensioners from APE.

As to why the VFRs now have camchains?
Noise.
Honda shifted the cam drive from the centre of the cams to the right-hand end, which made it MUCH noisier, so they adopted 'silent' (until they get worn) camchains. Along with the (non-VTEC) VTEC, which by dint of only two valves per cylinder at emissions (noise and fumes) testing revs, is much quieter.

[ducatilover]

The CB400 had a dead quiet cam chain, but, it wasn't the retarded set up like the Vee engines. My Spada had the cam chain noise cure at 50k, enlarged holes on the tensioner oil feeds, but, by 150,000km she sounded like she had a hammer inside again :facepalm:

Still, got nothing on Kawasaki ZZR/ZXR tensioners....useless things.:shutup:

[gammaguy]

well,it wouldnt be the first time a honda cam chain tensioner has failed now would it??

no wonder the VFR anoraks were lamenting the end of the gear driven cam models

and yes,absolutely the shavings from the shredded chain slipper will cause the mayhem you have experienced.

and you would have heard the chain making a noise before it got to that stage if you knew what it sounded like ,i have heard it before on that very model,so you are not alone.

[liljegren]

Well thanks all for your learned thoughts. I wonder why Mr Honda doesnt deem it necessary to advise we un-initiated to biff the bloody tensioners at some agreed mileage? Perhaps KR should have an aural library of good noises/ bad noises, so we non-mechanics can diagnose issues like mine?

[dangerous]

Perhaps KR should have an aural library of good noises/ bad noises, so we non-mechanics can diagnose issues like mine?

LOL, if you had growen up in the 80's with well rooted XL/XR's where the chains would wear clean through the barrel you would like me be able to hear a loose chain from a hundred yards :facepalm:

[actungbaby]

gee u think honda whould fixed the cam chain issue by know i remember my
80s cbx 400 needing new chain and tensioner, my 1977 xl100 k2 , wore through side
the cylinder , i got it welded right down the side. i think i ring blue wing honda
about the vf 800 engine sounds brzzare to me to have tensioner so out place
cam chains do stetch though


LOL, if you had growen up in the 80's with well rooted XL/XR's where the chains would wear clean through the barrel you would like me be able to hear a loose chain from a hundred yards :facepalm:

[dangerous]

gee u think honda whould fixed the cam chain issue by know i remember my
80s cbx 400 needing new chain and tensioner, my 1977 xl100 k2 , wore through side
the cylinder , i got it welded right down the side.

1st... the cbx like most honda's of that age with the 1st of the auto tensioners had issues cos the tensioners never used the full life of the chain, and manual adjusters lasted for near ever.

2nd I bet the XL had mega miles on it been thashed to hell n back and yes yet still the bike would have been running LOL

[FJRider]

Well thanks all for your learned thoughts. I wonder why Mr Honda doesnt deem it necessary to advise we un-initiated to biff the bloody tensioners at some agreed mileage? Perhaps KR should have an aural library of good noises/ bad noises, so we non-mechanics can diagnose issues like mine?

Most can't hear the bad noises ... over the noise of the loud pipes ... that seem so popular ...

[jonbuoy]

When was the last service & valve check done?