Planning production of electric scooter range

[pea]

Hi all,

Almost completed my scratch-built electric scooter, and I am carrying out market research on possibly going in to production. The plan is to build electric vehicles for urban commuters, starting with a scooter and moving on to other small 1-2 person vehicles. The focus is on individuality and sustainability.

I would appreciate as many people as can be arsed completing a very short survey: http://velectric.co.nz/

Although I plan to built them in NZ, I am thinking Europe would be the biggest market, so feel free to forward this to any European friends you have. Weird, but Germans tend to care more about the environment than kiwis do :)

Cheers,
Peter

p.s. Didn't know where this thread should live, so please move it if required.

[GingerMidget]

Have you tried to register electric scooters for road use here?

It's not impossible, but its certainly enough of a pain in the neck that most people don't bother.

[Bassmatt]

I tried to do the survey but I cant select the last option on any of the questions as it remains in the shaded part of the page.
Dunno if its just me. Im using firefox.
Looks good by they way, best of luck.

[ducatilover]

Done the survey ;)

If I was buying an electric vehicle it would be the KR-Electric Bogan on here build, great to ride and looks like a real bike :yes:

I'm more than happy to help out with building, prototyping, testing etc etc whilst I am in the area.

[pea]

@GingerMidget - yeah, that is the next hurdle :) Any idea what the biggest problems are?
@Bassmatt - thanks for the feedback - I'll check it out. I suspect that your screen is quite small and I need to redesign for smaller screens?
@Ducatilover - thanks for the offer. Great to have people interested! I'll keep you informed. Currently I'm in the middle of 6 coats of marine varnish. Long and tedious process...

[Jantar]

I have also completed the survey.

I am seriously considering importing a Zero-S electric motorcycle, however I would be prepared to hold off if there is a New Zealand made motorcycle that matches its specs. I am NOT interested in a scooter.

I need something that can cruise at open road speeds, has a range of 100 km between charges and can handle dirt roads. The Zero-S manages that requirement.

[avgas]

I have also completed the survey.

I am seriously considering importing a Zero-S electric motorcycle, however I would be prepared to hold off if there is a New Zealand made motorcycle that matches its specs. I am NOT interested in a scooter.

I need something that can cruise at open road speeds, has a range of 100 km between charges and can handle dirt roads. The Zero-S manages that requirement.
What he said.....I am also considering the Brammo Empulse. Something about doing 100mph on a powerdrill turns my dials.

[Jantar]

What he said.....I am also considering the Brammo Empulse. Something about doing 100mph on a powerdrill turns my dials.
The Empulse is currently my second choice.

[bogan]

One of my first thoughts re second commuter only vehicles, is the year ORC. Plug vs pump mileage is about 10% for my electric scoot and petrol bike, which gives a break even point of 1200km per year just to cover the cost of the rego. Could be a marketing issue there?

Have you got a motor/battery/drive set lined up? My estimate is you need around 1-2kwHr of battery capacity, and a 2-5kW motor. Easy to limit the motor in software to comply with moped laws etc.

Also whats your backing like? Need a lot of funding to get the production up to scratch, and a lot to get it through roadworthiness inapections too. Not sure if you have been following the development of the tesla roadster, but the segment in 'revenge of the electric car' was an eye-opener into funding woes associated with vehicle production.


however I would be prepared to hold off if there is a New Zealand made motorcycle that matches its specs.

I'd suggest go with the Zero-S anyway, it would likely take a while for an NZ made bike to become a mature technology. One muppet's conversion in NZ didn't have a waterproofed charging system, and it let all the magic smoke out after a comprehensive wash :sweatdrop Unless you want to do a conversion yourself, in which case plenty of us would be happy to help I'm sure, but it'd probly cost around the same in $ and a lot more of your time, so unless you wan a unique conversion with better running gear, just go with the zero.

[p.dath]

+1. Did the survey. Wouldn't want a scooter. Would also want something that could easily go on a motorway, rather than struggle on a motorway.


One of my first thoughts re second commuter only vehicles, is the year ORC. Plug vs pump mileage is about 10% for my electric scoot and petrol bike, which gives a break even point of 1200km per year just to cover the cost of the rego. Could be a marketing issue there?

I don't know anything about the ORC for an electric motorbike, but surely the ORC for an electric motorbike wouldn't be more than a petrol motorbike? And if the ORC was no more expensive than the petrol version, there wouldn't be any additional rego to recoup?

[p.dath]

Just looking into RUC, have you seen the new law coming into effect, "Road User Charges Act 2012"?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2012/0001/latest/DLM3394830.html?search=ts_act_Road+User+Charges+Ac t+2012_resel_25_h&p=1

Note this new defintition which has been added:

light electric RUC vehicle means a RUC vehicle with—

(a) a gross vehicle mass of 3 500 kilograms or less; and


(b) motive power wholly or partly derived from an external source of electricity


I see a general exemption is approved until 2013 (as in, there are no RUC charges for this class of vehicle). I can't see what the published charge will be after that, but the current cost for a 1 tonne vehicle is $44.31 for 1000km travelled.

[p.dath]

Holy crap, this new act gives the NZTA some serious power for people not paying RUC, such as:


79 Power to issue search warrant in respect of alleged offence


(1) A search warrant may be issued in accordance with section 198 of the Summary Proceedings Act 1957 in relation to an alleged specified offence against this Act.


(2) Subsection (1) applies even though the offence is not punishable by imprisonment.


(3) If a search warrant is issued under section 198 of the Summary Proceedings Act 1957, as provided for by subsection (1), the following provisions of that Act apply as far as they are applicable and with any necessary modifications:

(a) section 198B (which relates to computer access assistance):


(b) section 199 (which relates to the disposal of things seized).




So a search warrant can now be issued, and note 79(3)b - the power to take and dispose of vehicles and you can be compelled to help get extra evidence from your computer(s) [such as passwords, etc]! Cripes.

[pea]

Hi guys,

If you are planning to purchase an electric motorcycle, I would not hold off to purchase mine! This will be some while away. I plan on building an urban commuter vehicle to begin with - likely a scooter shape. My own scratch-build has given me a lot of experience in this department. FYI my scooter does about 40km/h and has a 60km range (1.5 - 2 hours of driving). The cost to charge is minimal, but it does take 6 hours for a full charge. This doesn't matter for most commuters, who can easily get to work and back and plug it in overnight - many commuters would be able to travel almost a week before charging.

@Bogan - don't worry, I am both an experienced entrepreneur (no stranger to investment, funding, setting up business) and have experience building an electric vehicle. For what it is worth I am also an inventor with 7 pending patents. My current set-up is a 1000W hub motor with a 20AH LiFePo4 battery. This may move to closer to 2kw if I can source the right one.

To give you some idea of what I plan to build - definitely NOT mass-market. If this goes ahead we will be low-volume, unique (custom built) electric scooters and later, smaller vehicles (motorcycles, and 2-front-1-rear style vehicles). There are plenty of great brands that cater for other niches, but nothing like this is around. Think of a fusion between Aston Martin and Harley Davidson.

Cheers,
Peter

[avgas]

(2-front-1-rear style vehicles). There are plenty of great brands that cater for other niches, but nothing like this is around. Think of a fusion between Aston Martin and Harley Davidson.
Hmmmm - not one to tell you your own business....but off the top of my head
-Aptera
-EcoBoomer
-Zap
-New Eco
Plus probably countless others that I have forgotten over the years.

Even the fusion idea is not new, with Chevy's/Dodge electric a fusion of Lotus/Westinghouse. And Tesla is fusion of Lotus/Paolo Alto.
Ironically this is what Lotus (on their own) conceived a decade ago
261787

Not to mention the truck load of competition that exists out of china.
How are you going to be any different?

[pea]

Haha! Thanks for links avgas. Many I have heard of, some are out of business, and others are similar but not the same at all.

I have no misconceptions about being unique in every aspect - there are countless electric vehicles of all shapes and sizes, 2-wheels, 3-wheels, and there are plenty who are going down the route of 'extreme eco'. But I feel there are none doing exactly what I want to do. As for all the cheap scooters coming from China - yep, they are competition, but I'm not competing directly with that market in the same way that Kirkcaldie and Stains does not compete with the Warehouse. There are plenty of people who want to buy a $1000 electric scooter from China, and they will never be the same customers who will spring for a high-end unique vehicle like those we are planning.

I am not saying that the 'fusion' concept is new at all, just that the fusion of Aston Martin and Harley Davidson, when applied to electric scooters, would be pretty unique. think of 'Orange County Choppers' and now apply that to electric scooters :)

Our planned point of difference (which is why we're only in market research phase) is to custom-build vehicles to the buyers spec, not just one off the lot. Every one will be pretty unique, and more of a collectors item/art piece than a off-the-lot purchase. This will not appeal to everyone - in fact, probably not to most people - but then we only need relatively low volume to get off the ground.

Cheers,
Peter

[pea]

By the way - I'm not ungrateful!

Thanks for those links and arguments. I welcome as much as possible, because as I said we are only at market research phase, and as much of this stuff that I can look into early on will help. The biggest question to answer for me is YES or NO - I am in no way committed to production yet. Just a plan at this stage.

[bogan]

To give you some idea of what I plan to build - definitely NOT mass-market. If this goes ahead we will be low-volume, unique (custom built) electric scooters and later, smaller vehicles (motorcycles, and 2-front-1-rear style vehicles). There are plenty of great brands that cater for other niches, but nothing like this is around. Think of a fusion between Aston Martin and Harley Davidson.

Personally, I'm not seeing a market for custom scooters, the scooter crowd are generally pretty utilitarian. Then again, maybe that sort of thinking is why nobody else has filled the niche


I don't know anything about the ORC for an electric motorbike, but surely the ORC for an electric motorbike wouldn't be more than a petrol motorbike? And if the ORC was no more expensive than the petrol version, there wouldn't be any additional rego to recoup?

They are the same, but an electric scoot is hardly going to replace your bike, it will be in addition to it as a second vehicle. Hence the extra cost.

[pea]

Personally, I'm not seeing a market for custom scooters
That's exactly why I'm performing market research first. If there is no market, I'm happy to keep making them for myself :)

If you have any more of those links, fire them through.

[avgas]

Ah I get where you coming from. And I do think there is potential..........but not in the way you do (well going off the images on your website).

Do some research on the custom Japanese Scooters - there are some big name builders out there building some fantastic stuff in the market. "Classic looking scooters" get drowned out an flood of Honda Jokers and Chinese "vespa-looking" scooters. This is also what has happened in Europe (which I am sure you research has found).

Where as the Japanese custom scooter market take the approach of building something completely new and different, not based of an old design but based of a new one.

There currently no custom scooter builders in Japan doing an electric variant (as far as I know). So you could head that off. But like I said.....its probably not what your used to..... here are a couple to start the gears turning..

261803
261804

[pea]

Ah fantastic! By far the closest to what I have in mind so far, but from an electric angle. Maybe I should be focussing on Japan rather than Europe? Maybe I should go for 'crazy' instead of 'eco' :P

The images on my website (www.velectric.co.nz (http://www.velectric.co.nz)) are just some I 'borrowed' from BMW. The disclaimer says 'Note: The scooters in the image are not ours. They are electric scooter concepts from MINI. Ours will be way cooler :)'. My initial build is on my blog site www.projectitis.com (http://www.projectitis.com). The first production model will be way different to this again, but more along these lines (timber usage, etc). I'll have more pics in a week or so - I am currently varnishing the fairing and painting the freshly welded frame.

[avgas]

If you want to do low volume custom.......crazy is the only way.

[SMOKEU]

the power to take and dispose of vehicles and you can be compelled to help get extra evidence from your computer(s) [such as passwords, etc]! Cripes.

TrueCrypt. Problem solved.