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Motig
28th August 2012, 21:04
Anybody able to point me to what happens if a person dies without adequate cash to pay outstanding debts? Whose responsible for the bills?. I'm presuming if theres no money to pay the bills that its sort of like being bankrupt. Anybody had this problem, would just like to know for peace of mind.

steve_t
28th August 2012, 21:11
Appears to be a bit of a process. Start here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2006/0055/latest/DLM387733.html

5150
29th August 2012, 10:01
Appears to be a bit of a process. Start here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2006/0055/latest/DLM387733.html

Do you have an English version? :blink:

SMOKEU
29th August 2012, 10:07
Anybody had this problem, would just like to know for peace of mind.

I haven't carked it yet, so I wouldn't know.

Edbear
29th August 2012, 10:49
Unless you have gone security for the debts, they can try suing the deceased or write the debts off. Death is usually inconvenient at the time...

Lozza2442
29th August 2012, 11:05
Anybody able to point me to what happens if a person dies without adequate cash to pay outstanding debts? Whose responsible for the bills?. I'm presuming if theres no money to pay the bills that its sort of like being bankrupt. Anybody had this problem, would just like to know for peace of mind.

...you planning on offing yourself to get out of debt?

Paul in NZ
29th August 2012, 11:19
If a family member of yours has passed away and you are being hounded for the funds I suspect your best course of action is to contact a lawyer asap. It will cost you money but it could save you time...

Alternatively head off down to your local court house or community law office and ask them.

Free advice on the internet is usually worth exactly what you paid for it....

Lozza2442
29th August 2012, 11:22
Usually you just have to give a copy of death cert and the debts go away...

Jantar
29th August 2012, 11:27
The biggest concern is if their estate doesn't cover the cost of the funeral. Then the costs will fall on whoever contracted the funeral director.

Lozza2442
29th August 2012, 11:30
The biggest concern is if their estate doesn't cover the cost of the funeral. Then the costs will fall on whoever contracted the funeral director.

The government does help with this - http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/individuals/a-z-benefits/funeral-grant.html

Jantar
29th August 2012, 12:42
The government does help with this - http://www.workandincome.govt.nz/individuals/a-z-benefits/funeral-grant.html
When my mother-in-law died 6 years ago, that grant barely covered cost of the cheapest coffin and nothing else.

There is also this from the ODT: http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/189718/nz-funeral-expenses-claim-total-hokum


There were also much cheaper options; $2500 for the most basic.

Cut-price funerals were increasingly in demand, presumably because of hard economic times, he said.

Funeral directors subsidised funerals for the most vulnerable people as a "social service" , as the $1925 Work and Income grant did not cover the most basic funeral, Mr Garing said.

oneofsix
29th August 2012, 13:10
The biggest concern is if their estate doesn't cover the cost of the funeral. Then the costs will fall on whoever contracted the funeral director.

This CAB info may help
http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/fp/d/Pages/Funeralsregistrationofdeath.aspx#8

Warning: This may sound crass
Do you have to have a funeral? What about donating the remains to science? Saw a programme on Otago Uni trainee Doctors using donated bodies for training, didn't know this happened until I stumbled on the doco. Hadn't previously considered how the Doc got their training.

jasonu
29th August 2012, 13:22
Don't mean to be crass either but consider creamation as an alternative to burial if funds are an issue.

Phantom Limb
29th August 2012, 13:25
Don't mean to be crass either but consider creamation as an alternative to burial if funds are an issue.

+1

Saved heaps getting mum grilled! <_<

Lozza2442
29th August 2012, 14:20
This CAB info may help
http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/fp/d/Pages/Funeralsregistrationofdeath.aspx#8

Warning: This may sound crass
Do you have to have a funeral? What about donating the remains to science? Saw a programme on Otago Uni trainee Doctors using donated bodies for training, didn't know this happened until I stumbled on the doco. Hadn't previously considered how the Doc got their training.

Hell, even if you do want a funeral you should donate your body to science. Just have a closed casket. Most people wont know the difference. It's just a place for people to come together to mourn regardless of if there's any body.

oneofsix
29th August 2012, 14:24
Hell, even if you do want a funeral you should donate your body to science. Just have a closed casket. Most people wont know the difference. It's just a place for people to come together to mourn regardless of if there's any body.

I'll be happy (well I wont be there) if they just throw me on the bonfire like a Guy and have a F'ing good party.

pzkpfw
29th August 2012, 14:49
I'll be happy (well I wont be there) if they just throw me on the bonfire like a Guy and have a F'ing good party.

That's how I feel. I used to tell my Wife that after my cremation she can just flush my ashes.

(Then I realised funerals are for the living, so told her to do whatever she wants.)

I'm fully on board with being a donor or science teaching tool. My left-over meat may as well be of use to someone.

My body will provide one last bit of humour.



(Oh, and funeral directors don't subsidise the funerals of the less-well-off. Everybody else who does pay for their own funeral does.)

Motig
29th August 2012, 16:25
Thank you to those who offered constructive advice. Funeral costs are OK its the outstanding bills that are the problem.

hayd3n
29th August 2012, 16:27
claim your maori and ask them to write it iff what the crown owed them?? ???
:shutup:

jafar
29th August 2012, 16:54
Thank you to those who offered constructive advice. Funeral costs are OK its the outstanding bills that are the problem.


All this is sorted out through probate. 1st in line is the funeral director, 2nd is the IRD, 3rd is outstanding accounts & that kind of thing.4th is the dispersal of the remaining funds (if any) to whoever is in the will.
Probate often takes around 6 months, longer if there wasn't a will. Longer still if there is someone contesting the will.

The relatives are not liable for the bills of the dearly departed.

Jantar
29th August 2012, 17:35
All this is sorted out through probate. 1st in line is the funeral director, 2nd is the IRD, 3rd is outstanding accounts & that kind of thing.4th is the dispersal of the remaining funds (if any) to whoever is in the will.
Probate often takes around 6 months, longer if there wasn't a will. Longer still if there is someone contesting the will.

The relatives are not liable for the bills of the dearly departed.

My understanding is that the funeral director is contracted by the relatives BEFORE the will has been read and before probate. The estate should pay for the funeral director, but if there are insufficient funds then the relatives are responsible. This I am sure of after having to help meet the outstanding costs of my mother-in-law's funeral.

jafar
29th August 2012, 17:45
My understanding is that the funeral director is contracted by the relatives BEFORE the will has been read and before probate. The estate should pay for the funeral director, but if there are insufficient funds then the relatives are responsible. This I am sure of after having to help meet the outstanding costs of my mother-in-law's funeral.

When my mum died , we contacted the funeral director & they did the job, but they were paid by the estate. If there was insufficient funds in the estate to pay the funeral director then thats another situation altogether.

The OP said that funeral expenses were not the issue, the issue is with bills that the deceased had not paid before their demise.

Jantar
29th August 2012, 17:51
....The OP said that funeral expenses were not the issue, the issue is with bills that the deceased had not paid before their demise.

Those bills are paid out of the estate after taxes, fines etc. If there is insufficient left to cover them then the family are not responsible.

Mom
29th August 2012, 17:59
You cant pay bills if you are dust or 6 feet under that is a simple fact. However, the deceased estate can be called upon to settle debts incurred prior to death.

Hopefully there is a will that names the executor/s. Any money the Estate holds must go to the Funeral director as the first call, then as jafar says IRD will want what they are owed. A complete financial statement should be prepared, taking into account ALL expenses related to the grant of probate and administration of the estate. If there is no will then the process takes longer and I feel sorry for you. Most companies will write off a debt if they can see that pusuing it is pointless, communicate with them.

You need to get yourself some legal advice. Some legal firms will provide you with this sort of advice for free if you ask first and tell them you have no money, else go to a community law office.

Best of luck, sorry you are in this position.

Bald Eagle
29th August 2012, 18:00
I'll be happy (well I wont be there) if they just throw me on the bonfire like a Guy and have a F'ing good party.

Weird - tried to add rep - yeah need a good wake got some pop saying thanks for deducting rep - never seen that before ?

jafar
29th August 2012, 18:02
Those bills are paid out of the estate after taxes, fines etc. If there is insufficient left to cover them then the family are not responsible.

Thats what I said:

#20 The relatives are not liable for the bills of the dearly departed.

1st in line is the funeral director
2nd is the IRD (fines,unpaid tax,etc)
3rd is the deceased liabilities (bills)
4th is the dispersement of the deceased estate to those mentioned in the will, assuming there is a will.

carburator
29th August 2012, 19:38
ive seen this happen before relatives being chased for debts of the deceased.

gather up all the bills, if a person is hammering on the door demanding get them
to put it all in writing or at least present a leagal copy of the original loan or purchase document
( if they can't tell them to fark off )

do not shell out on shenkal or promise to cover bills

see a lawyer with all the paperwork..

tigertim20
30th August 2012, 18:07
This CAB info may help
http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/fp/d/Pages/Funeralsregistrationofdeath.aspx#8

Warning: This may sound crass
Do you have to have a funeral? What about donating the remains to science? Saw a programme on Otago Uni trainee Doctors using donated bodies for training, didn't know this happened until I stumbled on the doco. Hadn't previously considered how the Doc got their training.

My ex did medicine at Otago. apparently they already have an overflow. they have far more bodies than they need being currently donated

Winston001
1st September 2012, 00:56
All this is sorted out through probate. 1st in line is the funeral director, 2nd is the IRD, 3rd is outstanding accounts & that kind of thing.4th is the dispersal of the remaining funds (if any) to whoever is in the will.
Probate often takes around 6 months, longer if there wasn't a will. Longer still if there is someone contesting the will.

The relatives are not liable for the bills of the dearly departed.


Anybody able to point me to what happens if a person dies without adequate cash to pay outstanding debts? Whose responsible for the bills?. I'm presuming if theres no money to pay the bills that its sort of like being bankrupt.

Jafar is correct except that probate would not even be considered. A bankrupt dead person is just the same as a bankrupt live one. If there is no money or assets, creditors do not get paid.

I've administered one or two bankrupt estates over the years, pro bono and usually to help the family out.