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View Full Version : Any TL owners done an airbox mod?



soundbeltfarm
16th November 2005, 19:54
just been looking through the jiffy park website and saw the joe Vs airbox mod and was wondering if any one here has done it?

Bleck K6
16th November 2005, 21:18
Yeah I removed the flapper valves in the airbox of the TLR, The TLS is different, DEATH has done the airbox mod to a TLS, send him a pm.

saul
17th November 2005, 05:24
Mate I did.

If you have a TLs thens Joes mod is not the right one for you.

The TLs airbox mod is a little more complicated:blip:

Did it make a lot of differance? Well it was fun to do:banana: and seat of the pants dyno said that it felt better.

Check out rupes site he gives a great blow by blow (and pics) link off tlplanet:banana:

Lou Girardin
17th November 2005, 07:49
The only instance I know of, the new owner put it back to standard to make it run right.

Sensei
17th November 2005, 08:00
Karl don't fuck with it . Put a K&N into it & leave it alone . Make's me laugh these peolpe that think they know better than a Company that spend's Million's on developing these bike's . Why do you think they put out motor's with 170hp Standard with out fucken cut hole's in airbox's etc ??? Think about play with it & you'll create another problem some where else !!

soundbeltfarm
17th November 2005, 08:11
yeah i wasn't going to touch it. it has enough for me.
just interesting to see if anyone has done it.
i only want to get a TRE to see if that helps running in town speeds.
they have changed the mapping from the 97 to the 98 i think, would hate to see it with the 97 mapping.

Sensei
17th November 2005, 08:47
They changed the mapping as it was to Nasty & the bike would wheelie all to time even coming out of corner's which made afew poeple crash so they retarded it to soften it alittle . Bugger cann't have that now :mad:

FzerozeroT
17th November 2005, 11:05
Karl don't fuck with it . Put a K&N into it & leave it alone . Make's me laugh these peolpe that think they know better than a Company that spend's Million's on developing these bike's . Why do you think they put out motor's with 170hp Standard with out fucken cut hole's in airbox's etc ??? Think about play with it & you'll create another problem some where else !!

right in one sense, but as always they have to work with compromises such as noise regulations, emissions, fuel consumption, mass production and manufacturing costs. So the problems you may have could include increased airbox noise, increased pollutants and the hours it will take you to cut and tidy the airbox, maybe for no increase in any other area? Do what I did and buy another airbox and work on that (RGV - made no difference)

The other thing to point out is that some manufacturers spend millions on developing a bike and are forced to put it on the street 'as is' because you can only spend so many million on one model, I remember one manufacturer bought out this shitty Rotary Damping on two of thier models, I pity the poor bastards who own one of those ;)

Bleck K6
17th November 2005, 13:27
right in one sense, but as always they have to work with compromises such as noise regulations, emissions, fuel consumption, mass production and manufacturing costs. So the problems you may have could include increased airbox noise, increased pollutants and the hours it will take you to cut and tidy the airbox, maybe for no increase in any other area? Do what I did and buy another airbox and work on that (RGV - made no difference)

The other thing to point out is that some manufacturers spend millions on developing a bike and are forced to put it on the street 'as is' because you can only spend so many million on one model, I remember one manufacturer bought out this shitty Rotary Damping on two of thier models, I pity the poor bastards who own one of those ;)

Agree with you on this one,Like the exhaust valve on the gsxr1000 it may help revs low down but is louder and increases flow without and increases HP with it gone.So they may be useful if you putt around town.
Funny how the airbox and exhaust valves are shut at half revs where they test noise and emissions.
If you think they did all the research to make the bike perfect why would you bother putting exhaust,filter,TRE, power commander etc.

F5 Dave
17th November 2005, 16:51
A friend of mine was testing a particular bike on the dyno which had all manner of snorkels & restrictors etc. He took them off & lost a bunch of power, so put them back on & found it did better without only one of them no matter what was done to the jetting. Always beware when changing the restriction of the intake how easy it is to adjust the fuelling to suit.

On my YZF (carb’d rather than FI of course) I fitted a K&N & lost a bunch of horsepower till I jetted up, as it flowed better, but sadly the power on the best jets was exactly the same as before. The power restriction must be elsewhere in this case.

Also keep in mind air likes to flow over smooth rounded surfaces rather than sharp holes. Those holes sure will make it 'sound' faster. Hmmph.

cowpoos
19th November 2005, 08:55
Karl don't fuck with it . Put a K&N into it & leave it alone . Make's me laugh these peolpe that think they know better than a Company that spend's Million's on developing these bike's . Why do you think they put out motor's with 170hp Standard with out fucken cut hole's in airbox's etc ??? Think about play with it & you'll create another problem some where else !!

thats wrong sensei....the reason it was restricted so badly is to do with emisions....and airbox noise.... In the original press realeses on the TL motors they were sitting on display with huge airboxes attached to them...almost double the size of what is on the tls from factory...

go and have a read up on the TL airbox mod sensei....its not about masacering the airbox...its about un-restricting it....as the main entry to the airbox is a few mm smaller than one of the throttle bodies...

cowpoos
19th November 2005, 09:07
right in one sense, but as always they have to work with compromises such as noise regulations, emissions, fuel consumption, mass production and manufacturing costs. So the problems you may have could include increased airbox noise, increased pollutants and the hours it will take you to cut and tidy the airbox, maybe for no increase in any other area? Do what I did and buy another airbox and work on that (RGV - made no difference)

The other thing to point out is that some manufacturers spend millions on developing a bike and are forced to put it on the street 'as is' because you can only spend so many million on one model, I remember one manufacturer bought out this shitty Rotary Damping on two of thier models, I pity the poor bastards who own one of those ;)


:2thumbsup right on FT [by the way is your name ment to be a clever way of been names FOOT? ]
And yes the rotary damper is a peice of shit...spend your money on suspension...ohlins rear shock and get the front forks re-valved...ring robert taylor and hawera motorcycles....makes a massive difference to the bike...and treats rear tyres alot better...Fzerozerot has seen how nicely the rear of my bike wears its tyre at a taupo a few weeks ago [and no I wasn't riding like a nana]....rear shock will cost ya $1256 and forks $950 sounds like alot...but you will be grinning from ear to ear...the difference is amazing...the front forks track increadible tight through high speed corners....and they feel planted...and the shock is brillent...I can scrape the foot pegs on my TL....before...shit you would be mad if you were [loosebruce is mad and he probally did]

Good to see you got the TLs....hows it going....enjoying it??? I hope your gunna replace that shit standard steering damper with a ohlins!!! they make the steering a whole lot lighter!!!

soundbeltfarm
19th November 2005, 09:14
funny you talk about the damper i changed the oil in it last night from 5W to 2.5W and it feels alot better.

i seen robert last weekend and he told me about the suspension it would be good but the cost puts me off a bit at the moment.
shaun also does ohlins and he giving me some tyres cheap so will prob deal through him.

cowpoos
19th November 2005, 09:21
yeah the cost does seem high....but the difference is worth it....now that I've done it...I would have paid twice that for the work....

Ps:the payouts gone up to $4....I'm sure u have a lil more spending money???
hows your production going? I'm canning it over here....last year the sharemilker did 170,292kg/ms with 470cows with meal and maize....I'm on target for 183,000 with 450 cows....[all grass]

soundbeltfarm
19th November 2005, 09:28
we are averaging 9o solids a day above last year.
about 9.5%ahead for the season on last year too.
its all going good here we milking 270 here.
you 50%?
it our first 50% job into our second year of 3 yr term and landowner asked us to sign on for a further 3 yr term so prob will and look at equity partnerships because farms so expensive.
we looking at aussie at the moment too, just so we done have the capital gains to go against plus no need to buy shares.

what you looking at doing?

cowpoos
19th November 2005, 09:41
I'm lower order....but own the machinery....tractors,wagons,bikes,etc...

and looking at everything and anything...I still believ farm owner ship isn't the far off dream alot of people think it is...and I can sit down with you...with a caulculator and show you some figures...its all relitive...I do have a keen interest in real estate...commercial and industrial...and thats where I'll be looking in the future at this stage....I'm waiting for all the morgagee sales to start happening in the next 2-4yrs after the boom thats been happining

sounds like the owner is more than happy with ya...

F5 Dave
21st November 2005, 08:58
...its about un-restricting it....as the main entry to the airbox is a few mm smaller than one of the throttle bodies...

Why I this an indication of restriction?

If you put this airbox on a flow bench then you may erroneously draw that conclusion.

BUT, an internal combustion engine does not have its inlet open the whole time, or anywhere near it. In fact on a 4 stroke, bearing in mind the wasted exhaust stroke this time is no where near constant.

From a flow point of view & ignoring any resonant effects, as long as the airbox is big enough for sustaining a gulp of cylinder then itís not such a drama as a cursory inspection may ascertain.

cowpoos
21st November 2005, 09:57
Why I this an indication of restriction?

If you put this airbox on a flow bench then you may erroneously draw that conclusion.

BUT, an internal combustion engine does not have its inlet open the whole time, or anywhere near it. In fact on a 4 stroke, bearing in mind the wasted exhaust stroke this time is no where near constant.

From a flow point of view & ignoring any resonant effects, as long as the airbox is big enough for sustaining a gulp of cylinder then itís not such a drama as a cursory inspection may ascertain.

airbox noise is caused by fricton....right....air fricton....a loud airbox will have alot of air friction....right....the fricton is cause by resrictions....right???

also...the larger the airbox volume and less resticted the airbox entry...the less vacumm there will be in the inlet tract at any given time...when vacumm is created the air is less dense....so per cubic centimetre of air there is less oxegen available for the burn....which is the main limiting factor of every engine...all engines are....is a air pump....the more air you can pump through the more power you can make....its a very simple concept thats lost on many people....

F5 Dave
21st November 2005, 10:28
airbox noise is caused by fricton....right....air fricton....a loud airbox will have alot of air friction....right....the fricton is cause by resrictions....right???
....


Man I’m glad I don’t have to talk to you in person. What’s with all the . . . & the ‘Right’

Do you want to pat me on the head as well?

PS: Just saying Right doesn’t make it so.


airbox noise is caused by fricton....right....air fricton....a loud airbox will have alot of air friction....right....the fricton is cause by resrictions....right???
....

So what you are saying is that for quieter bikes we should throw away all the restrictions on our airboxes & have dirty big entries? Have you told the Japanese this? Perhaps this will solve all our noise issues.


Hold on. Didn’t you just say that the reason they were airbox restricted was due to noise problems?

Gee I’m confused.

FzerozeroT
21st November 2005, 10:29
airbox noise is caused by resonance, and hate to burst your bubble but it's not as easy as bigger inlets = more power.

Valves are getting smaller to aid in fluid dynamics, an inlet valve is only open 1/4 of the time so the air will be starting and stopping all the time, but also air is like a fluid so you can work out that at the outside of your trumpet the air is at constant velocity and at the valve the air is starting and stopping completely, in betwen the air is being compressed by the force (inertia) of the incoming air and so when the valve opens there is a moment where the air pressure is greater than atmospheric, by making the runners to the valves smaller the pressure wave can be made greater. This then adds a 'supercharging' effect to the engine at certain RPM's, giving the bike a 'powerband'.

Don't all threads just end up going round in circles :D

F5 Dave
21st November 2005, 10:32
Oh no no, Itís a very simple concept lost on very simple people like us. I read it on the internet.

Fortunately we have been enlightened. Recant your heresy.

TLDV8
21st November 2005, 11:14
http://photos.imageevent.com/tldv8/airfiltertls/websize/Restriction.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/tldv8/airfiltertls/Filter1.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tldv8/airfiltertls/Filter2.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tldv8/airfiltertls/Filter3.jpg

>

http://www.tl1k.com/Mods/Airbox.htm

cowpoos
21st November 2005, 11:30
airbox noise is caused by resonance, and hate to burst your bubble but it's not as easy as bigger inlets = more power.

Valves are getting smaller to aid in fluid dynamics, an inlet valve is only open 1/4 of the time so the air will be starting and stopping all the time, but also air is like a fluid so you can work out that at the outside of your trumpet the air is at constant velocity and at the valve the air is starting and stopping completely, in betwen the air is being compressed by the force (inertia) of the incoming air and so when the valve opens there is a moment where the air pressure is greater than atmospheric, by making the runners to the valves smaller the pressure wave can be made greater. This then adds a 'supercharging' effect to the engine at certain RPM's, giving the bike a 'powerband'.

Don't all threads just end up going round in circles :D

If we look at drag bike/car engines especially ones not limited by capacity...the path they use for large HP in no airbox/largest valves possible NO2 [33% oxegen] and or super/turbo charging....if your talking about limited capacities...Ie: 600cc motorbikes....your having to mutliply torque from huge RPM's to generate good HP figures from that engine size...thats where your talking about working with air velocity...to fill the cylinder in fractions of fractions of a second...and by keeping the airspeed high you can achieve a high flow of air in a given time...and by keeping the airspeed up your right that it can cause a build up of presure at the inlet valve...by having the inlet passage way taper down in size from the tumpet to the back of the valve...
but I woun't imagine you would be able to get a higher than atmoshpere pressure or even close to it [14.7psi or 1bar] with this effect...
The opposite work with exhuast systems...tuners will tune an exhuast using the soncic wave and and exhuast speed to create a moment of vacuum just at the point the next exhuast valve opens...and that add's in scavenging exhuast gases out of the cyclinder alowing incoming fuel air mixture to travel with less restriction into the cylinder...

and yes the noises are caused by resonances....but....the resonances are cause by...air friction...which are caused by restrictions....and movement of air back and forth in the airbox [starting and stoping movement]...which causes low frequency noises from fast moving air waves coliding with each other...and the higher frequency sounds are caused by the air passing through over and along surfaces...take the air box away...and it will lower the intake noises...

in saying what I've said...a engine thats designed in the way I'm suggesting...will never run at low or even mid RPM's

cowpoos
21st November 2005, 11:37
Man Iím glad I donít have to talk to you in person. Whatís with all the . . . & the ĎRightí

Do you want to pat me on the head as well?

PS: Just saying Right doesnít make it so.



So what you are saying is that for quieter bikes we should throw away all the restrictions on our airboxes & have dirty big entries? Have you told the Japanese this? Perhaps this will solve all our noise issues.


Hold on. Didnít you just say that the reason they were airbox restricted was due to noise problems?

Gee Iím confused.

sorry about the right,right shit....thats how I was thinking so it fell out of my head and on to the keyboard...I hope no offence was takin...

The restrictions put into airboxes are for many different reasons [low rpm running,emissions,etc]...and they also use resonate chambers to quieten them
which is a form of airbox silencing....which causes more restrictions

FzerozeroT
21st November 2005, 11:54
sorry, I was meaning 0.1 bar (example) of extra pressure, as the air that is sitting in my hand right now is at 1 bar. or are you talking about the fact that the vacuum is pulling the air in so the pressure in the inlet tube will be a net vaccuum? doesn't really matter because we both know what we mean :blink:

I can't agree with you on the friction creates noise issue though, I'm going to stick with the harmonics of the wavelength of sound :Pokey:

F5 Dave
21st November 2005, 12:02
re those links:
The magazine guy was concluding that the Ďrestrictioní if any was likely downstream of the filter, ie: connecting to the throttle bodies. It could however be that the engine just isnít keen to flow anymore, as I found with my 750.

The piece I like best is the chap making the airbox mods.



I have yet to ride the bike with this mod in place as I still have some other work to do but its likely I will need to remap the PC II to accomodate the higher air flow. By all accounts though this is a very worthwhile mod.

Sorry? That last sentence is just hilarious! How does he know?

Iíve done something so therefore it is worthwhile. Ipso facto.

TLDV8
21st November 2005, 12:10
I'm a bit lost with this thread,who here actually has a TL1000S ?...and is actually familiar with them on a hands on nature?

F5 Dave
21st November 2005, 12:13
pass. They pull good wheelies though.

Thinking about it a more valid mod than airbox hole enlargement would be a tank reduction mod so they don't get in the way of your elbows. Maybe a thick towel & a lump hammer. :bash: Post the pics.

cowpoos
21st November 2005, 12:14
I can't agree with you on the friction creates noise issue though, I'm going to stick with the harmonics of the wavelength of sound :Pokey:

moving air generates sound waves...low sounds are caused by large movments of air slowly...right up to high frequency which is caused by small amounts of air moving incredibly fast...harmonics [correct me if I'm wrong] are caused by vibrations...either fast or slow.....to cause a vibrations you have to have some form of movement...air movement creates sound because of the fricton caused with air particles moving at,with,through,around,etc other air particles...I know what you mean about the wave lenghts of sound but I don't believe thats the cause...thats the explianation of the effect it creates

cowpoos
21st November 2005, 12:20
I'm a bit lost with this thread,who here actually has a TL1000S ?...and is actually familiar with them on a hands on nature?

I have one....

and yeah...this is abit of the thread hijack really...

twins like large airbox's....theres a long time lenght between [90 degree v twin 360 degrees] inlet valves opening...and they are genrally unable to develop high air velocity speeds...short,large intake trumpets/throttle bodies + large airbox will make a twin happy...but will also make it not as happy about idling nicely....but who cares about idling...lol

bungbung
21st November 2005, 12:23
take the air box away...and it will lower the intake noises...

in saying what I've said...a engine thats designed in the way I'm suggesting...will never run at low or even mid RPM's

It is induction noise, and when compared to open carbs (or throttle bodies) an airbox reduces the induction noise by reducing the difference in air pressure seen at the intake end.

Try it on your own car or bike.

saul
21st November 2005, 17:23
I'm a bit lost with this thread,who here actually has a TL1000S ?...and is actually familiar with them on a hands on nature?

:stupid:

As stated earlier I have had a couple and done the mod:banana: If you grab a spare airbox well worth it if you like to do things like this:2thumbsup

If you don't, well not to worry:blip:

The link that v8 put in to Rupes pics is the one that I followed sort of.

I did get a spare airbox of tlplanet first though, as I was a little nervous and didn't want to be off the road if I screwed it up.

BurnCycle
22nd November 2005, 06:31
Some shots from when I modified my airbox... Click me (http://www.mariposaderojo.com/categories.php?cat_id=18).

loosebruce
23rd November 2005, 16:12
Me and Death chopped the flaper out and made the inlet tract as large as possible, only reason i did it was cause the bike was in peices and the airbox was there, so thought hey why not, otherwise i prolly couldnt be arsed with it. Any difference, well hard to say, the last time i rode it to the time i rode after the mod had been done the bike was very different, very.

DEATH_INC.
25th November 2005, 18:12
When I did the first box (no lb's one) the main thing I did was to increase the quality of the airflow,less turbulence means a faster smoother flow which charges the box more between pulses.

mikey
25th November 2005, 18:48
no airbox on the nsr made it run really good for 100kmh even revved out in top. then blew up.
dont fuck with the airbox

TLRulz
25th November 2005, 18:58
Holy shit you guys know alot of stuff!!

Munterman
25th November 2011, 19:50
Im trying to screw another few ponies from the TLS, not that it really needs it. Has TRE & K&N hi flow. (Was looking at a BMC but unsure if it was sufficient for urban air quality?)

Question I have is can you fit a TLR airbox, as they have more air cc?

cowpoos
26th November 2011, 09:38
Im trying to screw another few ponies from the TLS, not that it really needs it. Has TRE & K&N hi flow. (Was looking at a BMC but unsure if it was sufficient for urban air quality?)

Question I have is can you fit a TLR airbox, as they have more air cc?

You might want to sign up to TLplanet or similar TL forum....those guys know the bikes inside out!! and theres already heaps of info on there.

wilber
26th November 2011, 22:27
Coopoos is spot re tlpanet and tlzone you will find all you need to know at either of them or sign up theres many pages of mods that can be done or just ask a question very helpful group of people.
The airbox mod will help and the +mod which increases the voltage to coils and iridion spark plugs will add a few hp's.

bsasuper
27th November 2011, 09:52
Ive seen a ducati on the dyno with the top half of airbox off, during the runup you could see a mist of fuel floating and resonating about 4" above the inlet trumpets, and the inlet sounded just as loud as the exhaust.