"Take Out" a Rider!

[zadok]

A San Francisco radio host advocates "taking out" riders. Retracted and offered an apology real quick. What a jerk.

"About a week ago, a popular San Francisco-area radio host (Woody, of 105.3) made some seriously anti-motorcycling comments in his morning broadcast. According to numerous reports that have been posted on the web, Woody told his listeners "One of my pet-peeves is people on motorcycles who think they don't have to wait in traffic like everybody else... Nothing would make me happier than to watch somebody, and I've actually seen this happen, somebody open a door and take you out as you are trying to squeeze through..."

Full story with apology: http://www.motorcycledaily.com/17january06_woody.htm

[yungatart]

Hope that idea doesn't catch on here...

[scumdog]

Frkn jerk - it's all about me me me - so you stop the rider eh? How much further did that get YOU?

Just voicing my thoughts!

[merv]

How do you get on lane splitting in the rush hour in the riviera of the south SD? You reckon it would be as bad as SF or are the cage drivers happy to sit stuck in the line without opening their door on you?

[bugjuice]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=23313

[Jantar]

How do you get on lane splitting in the rush hour in the riviera of the south SD? You reckon it would be as bad as SF or are the cage drivers happy to sit stuck in the line without opening their door on you?

I have ridden through the Riviera of the South during rush hour. Both cars allowed me free passage. :scooter:

But the trucks? Oh boy. They make you wait at the intersection by the bridge for ages.

[Bob]

Now here is a thought. How many Kiwibiker members are there? If we all emailed his employers to complain at what was tantamount to suggesting trying to maim or even kill another human being, he might have to do more than apologise.

And what is his beef? I was in San Francsisco only a couple of months ago... and the traffic flow there is superb. OK, on the run in from the airport it got a bit backed up, but in the centre of town (where we were staying) it flowed really well. So someone wants to ride past? Good luck to them.

We used to get attitudes like that over here in the UK - thankfully it has changed and many car drivers will move over to allow you some space to filter/lane split. You do still get the odd saddo that does want to stop you moving past though.

But back to the DJ... maybe they should transfer the jerk to LA... then he'd see all about traffic problems!

[98tls]

Now here is a thought. How many Kiwibiker members are there? If we all emailed his employers to complain at what was tantamount to suggesting trying to maim or even kill another human being, he might have to do more than apologise.
another bike site i spend alot of time on did exactly that,sent a heap of emails to the radio station,the guy had just moved there and came from another state where lane splitting was illegal,still a bloody stupid thing to say but after all the shit he caused i doubt he will say it again.

[Gremlin]

What an excellent lesson he learnt. Meh, its only a biker, take him out.

Yeah mate, wait till the whole lot hear about that. I doubt he'll ever do that again. :killingme

[Lou Girardin]

Deliberately antagonising someone in the nation of "the right to keep and bear arms"?
Who was it that described spring in LA as the smell of fresh grass, the call of the birds and the buzz of 9mm rounds.

[Storm]

Give his home address and a copy of his thoughts to the local Hells Angels and any other heavy crews in the area. The problem will sort itself out right smartly then

[KATWYN]

Its kinda true tho....why do motorcyclists have to jump the que - cos thats
what it is. I can see how cage drivers would get peeved. - specially cos
they can't.

[Jackrat]

Yeah the guys a total wank.
But on a slightly happier note,a rather large mate of mine "known to a lot of people from KB actualy "but I won't mention his name cause he might hit me" did have somebody open a door on him one day.
He was riding a scooter at the time "a quite old scooter it was.:msn-wink:
Anyway the wally that opened the door was driving a van and had the window open so our hero unable to stop in time gave it some berrys instead.
The out come was his head going through the open window and the door being torn clean off the van.
He carried on for a short distance with the door hanging around his neck but not hurt in anyway.
I don't know what happened next because we where fairly pissed when he told us about it an I was laughing to much to catch the last bit.
An yeah that DJ needs a slap aye!

[scumdog]

How do you get on lane splitting in the rush hour in the riviera of the south SD? You reckon it would be as bad as SF or are the cage drivers happy to sit stuck in the line without opening their door on you?

You mean we're allowed a 'rush hour' here???:wacko: AND lane splitting??

When I find out what both are I'll let you know:motu:

[scumdog]

I have ridden through the Riviera of the South during rush hour. Both cars allowed me free passage. :scooter:

But the trucks? Oh boy. They make you wait at the intersection by the bridge for ages.

I know what you mean Jantar - had to wait nearly a whole minute the other day - really get to you eh?

[Grumpy]

Its kinda true tho....why do motorcyclists have to jump the que - cos thats
what it is. I can see how cage drivers would get peeved. - specially cos
they can't.

Had this topic raised at work a while ago and my reply was " because we can"
Look at it this way... when it rains we get wet, when it's cold we freeze, when some idiot pulls out in front of us we hurt and when there is a queue we get to the front. Motorcycling. Don't ya love it!

[Bob]

Had this topic raised at work a while ago and my reply was " because we can."
Look at it this way... when it rains we get wet, when it's cold we freeze, when some idiot pulls out in front of us we hurt and when there is a queue we get to the front. Motorcycling. Don't ya love it!

Couldn't have put it better myself. If (and you are here in the UK... and in San Francisco, as far as I know) you are allowed to filter/lane split, then why not? The major advantage of a bike is our relative size - we can squeeze into gaps that other vehicles cannot dream of doing. So why not use our advantage to move to the front?

We also accelerate way faster than pretty much anything else on the road.

So put these two factors together; we move to the front... then are heading off from the other road users before they can even begin to pull away. You could even say that by doing so, we are helping traffic flow!

[KATWYN]

So put these two factors together; we move to the front... then are heading off from the other road users before they can even begin to pull away.


....And be the first in line for the red light runner.....

Grumpy you have a good point- "because we can"- but that sorta thing winds psychos "that can't" up - so they take opportune moments like
tailgating,pulling into our lanes,opening doors,they pull out in front of us (something they wouldn't do if it was a truck coming- but its only a bike), they try & intimidate us with their big four wheel drive vehicles,yell out abuse from their windows and are just general nuisences to other motorcyclists "because they can"

Then if something does happen, they can just say they never saw us "because they can"

[Patch]

....they pull out in front of us (something they wouldn't do if it was a truck coming- but its only a bike),

I've had more people pull out in front of me when I've been driving my 22,000 kg concrete truck than when I've been on my little 200 kg bike. Go figure. I don't think some care what you are driving when they decide to risk life and pull out in front of someone. Idiots - seems to be more of the little bastards everyday.:brick:

[Jackrat]

I've had more people pull out in front of me when I've been driving my 22,000 kg concrete truck than when I've been on my little 200 kg bike. Go figure. I don't think some care what you are driving when they decide to risk life and pull out in front of someone. Idiots - seems to be more of the little bastards everyday.:brick:

Funny I get the same thing,several of the buggers each day.
I'm thinking they reckon their fast enough to get away with it.
I'm not looking foward to the day I'm not on the ball an run one of the clowns over.
They wouldn't be so keen if they knew it was me constantly looking out for them an just how crap my brakes really are.
Who would be a bloody train driver huh???

[Bob]

....And be the first in line for the red light runner.....

Grumpy you have a good point- "because we can"- but that sorta thing winds psychos "that can't" up - so they take opportune moments like
tailgating,pulling into our lanes,opening doors,they pull out in front of us (something they wouldn't do if it was a truck coming- but its only a bike), they try & intimidate us with their big four wheel drive vehicles,yell out abuse from their windows and are just general nuisances to othermotorcyclists "because they can"

Then if something does happen, they can just say they never saw us "because they can"

End of the day, it is freedom of choice. If you want to sit 200 vehicles back in the queue, then do so. If you want to use your bike's natural advantage and slip between the lines of traffic to the front... and it is legal... then do so.

Personally, I don't do a lot of filtering/lane splitting. If traffic has stopped at the lights, then I'll often filter to the front. It allows me to pull away easily - and at one set of lights I have to use (where the road splits after and people are always in the wrong approach lane) it gives me the chance to get away before everyone else starts trying to barge into the lane they should have already been in... if they were paying attention. But I don't ride around squeezing past lines of traffic on the move. But if there is a traffic jam, then sure, I'll filter. Why sit in a line of traffic maybe 10 miles (15kms?) long if you can legally ride past it?

As I said before, over here in the UK people are much, much better about it than they used to be - a lot of people will actually move over to give you space to ride these days. Of course you still have to look out for people changing lanes, opening doors etc - but that is plain common sense. People don't look/think - fact of life. Part of your responsibility to yourself is to anticipate these actions.

"Because they can" was a reference to the legality of things, not taking the law into your own hands. BIG difference.

But if you think the 'psychos' (your word) on the road won't do things like "tailgating,pulling into our lanes,opening doors,they pull out in front of us (something they wouldn't do if it was a truck coming- but its only a bike), they try & intimidate us with their big four wheel drive vehicles,yell out abuse from their windows and are just general nuisences to other motorcyclists" just because you sat way back in a queue... you're sadly very much mistaken.

[Edbear]

I don't usually lane split in moving traffic for fear of being squished but do filter to the front of a queue at lights if it's easily achieved. HAve seen bikers lane splitting at speed and just think they must have a death wish or think they're too clever. I always keep an eye on the mirrors when in my truck and try to give bikers room to split when the traffic's bad, though. Too many drivers have no idea how close they come to being run over, pulling out in front of trucks! We're going just as fast as cars but cannot stop as quick, or swerve as well! Riding my bike, especially on the open road and motorways, I've been pleasantly surprised how courteous many drivers are, pulling to the left to let me past! I always ride with my headlight on so they notice me sooner, but I've never had anyone be aggro with me. Am I just lucky so far?

[KATWYN]

End of the day, it is freedom of choice. If you want to sit 200 vehicles back in the queue, then do so.

That is the beauty of living in this country. That doesnt happen where I live. Lane splitting is also an ambiguous law in this country - it depends on the traffic officer that pulls you over whether you get a ticket or not. Another reason to not do it if you want to keep your money instead of paying it out in fines

But if you think the 'psychos' (your word) on the road won't do things like "tailgating,pulling into our lanes,opening doors,they pull out in front of us (something they wouldn't do if it was a truck coming- but its only a bike), they try & intimidate us with their big four wheel drive vehicles,yell out abuse from their windows and are just general nuisences to other motorcyclists" just because you sat way back in a queue... you're sadly very much mistaken.

Yes don't I know it. I have seen the blazing eyes of a psycho (not the correct terminology I know- but one we all understand) drive his car into a group of motorcyclists threatening to take the lot of us out, it was also pouring with rain and the road was greasy - it was really frightening. The guy was sooo angry for some unknown reason. He did it "because he could"
.................................................. .................................................. ....

[*sic]

haha his apology was tail between the legs action!

[Bob]

Katwyn,

I'll reiterate an earlier statement:

"Because they can" was a reference to the legality of things, not taking the law into your own hands. BIG difference.

The psycho (right word, reading what you said) ploughing into people "because he can" is not the same as me (or you, or anyone) filtering to the front of a queue...AS LONG AS THE LAW ALLOWS YOU.

In the UK, we are allowed LEGALLY to filter. Neither here (nor there I'm guessing!) is anyone allowed legally to plough into other vehicles to teach them some kind of lesson.

Massive difference.

I think we both agree that, even if it is legal/permitted/"look the other way when they're doing it", it is up to you whether you choose to filter or not. As I've said, I will do so (and I am allowed to in law over here), but only if I have to... or the traffic has pulled up at the lights. And not always then.

If that enrages someone, there is a good chance I'll enrage them simply by being on a bike I reckon.

[KATWYN]

If that enrages someone, there is a good chance I'll enrage them simply by being on a bike I reckon.

Absolutely.

Like that guy that drove into our group - something sparked him to do what he did at this point for no known reason. When he started tailgating agressively, I think he was given the fingers by another motorcyclist or their pillion? -which no doubt enraged him more to drive right into the middle of us all! That was not a good move - to retaliate on a bike versus car. As a group we discussed the incident afterwards.

He may have had a previous encounter with another motorcyclist/s which enraged him to
take it out on a group of innocents but when a simple sign like the fingers was given ....that was it. It put a lot of lives in danger - and who knows because of that, that horrible man may still be tormenting motorcyclists

[Grumpy]

A couple of years ago I was sitting in a queue at the lights in my car when some dick failed to see the rather large line of cars in front of him and used me as his brakes. Couldn't help but think what would of happened if I had been sitting there on my bike. That's one of the reasons why you'll find me at the front of the queue.

[geoffm]

Funny I get the same thing,several of the buggers each day.
I'm thinking they reckon their fast enough to get away with it.
I'm not looking foward to the day I'm not on the ball an run one of the clowns over.
They wouldn't be so keen if they knew it was me constantly looking out for them an just how crap my brakes really are.
Who would be a bloody train driver huh???

Help me here - you are driving a train, weighing umpteen zillion tons, and you have right of way on the tracks (natch). Wally pulls out on you and you can't stop. What is the problem here? THey won't do it again, and the chances are their next of kin have learnt a lesson too. What is the downside I am missing, except a mountain of paperwork
Geoff

[SPman]

Help me here - you are driving a train, weighing umpteen zillion tons, and you have right of way on the tracks (natch). Wally pulls out on you and you can't stop. What is the problem here? THey won't do it again, and the chances are their next of kin have learnt a lesson too. What is the downside I am missing, except a mountain of paperwork
Geoff Trouble is - they blame the train driver ???, theres another enquiry??? more restrictions are put on "dangerous" railways!!!!!! A cousin was a train driver - one day at a barrier crossing - a Valiant with the barrier sitting across the bonnet by the windscreen with the 2 occupants chatting merrily away........until he cut the nose off their car! They had the gall to blame him!!!!!

[mstriumph]

Help me here - you are driving a train, weighing umpteen zillion tons, and you have right of way on the tracks (natch). Wally pulls out on you and you can't stop. What is the problem here? THey won't do it again, and the chances are their next of kin have learnt a lesson too. What is the downside I am missing, except a mountain of paperwork
Geoff

Downside is the resultant trauma to the poor emergency response peoples who have to extricate watever is left of the idiot from the wreckage, poor police who have to advise the idiot's family and poor railway mechanical fitters who have to hose gory remnants of idiot off the loco when it gets back to the depot ........ just too much angst all the way round.

thinks - isn't there SOME way we can identify these idiots at birth and mercifully smother them in their cradles?

[Bob]

Absolutely.

Like that guy that drove into our group - something sparked him to do what he did at this point for no known reason. When he started tailgating agressively, I think he was given the fingers by another motorcyclist or their pillion? -which no doubt enraged him more to drive right into the middle of us all! That was not a good move - to retaliate on a bike versus car. As a group we discussed the incident afterwards.

He may have had a previous encounter with another motorcyclist/s which enraged him to
take it out on a group of innocents but when a simple sign like the fingers was given ....that was it. It put a lot of lives in danger - and who knows because of that, that horrible man may still be tormenting motorcyclists

I think the nail just got hit very hard on the head! OK, no idea what set him off, but flipping the finger - especially when riding in a group (where you have to have other people's safety in mind as well as your own) wasn't exactly a good idea. And if it was the pillion, then their rider needs to give them a good talking to!

As you say, no idea why he was in a bad mood to begin with, but flipping the finger wasn't going to help!

Riding VERY congested roads (the population of London is something like 2.5 times the total population in NZ!), I have the tailgating problem quite often. My solution? Create space if I can (and if I'm riding safely, then I've built a safety margin between me and the vehicle in front). From there, either look back at the tailgater - I find as sharp look back (no fingers!) often works as a "why are you so close" call - or... if you feel up to it, use your engine braking to slow down. They now think your brake light doesn't work and keep back!

I once had a situation in heavy traffic like this... so I engine braked... he kept back... sadly, the traffic started slowing, so I engine braked all the way to a stop! Then, once we'd all stopped, I filtered off down the road and away from him... to the front of the queue at the next set of lights!

See, filtering can be useful!

[KATWYN]

From there, either look back at the tailgater - I find as sharp look back (no fingers!) often works as a "why are you so close" call -

This approach got taught at a ride safe course I did. John the instructer, explained that New Zealanders don't like to know they are "being watched", so the "I know what you are doing" look approach will most likely modify the tailgaters behaviour and they will stay back. I have tried it too and it does work.

Yes, I do see the advantage now of filtering,that it isn't just "que jumping" and that it does serve a purpose.