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View Full Version : Timing Retard Eliminator for the GSXR



2much
15th February 2006, 19:41
Well I've been busy this afternoon building and installing a TRE in the K3.

Found a thread on here with a link to here (http://81x.com/bugman/gixxermods), just tried to find it again but I can't and I can't remember who posted it so sorry bout that.

Anyway, took the bike for a test ride and although it doesn't make the difference that this guy claims, there was a noticable improvement (now it's even harder to keep the front wheel on the ground). His was a K1 which may make a difference tho.

Okay, admittedly I don't really need any more power, but for $10-$15 (even less for me as I already had most of the materials needed) who could resist?

I took some pics (missed the early stages as I only thought of it half way thru). Ignore the date as I haven't figured out how to get rid of it, and sorry bout the quality, don't use the camera much so think I had it on the wrong setting.

Only permanent changes to the bike are 2 cut wires and a hole drilled in the plastic under the seat to mount the switch. You'll see where I put the switch, I chose this spot as it's hidden but easily accessible while riding.

If you've got a little electronic knowledge then I recommend giving this a go, it's bloody simple. However, if you're not sure then probably best to leave it alone, it would be possible to do some expensive damage.

Personally, I wouldn't go out and buy one from the shop (I've heard prices from $80-$175). If you really want one, let me know and I'll put one on your bike for $10 and a box of piss or something. Gonna put one in Saul's K1 next so he'll let ya's know what he thinks.

BTW, if you're doing a K3/4, then it's the plug one the right when looking towards the rear of the bike, not the left as stated on the site.

Once I've done a bit more riding I'll give you another update on how it performs.

Next mission: installing the Scottoiler the missus got me for xmas....

2much
15th February 2006, 19:47
The rest of them...

saul
15th February 2006, 19:48
Cool :banana: :lol: :blip:

Looks tidy mate but yep the photos are crap:slap:

2much
15th February 2006, 19:56
Well this is what the bike has managed to do to the rear tyre after only 3-4000km's(too many wheelstands me thinks;) )...... think it's gonna eat them even quicker now........

aff-man
15th February 2006, 20:05
Ok what bikes can you put then on and how much of a difference doesw it really make... I'm an electronics enginnering student so can do all the work etc myself.

2much
15th February 2006, 20:49
Have a look at the site.

All GSXR1000's. I'm not sure what year they started retarding the timing on 750's and 600's, possibly the injected ones? Have a look for the wires going to the CPU.

Sensei
15th February 2006, 22:24
Hummm where have you hooked your TRE into . ?? Mine is a Genuine Ivans Unit & goes into the plug from the motor to the Gearbox as this is where the bike tells the ECU what gear it's in & where the Unit tricks the bike by telling it its in 5th so full HP mapping in 1st & 2nd plus takes out the Speed limiter . Cann't tell from the pics ?

http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/tre.htm

Kornholio
15th February 2006, 22:47
OK what does this switch do and when can you put one in my bike dude? :D

boomer
15th February 2006, 23:06
OK what does this switch do and when can you put one in my bike dude? :D

Guys.. trade in and get a honda.. no drillin holes. no funky little switches, smooth lines and styling and more HP.

You know it makes sense!

'Sif u need a go faster button Rick :eek:

Kornholio
15th February 2006, 23:15
'Sif u need a go faster button Rick :eek:

Yeah dude so when I give you the learn you bloody well dont forget :D

boomer
15th February 2006, 23:21
Yeah dude so when I give you the learn you bloody well dont forget :D

I can just see you in teh tractor frantically flickin the switch to get the extra lbs of boost... ahhahahah :kick:

2much
15th February 2006, 23:22
Hummm where have you hooked your TRE into . ?? Mine is a Genuine Ivans Unit & goes into the plug from the motor to the Gearbox as this is where the bike tells the ECU what gear it's in & where the Unit tricks the bike by telling it its in 5th so full HP mapping in 1st & 2nd plus takes out the Speed limiter . Cann't tell from the pics ?

http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/tre.htm

Yeah sorry, you can't really see it cause the pics are shit. There's 2 wires that run from the ECU to the Gear position sensor, I've tapped into them under the seat where they plug into the ECU.

This one does exactly the same thing, tricks the cpu into thinking it's in 5th all the time.


OK what does this switch do and when can you put one in my bike dude? :D

Suzuki have fool proofed the GSXR's by retarding the timing in 1st, 2nd & 3rd to make it harder to loop. Fortunately, for fools like us there's a way around it, to trick the cpu into thinking it's in a higher gear and therefore it'll provide full power in these lower gears.

So basically you'll notice more mid-range in these gears, a smoother delivery and a bit less engine braking (will confirm these once I've had a bit more time in the saddle).

So do you want one? If so, I'll make yours at the same time as Saul's, then we can arrange some time to install it.

boomer
15th February 2006, 23:25
QUOTE=Sensei]Ho do you want one? If so, I'll make yours at the same time as Saul's, then we can arrange some time to install it.

No rush mate, hes got 6months to fit it :Pokey:

(couldn't resist sorry Rick :p)

Ps, 2Much.. why the **** do u need more power? has someone bypassed your circuits too?? such short mammories some of us have :nya:

2much
15th February 2006, 23:26
Guys.. trade in and get a honda..

more HP.



BAWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

YEAH FUCKEN RIGHT!!!!!!!!

Get off the drugs Boomer, they're making you hallucinate.

Kornholio
15th February 2006, 23:30
No rush mate, hes got 6months to fit it

(couldn't resist sorry Rick )

Lol its the 'Windmill' for you at Paeroa bro :P

2much
15th February 2006, 23:30
No rush mate, hes got 6months to fit it :Pokey:

(couldn't resist sorry Rick :p)

Ps, 2Much.. why the **** do u need more power? has someone bypassed your circuits too?? such short mammories some of us have :nya:


I don't need more power, already got plenty really....... but hey, is there any such thing as too much power???

And it would be nice to do power wheelies in 3rd at 180k's rather than having to clutch it up..... does your Honda do that?:finger:

boomer
15th February 2006, 23:35
does your Honda do that?:finger:

No, but then again she don't go down the road on her side that often either :Pokey: i'm only jealous bro; one day when i grow some balls i'll get litre


Heheh and Rick, Don't make me put my key to good effect.. they're fukin expensive to replace being chipped and all.

Sensei
15th February 2006, 23:38
Does your unit take the Speed limiter out 2Much ? shit mine does power stand in all the gears ?:Pokey:

Kornholio
15th February 2006, 23:46
Heheh and Rick, Don't make me put my key to good effect.. they're fukin expensive to replace being chipped and all.

The only way for you to put that key to any use is to lock your bike and go in a cage :P

2much
15th February 2006, 23:47
Does your unit take the Speed limiter out 2Much ? shit mine does power stand in all the gears ?:Pokey:

Yep, because it fools the cpu into thinking it's in 5th and the limiter is designed to work in 6th gear. Only relevent for the Thou as the 750 and 600 aren't limited. The TRE is also switched so that you can turn it on or off.

2much
15th February 2006, 23:49
The only way for you to put that key to any use is to lock your bike and go in a cage :P

Or give it to the Suzuki Dealer when you trade it in on a GSXR:Pokey:

onearmedbandit
16th February 2006, 00:35
Did the TRE mod on my bike the other night (thanks WINJA) and noticed straight away a lot more respomse (read power) in first, wheelies are just toooo easy now, improved mid-range in 2nd & 3rd (not a bike jump tho) and slightly less engine braking. Well worth it.

Pixie
16th February 2006, 09:09
Suzuki have fool proofed the GSXR's by retarding the timing in 1st, 2nd & 3rd to make it harder to loop. .
The reason the timing is retarded (and it's only in 2nd and 3rd) is to quieten the bike for noise emission test.These are done in these gears.
All you need to do is disconnect the 2nd and 3rd gear position wires from the gear position sensor switch on the gearbox.Leaving the neutral and top gear (if there is one ) wires connected.
That is all the $100 plus eliminators do.

Fishy
16th February 2006, 09:58
Can you do this to other makes of bikes? Honda maybe? CBR1000RR maybe? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

onearmedbandit
16th February 2006, 10:10
The reason the timing is retarded (and it's only in 2nd and 3rd) is to quieten the bike for noise emission test.These are done in these gears.
All you need to do is disconnect the 2nd and 3rd gear position wires from the gear position sensor switch on the gearbox.Leaving the neutral and top gear (if there is one ) wires connected.
That is all the $100 plus eliminators do.


OK, that's completely different from anything I've heard or read before. Where did you get your info Pixie?

2much
16th February 2006, 12:32
The reason the timing is retarded (and it's only in 2nd and 3rd) is to quieten the bike for noise emission test.These are done in these gears.
All you need to do is disconnect the 2nd and 3rd gear position wires from the gear position sensor switch on the gearbox.Leaving the neutral and top gear (if there is one ) wires connected.
That is all the $100 plus eliminators do.

Noise emission? Hmmmm, I don't think so. Or do you mean Exhaust emissions? As I believe this is another reason they do it.

And no, that's not quite correct. The GPS changes the resistance that the CPU sees according to whatever gear you are in. A TRE continuously shows the cpu the resistance for 5th gear (therefore eliminating the speed limiter in 6th as well).

By simply disconnecting the wires the cpu will see an open circiut and think it's in neutral. I'm not sure if this has any adverse effects but I'd rather stick with the tried and proven TRE.

As for it being only 2nd & 3rd, I've heard differing opinions )some believe it's 1st thru 4th), but the majority seem to agree that it's 1st, 2nd & 3rd.

Have you actually done this mod yourself???

2much
16th February 2006, 12:47
Can you do this to other makes of bikes? Honda maybe? CBR1000RR maybe? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Nah mate, from what I can find they are only needed on fuel injected GSXR's and ZX10R's.

Guess the honda's don't make enough power to need the timing retarded:Pokey:

Patch
16th February 2006, 18:36
I personally wouldn't and did not bother with Ivan's TRE - too expensive for what it is.

Check out www.jsdproducts.com/Product_Info/product_info.html for all the information especially you Pixie

The best and cheapest mod I ever did.

98tls
17th February 2006, 08:11
i bought a jsd3a TRE for my TLS,the a is for automatic so no switch needed.suzuki retards the ignition in gears 1-4,the noise and emmisson theroy i have never heard before.as far as power gains i sort of stuffed up as i bought a yoshimura fuel injection adjuster from the states and the same day i installed TRE i zapped the ecu with that so as impressive as the results were i cant be sure if it was the TRE or adjusting the ecu.the TRE on a TLS anyway tells the ecu that the bike is in 6th gear,as a side note the single best bang for buck mod would have to be a 1/5th throttle insert at us $20.as far as cutting wires i think its better to buy a model specific one as its simply plug in and go,not expensive at $45 us.

DEATH_INC.
18th February 2006, 04:36
This mod works on all injected zookies, personally done my gixx750, a TLr and a TLs, all worked great with noticeable improvements.Do it to yer Busa to get rid of that annoying 300k limiter.
I dunno 'bout the later thous, but the earlier one's (at least 750's and tl's) have 3 wires in the loom,the two for the gears and a seperate earth switch wire for neutral.....
It's the easiest mod ever, forget the switch (you'll never turn it off) find the wires from the box (black/white, blue and pink ) cut the black/white and pink( the blue is the neutral wire) and put a 6.8k (I think,can't quite remember....I do know on anything without a speed limiter a 15k makes it think it's in 6th and works just fine) resistor between them on the ecu side of your cuts and yer done.Leave the gearbox side disconnected and maybe put some tape on the bare bits of wire.....easy.
If you got a thou you may wanna check if they changed the colours.

cowpoos
18th February 2006, 08:20
Can you do this to other makes of bikes? Honda maybe? CBR1000RR maybe? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...... nah......its retarded from the factory and nothing can change that.....BWWWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!


:moon:

Fishy
18th February 2006, 12:54
Tell me something we all don't already know Poo's!. You know that I know that I own a fucken guttless piece of shit thats why I was asking if it could be done to liven it up a bit.

98tls
18th February 2006, 17:21
no idea about the honda,i had a look at where i bought mine but just suzukis.if in fact honda do retard the ignition in gears 1-4 from the factory like suzuki do then no doubt there is one available.or do it yourself.

HDTboy
21st March 2007, 13:54
I'm off to Dick Smiths!

HDTboy
17th April 2007, 18:29
Well, I made a TRE, and fitted it. To be honest I didn't notice much difference, and the bike is becoming a pig to start in the mornings now that it's getting colder.

I'm not sure how much of that is due to the power commander, and how much is due to the TRE, but I'll be modifying the one I made, to this (http://wotid.com/gsxr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=31) design, which automatically switches off when in neutral.

I'll also be getting the power commander tuned asap