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View Full Version : Europe: Future of biking under threat as new licence proposals one step closer to law



Bob
29th March 2006, 00:33
Motorcycling is under threat as never before, as the punitive licencing laws proposed under the ‘Third Directive on Driving Licences’ were agreed in the European parliament.

Citing “Statistics showing an increase in the number of motorcyclists involved in accidents”, the proposal called for “A more sophisticated progressive access model that will take into account age, experience, training and testing. The new Directive tries to strike a balance between different factors”.

These factors are:

• When progressing from one to category to another, meaning from a less powerful motorcycle to a more powerful one, only once a theory test is imposed; furthermore, only one practical test is mandatory; however, Member States are free to check the experience gathered either through a test or through training: this should alleviate the burden for those changing category;
• The vehicle definition of the medium-powered category A2 has been widened and thus a wider range of bikes are available for these riders; the category thus becomes a real main category in opposition of category A limited today;
• Direct access to the most powerful bikes has been fixed at the age of 24
• Member States are free to allow direct access, but can also make progressive access obligatory

What this means in reality is:

• Minimum age for riding bikes larger than 125cc rises from 17 to 19
• Direct Access to larger bikes not allowed until 24 (currently 21)
• The new categories of motorcycle riding licences creates several two-year ‘steps’ between bikes of different engine size
• More expense as riders required to complete extra tests between ‘steps’.

The Government objected to the legislation after the motorcycle industry said that it would have a devastating impact, but all other member states voted in favour. The Department for Transport believes experience, not age, is most important for safety. After being out-voted in Brussels, Stephen Ladyman, the Transport Minister, said that the new motorcycle rules were “unnecessary, overly rigid and won’t add anything to road safety, which is why we objected.”

“These changes won’t give us any benefits over existing arrangements,” he said. “People will find their access to motorbikes will be much more restricted and the motorbike industry will suffer. It’s negative, but we have no choice but to make the best of it.”

Trevor Magner, of the British Motorcyclists’ Federation, said the new rules would “have an extreme and devastating effect on the take-up of motorbiking. The more bureaucracy and restrictions there are, the fewer people will take it up.

“It will do nothing for motorcycling safety — there will be fewer motorcycling deaths simply because no one will be riding them.”

The only plus is that licences from member states will be recognised across the EU – a small comfort when no-one will be left riding bikes.

The changes - subject to final approval - are due to be phased in from 2012.


If these changes come in, then biking is DEAD. Why spend a fortune, take four tests all to be allowed to ride a big bike by the age of 24, when you take one car test at 16... and that is it.

To all KBers in UK/Europe - I call on you to contact your local MPs and MEPS. Any of you in NZ or elsewhere with friends in UK/Europe, please do the same.

Just think about this. If biking in Europe crashes and dies, then it'll force prices up elsewhere as the manufacturers have to try to save their income. And how often does NZ etc look at "safety" legislation from UK etc... and bring it in themselves.

This is the future of biking we are defending here, make no mistake.

Motu
29th March 2006, 07:37
Good news - I'm sure the anal safety Nazi's on this site will be right behind this happening here.

limbimtimwim
29th March 2006, 09:41
Does this mean the return of serious 250 and 400cc bikes!?!?

BRING IT ON!!!

But otherwise, this proposal is a little harsh. Personal responsibility is what counts. Any bike, of basically any size is dangerous if not used responsibly.

I don't think changing the size of bikes people can obtain won't change the stats much.

MisterD
30th March 2006, 12:40
If these changes come in, then biking is DEAD. Why spend a fortune, take four tests all to be allowed to ride a big bike by the age of 24, when you take one car test at 16... and that is it.


Do you really think so Bob? I'm not old enough to remember, but I wouldn't be surprised if the same sentiments were expressed when compulsory helmet laws came in.

It's already tougher to get on a bike than drive a car, but people do it because they love it and I can't see any amount of bureaucratic stuff changing that.

That said though, I'm against nanny-stateism wherever it may be, so even as an expat I'm going to chip my tuppence in to my former MP.

Indiana_Jones
30th March 2006, 20:43
"Statistics showing an increase in the number of motorcyclists involved in accidents"

They fail to say that most of them are caused by the cage driver :p

Yeah it'll die, they let it happen to the gun laws in the UK, it's a joke. Fucking PC hippies, hug a tree

-Indy

ajturbo
30th March 2006, 21:22
Statistics showing an increase in the number of motorcyclists involved in accidents"

They fail to say that most of them are caused by the cage driver :p

Yeah it'll die, they let it happen to the gun laws in the UK, it's a joke. Fucking PC hippies, hug a tree

-Indy


fuck the tree huggers:bash:

who the fuck comes up with shit like this??? when will it end?
next you will be telling me that sky wont work.

no serously i think it is crazy.... why don't they make the noobs, take MORE one on one training?

looking back it is a wonder i am still around... no training what so ever but still managed to get that first bike off a bike salesman, he delivered it to my house ( as i could even start the thing!!!) then off i went............:scooter:

Bob
30th March 2006, 22:27
Do you really think so Bob? I'm not old enough to remember, but I wouldn't be surprised if the same sentiments were expressed when compulsory helmet laws came in.

It's already tougher to get on a bike than drive a car, but people do it because they love it and I can't see any amount of bureaucratic stuff changing that.

That said though, I'm against nanny-stateism wherever it may be, so even as an expat I'm going to chip my tuppence in to my former MP.

Do I think so? YES, in a nutshell. Forced to wear a helmet is very different to:

16 - do theory test
16 - do CBT (basic training to be allowed on road)
16 - do practical test
Now allowed to ride a machine of up to 50cc (I think)

19 - do another practical test
Now allowed to ride a machine of up to 125cc

21 - do another practical test
Now allowed to ride a machine of up to about 250cc

23 - do another practical test
Now finally allowed to ride any bike

So if you want to start at 16, it is going to take 7 years and 4 tests (5 if you include the CBT - not mentioning the theory test) before you are allowed to graduate to large capacity bikes.

And each of those tests needs to be paid for - so the expense has already quadrupled. And that is before considering that with 4 times more tests, there is a need for more testers. Which is more expense. Which needs to be recovered through test fees.

As things stand in the UK, you do CBT at 17 and are allowed to ride a 125. Then do theory test and a practical test. You've then got 2 years on a restricted licence (so up to about 250cc in practical terms) before experience moves you up to an unrestricted licence. So start at 17, do your time and you'll be ready with two years experience at riding before you move up. With only CBT, theory and practical to do.

Unless you are 21 or older (going up to 24 under new proposals) when you can take Direct Access and bypass the restricted period. This means taking a test on a bike of 47bhp - something like an ER-5 or GS500.

The above is restrictive - but it does mean that you can progress through on the basis of "learning the craft". Add in four times (at least) the expense and at least five years before you can get on with life? Compare that to buying some ratty little hatchback at 16 and that is it for the rest of your life?

OK, someone who REALLY wants to ride will carry on - but it will lose a huge number of people that just buy a bike for cheap transport. Which is a lot of people. So sales plummet. Dealers close. Prices go up as fewer dealers charge more and also try to cover their margins.

Very nasty downward spiral.

steved
31st March 2006, 10:47
Whilst I believe in a graduated license system, I agree that the steps proposed there are fairly draconian. Three years on 50cc, two years on a 125, two years on a 250. Seems pretty long.

Fishy
31st March 2006, 11:09
And yet they will still allow a 16 year old on a learners drive around in a turbo Mitsi evo, Suby WRX, Nissan Silvia etc etc etc.....

Fucken sick of this lets restrict this on bikes and lets restrict that on bikes... fucken load of shit!.

bugjuice
31st March 2006, 12:16
2012? things will be a little different by then..

what country is this for anyway, or is it all of Europe? Cage driving used to be 17 in the UK.. has that changed?

I can see where the govt is coming from, and to some degree, I kind of agree. But I think the expense bit is stupid. Biking is already costing a newb enough to get kitted up as it is, and that's often 'budget' gear to get started with too. Then the price of petrol, imports etc etc, all drives costs up too.

As for saying biking will be dead, I think that's a touch hormonal, don't you think? Sure, it may put off a few, but people with a passion for something truly great, an extra test isn't going to stop them. Wouldn't stop me. Just be a pain in the butt, but I'd still be riding. Larger bikes would then come with the experience on the roads, which makes sense.

JT.
31st March 2006, 16:57
And yet they will still allow a 16 year old on a learners drive around in a turbo Mitsi evo, Suby WRX, Nissan Silvia etc etc etc.....

Fucken sick of this lets restrict this on bikes and lets restrict that on bikes... fucken load of shit!.

Insurance is a killer, cars are more expensive and they have less to choose from in the UK so there aint the same ratio of young idiots in fast cars as we have here.

Bob
31st March 2006, 21:13
2012? things will be a little different by then..

what country is this for anyway, or is it all of Europe? Cage driving used to be 17 in the UK.. has that changed?

I can see where the govt is coming from, and to some degree, I kind of agree. But I think the expense bit is stupid. Biking is already costing a newb enough to get kitted up as it is, and that's often 'budget' gear to get started with too. Then the price of petrol, imports etc etc, all drives costs up too.

As for saying biking will be dead, I think that's a touch hormonal, don't you think? Sure, it may put off a few, but people with a passion for something truly great, an extra test isn't going to stop them. Wouldn't stop me. Just be a pain in the butt, but I'd still be riding. Larger bikes would then come with the experience on the roads, which makes sense.

This is the whole of Europe. The European Parliament are bringing in licencing standards that will apply across all member states. But the UK is where the biggest impact will be - bulk of bikes here are 600cc and above.

As for cage driving - probably is still 17. I don't drive a car (and have no interest in them), so I'm not up on car regs.

It isn't just me that is pessimistic about the future - the major bike lobbying groups are up in arms in a way I have not seen before, supported by the Motorcycle Industry Association. What follows is a press release I just got from the Motorcycle Action Group - along with the BMF, they are our biggest biking group:

"The Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) has condemned the latest EU decision on motorcycle licensing which has shown the bureaucrats in their true colours.

MAG says, "This is total war!"

The EU has rammed through the Directive in a way that shows contempt for motorcyclist's views.

They want bikes off the road.

The safety bureaucrats have become target obsessed, setting accident reduction targets using statistics that are baloney.

They have totally lost a sense of balance between riders’ reasonable expectations for mobility and the prevention of accidents.

To real enthusiasts who would clear any hurdle to get a licence it might seem inconceivable that legislation would really stop anyone getting on two wheels but past experience proves otherwise.

The trouble is that the safety bureaucrats know that not all riders are enthusiasts, they know that many people will be put off by a draconian training regime, so that is what they have concocted. This isn't rocket science but it is effective. The 1981 Transport Act in the UK (when the learner limit was reduced from 250cc to 125cc) sent bike sales into freefall and these people know that and want to produce the same effect across Europe.

Many riders who already have licenses might question why they should care. MAG cares because MAG always takes the long view. MAG defends motorcycling and recognises that the licence directive is just one weapon in the safety bureaucrat's armoury that is designed to stop young people taking up motorcycling. There is no limit to the zealots’ appetite for accident reduction, they are pursuing a 50% reduction in road accident fatalities by 2010 and they see motorcyclists as an obstacle to achieving that.

European Commission Vice President Jacques Barrot recently stated, “We have 6% more deaths since the year 2000 caused by motorbikes. We have to take very targeted action there.”

His biased statement conflicts with research which indicates that the primary blame for accidents with motorcycles and other vehicles lies with the other vehicle driver at least 40% of the time. Given that it is MAG's opinion that the emphasis should be on other vehicle drivers yet the directive does not address car drivers via the licensing "regime" for these vehicles.

MAG suspects that the extremists in the road safety lobby cannot be appeased on the basis of accident reduction alone, they have to be philosophically and politically defeated. We have to be more determined to preserve biking than they are to destroy it.

MAG defends the right to ride motorcycles and we will protect for that right forever.

We are now engaged in a game of survival of the most determined and the European Commission is going to learn how determined MAG is."

When you look at lines like "We are now engaged in a game of survival", you get to see just how much of a threat these laws are considered.