Best 2 stroke oil?

[nezorf]

i have seen this but can fine it try search best oil lol.

what is the best to stroke oil you can get and were to get it from? i dont care a bout price

[Mr. Peanut]

For bikes with injectors,

Motul 600

For premix

Motul 800

Very clean burn, very high quality.
Im sure there are a few others, but I havent tried them myself.

:rockon:

[Motu]

Silkolene,ester based synthetic - the best you can get.Actualy any synth is pretty good.The ultimate is the castor/synth mix - modern castor oils don't gum.Smell great too....some of the synth oils really stink.

[laRIKin]

I to like Motul 800 (premix), but have been told that it could be hygroscopic.
As some bike's seem to end up stuffing their big-ends or their main bearings. So I have read.
I think that you must to keep the mix fresh and run your motor after washing to make sure that every thing is dry in the motor.
That is to make sure the big-end and main bearings are free of all moisture.

I know when I use to road race the guy's that had two strokes would only mix fuel that intended to use and if it was not used they would dump it.
This could of been a hang up from Castrol R, I'm not sure.

I like it and have used it for years, but did have one motor blow it's main bearings.
It could have been due for a rebuild as I had craned that bike for a year or two.

[Skunk]

I use Silkolene in my bucket (premix). Seems to work.

[Squiggles]

i use repsol comp in my rgv... never had probs with it

[TygerTung]

I use Castrol TTS fully synthetic, seems pretty good, it's quite cheap too, only $80 for 4 litres from supercheap.

Doesn't smoke though :no: which sort of defeats the purpose of having a 2 stroke?!:scooter:

[jade]

use fully synthetic, i reccomend castrol TTS - at your local supercheapauto 25 bucks a litre - also at cycletreads -
best smell - highest protection at HI rpm

If you have an oil injection system Put a litre in and dont worry about it till a month later when your oil light comes on, when that comes on put another 500ml in and repeat filling it up in 500ml increments a couple of times then just top up every few days in small amounts depending on use
The reason for running the oil out till the light comes on is if there is oil already in the tank, it can react with the new oil and form a gluey like substance.. not what you want to pump into your engine if it makes it that far.

If you want to run on the premix system you want to mix the oil with the fuel at about 40 to 1, thats about 500ml to a tank. mix the fuel and oil in a bucket and stir.

Another good one is elf fully synthetic 2 stroke
I am not one to bag on others opinions but I dont paticulary like motul
I know they make alot of oils, 2 stroke 4 stroke fork oils transmission - the list is endless
I think they make better 2 stroke oil for dirt bikes, I dont find them paticulary good for 2 stroke roadbikes.

[Kickaha]

I've always used either Castrol TTS or A747, A747 is a castor based oil and I ran this in my TZ250 it is not suitable for injector systems or older lower revving two strokes and I think it has now been superseded by something else

What is your application?

[Ghost Lemur]

My CRM has lived on Castrol TTS, so I'll continue to use it.

[Otis243]

I have been using Putoline TT Extra or Putoline MX7 (both fully synthetic) at a 50:1 mix for years. Having just taken the barrel & head off for the first time in over 3 years of hard and regular riding, I was seriously impressed at the condition of all parts. The barrel & head were spotless, there was minimal carbon showing on the piston crown and no carbon build up in the exhaust port or on the power valve... don't compromise with the quality of your 2 smoke oil !

[mzer]

i have seen this but can fine it try search best oil lol.

what is the best to stroke oil you can get and were to get it from? i dont care a bout price

Always follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

The main thing is viscosity. Injection pumps typically call for SAE 20 or SAE 30, for premix up to SAE 50 is used; the higher the viscosity the better the load carrying, but higher viscosity oils also increase drag.

Synthetics give advantages, lower smoke, reduced friction, better high temperature stability etc - but as discussed esters are hydroscopic and can cause problems if you store your bike for a long time.

Castor based products are slippery and smell nice, but tend to be pretty dirty. Also their shelf life may be reduced.

[Madmax]

Castrol MSSR, hard to find but good stuff
:devil2:

[CookMySock]

Amsoil 100:1. If you can find it. If you can afford it. If you dare.

Steve

[malcy25]

I to like Motul 800 (premix), but have been told that it could be hygroscopic.
As some bike's seem to end up stuffing their big-ends or their main bearings. So I have read.
I think that you must to keep the mix fresh and run your motor after washing to make sure that every thing is dry in the motor.
That is to make sure the big-end and main bearings are free of all moisture.

I know when I use to road race the guy's that had two strokes would only mix fuel that intended to use and if it was not used they would dump it.
This could of been a hang up from Castrol R, I'm not sure.

I like it and have used it for years, but did have one motor blow it's main bearings.
It could have been due for a rebuild as I had craned that bike for a year or two.

Have used Motul exclusively for 22 years (that's how long it has been imported!) in my two strokes (and there have been many TZ's, RS's, YZ's, TZR's, RZ's, TR's etc through the family).

Injection - 600 2T which can also be pre mixed from memory
Pre Mix 800 2T. 30:1 in water cooled bikes, 25:1 in air cooled bikes.

I have never had a lubrication issue or a failure in any bike that was caused by the oil

Good oil is cheap insurance.

If I couldn't get Motul, I'd be looking at Silkolene or castrol A747.

I doubt one 2 stroke oil absorbs water more than another, though some oils do react differently with water in terms of slide sticking.

I think if you are getting water into your engine when washing, that is your main problem - seal it better before getting the hose out, not that the oil is sucking it.

The old castor based oils like Shell M and Castrol R are still to this day some of the most lubricative oils available, but the let down is the mixability and shelf life (ie use same day).

Very low ratio of oil to fuel is also a gimic, give the engine as much as it can handle and jet accordingly - more oil will displace the quantity of fuel in the overall mix and make it run leaner....

There was an article years ago which tested a bike on the dyno and they got the best power at 14:1 (where most people would run 16-25:1).

I have also seen upper cylinder bore wear on a bike the same as I was running, and the only diffrence was essentially the oil. I had Motul, the other bike was TTS pre mixed. The other bike was changd to Motul and problem never reoccurred.

[CookMySock]

Very low ratio of oil to fuel is also a gimic, give the engine as much as it can handle and jet accordingly - more oil will displace the quantity of fuel in the overall mix and make it run leaner....

There was an article years ago which tested a bike on the dyno and they got the best power at 14:1 (where most people would run 16-25:1).It is tempting to draw the conclusion that 14:1 fuel/oil is optimum power, but there are other reasons for that. What they are doing there, is actually fiddling the fuel/air ratio by adjusting the fuel/oil mix, as you observe.

The real reasons for lean fuel/oil mixes, is the engine is less fiddly to start, the rings stay cleaner and less likely to pinch a ring. Dirty rings and skirts can lead to piston seizure on 2T engines that are run full-power for some time, ie microlights, where lean fuel/oil mix is mandatory.

The main problem with lean fuel/oil ratios, are peoples' heads, not lack of lubrication. Everyone seems to respond to 2T "lube" problems with more lube.

I don't recall seeing any 2T engines with stuffed rod or main bearings, but then I haven't seen that many, and I don't pummel them within an inch of their lives.

Steve

[laRIKin]

I have never had a lubrication issue or a failure in any bike that was caused by the oil

I doubt one 2 stroke oil absorbs water more than another, though some oils do react differently with water in terms of slide sticking.

I think if you are getting water into your engine when washing, that is your main problem - seal it better before getting the hose out, not that the oil is sucking it.

Shit you dragged up a 3 year old thread.

Got to love oil threads.:sleep:

[malcy25]

It is tempting to draw the conclusion that 14:1 fuel/oil is optimum power, but there are other reasons for that. What they are doing there, is actually fiddling the fuel/air ratio by adjusting the fuel/oil mix, as you observe.

The real reasons for lean fuel/oil mixes, is the engine is less fiddly to start, the rings stay cleaner and less likely to pinch a ring. Dirty rings and skirts can lead to piston seizure on 2T engines that are run full-power for some time, ie microlights, where lean fuel/oil mix is mandatory.

The main problem with lean fuel/oil ratios, are peoples' heads, not lack of lubrication. Everyone seems to respond to 2T "lube" problems with more lube.

I don't recall seeing any 2T engines with stuffed rod or main bearings, but then I haven't seen that many, and I don't pummel them within an inch of their lives.

Steve

I think Gordon Jennings knew what he was doing and that was a consideration, given that he was 0ne of the better 2 stroke tuners ever.

He also found less ash deposits which is contrary to what you would expect. In fact, it was found with Castor based oils in higer ratios, ie 50:1 sort of this to deposit MORE....

Larkin, nah, not me, it was there this afternoon!

[mzer]

I doubt one 2 stroke oil absorbs water more than another, though some oils do react differently with water in terms of slide sticking.

Esters are polar molecules and as such tend to be hygroscopic.

When looking at mix ratios it's also important to remember that adding oil to fuel does reduce the fuel's octane.

[McWild]

Me, I use whale oil.

That or TTS, I get confused a lot.

[7mmWSM]

use fully synthetic, i reccomend castrol TTS - at your local supercheapauto 25 bucks a litre - also at cycletreads -
best smell - highest protection at HI rpm

If you have an oil injection system Put a litre in and dont worry about it till a month later when your oil light comes on, when that comes on put another 500ml in and repeat filling it up in 500ml increments a couple of times then just top up every few days in small amounts depending on use
The reason for running the oil out till the light comes on is if there is oil already in the tank, it can react with the new oil and form a gluey like substance.. not what you want to pump into your engine if it makes it that far.

If you want to run on the premix system you want to mix the oil with the fuel at about 40 to 1, thats about 500ml to a tank. mix the fuel and oil in a bucket and stir.


.

You must have a big tank. 40:1 would be 500ml of oil per 20L of fuel.

[Sketchy_Racer]

It is tempting to draw the conclusion that 14:1 fuel/oil is optimum power, but there are other reasons for that. What they are doing there, is actually fiddling the fuel/air ratio by adjusting the fuel/oil mix, as you observe.

The real reasons for lean fuel/oil mixes, is the engine is less fiddly to start, the rings stay cleaner and less likely to pinch a ring. Dirty rings and skirts can lead to piston seizure on 2T engines that are run full-power for some time, ie microlights, where lean fuel/oil mix is mandatory.

The main problem with lean fuel/oil ratios, are peoples' heads, not lack of lubrication. Everyone seems to respond to 2T "lube" problems with more lube.

I don't recall seeing any 2T engines with stuffed rod or main bearings, but then I haven't seen that many, and I don't pummel them within an inch of their lives.

Steve

I think you'll find that the people that did the dyno testing from where that quote about the "14:1 made best power" came from knew that they would need to re-jet each time time they made a change to the oil.

Extra lube especially the 'good' synthetics don't gum up like the old castor based oils did if they were to rich.

I've not had any experience with castor oils, but I fail to see their application in todays modern oil tech.

I've never had any oil related engine issues from synthetics, the only one time I did seize a bike that I was running was when I had a horrendous amount of ignition advance (timing plate slipped) and it detonated itself to death.

I have how ever had a recent play with making a big jump from running 40:1 in my bucket racer (Air cooled Honda H100, making a touch under 20HP) to 25:1. The main thing i noticed was that the extra lube seemed to help keep the engine temp down. One of the biggest issues with air cooled 2 strokes is when they get hot, they lose power. I can't feel any drop off in performance any more, and on top of that, the motor certainly feels much stronger in the low RPM, which I would put down to better sealing if the piston rings thanks to the extra oil.

Next time I have a chance to put the bike on the dyno, I will try the different ratios back to back. It would be interesting to find out.

I would say it is more than reasonable to use any modern good quality synthetic oil, and anything under 40:1 and your safe as houses.

[Robert Taylor]

I think you'll find that the people that did the dyno testing from where that quote about the "14:1 made best power" came from knew that they would need to re-jet each time time they made a change to the oil.

Extra lube especially the 'good' synthetics don't gum up like the old castor based oils did if they were to rich.

I've not had any experience with castor oils, but I fail to see their application in todays modern oil tech.

I've never had any oil related engine issues from synthetics, the only one time I did seize a bike that I was running was when I had a horrendous amount of ignition advance (timing plate slipped) and it detonated itself to death.

I have how ever had a recent play with making a big jump from running 40:1 in my bucket racer (Air cooled Honda H100, making a touch under 20HP) to 25:1. The main thing i noticed was that the extra lube seemed to help keep the engine temp down. One of the biggest issues with air cooled 2 strokes is when they get hot, they lose power. I can't feel any drop off in performance any more, and on top of that, the motor certainly feels much stronger in the low RPM, which I would put down to better sealing if the piston rings thanks to the extra oil.

Next time I have a chance to put the bike on the dyno, I will try the different ratios back to back. It would be interesting to find out.

I would say it is more than reasonable to use any modern good quality synthetic oil, and anything under 40:1 and your safe as houses.

My experience Glen is that there are a couple of high profile synthetic 2 stroke oils on the market that result in big end bearing cage skid at elevated rpm, so care still has to be taken with selection. Although its a bit of a broad statement I would have to say that the French companies produce the best 2 stroke oil i.e Motul, Elf.
There is still a lot of marketing hype out there and there always will be. As a 2 stroke tuner for many years ( mx, road race and karts ) we didnt always run the same oil as the sponsors stickers, because we didnt want premature wear / lubrication related failures and we always ran on the ragged edge.

[Robert Taylor]

Castrol MSSR, hard to find but good stuff
:devil2:

Thoroughly disagree, rapid wear.

[CookMySock]

My experience Glen is that there are a couple of high profile synthetic 2 stroke oils on the market that result in big end bearing cage skid at elevated rpm, so care still has to be taken with selection. Which ones? How elevated? If they were mixed at higher than the recommended concentration they might do that too.

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

Which ones? How elevated? If they were mixed at higher than the recommended concentration they might do that too.

Steve

Im not entering into libel / ''name and shame'' but suffice to say at recommended ratios and sustained use at high rpm. We built a LOT of NZ championship winning MX, road race and gearbox kart engines through the late 80s and to 2000 and had a lot of experience with oils.

[ready4whatever]

bp brand .

[Ooky]

motul 710:yes::scooter:

[Madmax]

Thoroughly disagree, rapid wear.

methanol/nitro mix used for drag racing never had any problems
also used it in a road race bike same (methanol only)
I think it was made for model engines/snow bugs
the mix was the trick
:blink:

[Madmax]

Im not entering into libel / ''name and shame'' but suffice to say at recommended ratios and sustained use at high rpm. We built a LOT of NZ championship winning MX, road race and gearbox kart engines through the late 80s and to 2000 and had a lot of experience with oils.
own up then if this is so good
Belray Mabey !!!!

[Robert Taylor]

methanol/nitro mix used for drag racing never had any problems
also used it in a road race bike same (methanol only)
I think it was made for model engines/snow bugs
the mix was the trick
:blink:

Yes we used with methanol as well and wear rate was rapid compared to other more up to the minute oil.

[malcy25]

I think you'll find that the people that did the dyno testing from where that quote about the "14:1 made best power" came from knew that they would need to re-jet each time time they made a change to the oil.

Extra lube especially the 'good' synthetics don't gum up like the old castor based oils did if they were to rich.

I've not had any experience with castor oils, but I fail to see their application in todays modern oil tech.

I've never had any oil related engine issues from synthetics, the only one time I did seize a bike that I was running was when I had a horrendous amount of ignition advance (timing plate slipped) and it detonated itself to death.

I have how ever had a recent play with making a big jump from running 40:1 in my bucket racer (Air cooled Honda H100, making a touch under 20HP) to 25:1. The main thing i noticed was that the extra lube seemed to help keep the engine temp down. One of the biggest issues with air cooled 2 strokes is when they get hot, they lose power. I can't feel any drop off in performance any more, and on top of that, the motor certainly feels much stronger in the low RPM, which I would put down to better sealing if the piston rings thanks to the extra oil.

Next time I have a chance to put the bike on the dyno, I will try the different ratios back to back. It would be interesting to find out.

I would say it is more than reasonable to use any modern good quality synthetic oil, and anything under 40:1 and your safe as houses.

Sketchy. Good post - One thing though is I understand that castor based oils whilst can be messy, still match or exceed many synthetics in "shear strength". It still makes a great gearbox oil and 4 stroke engine oil in some cirumstances. Interestingly in 2 stroke application low ratios 500 -100:1 seems to cause more ash than high ie 16:1. Dunno why.

[Madmax]

Yes we used with methanol as well and wear rate was rapid compared to other more up to the minute oil.

never had a prob with it
does not like oil injectolube
i pulled the heads 1 hr
was the only oil that (liked) would have anything to do with nitro
H1r/H2r parts are hard to find

[montsta56]

has anyone had any experience using the Mobil 1 2t race oil??.
I'm currently using the Elf 976 but the Mobil 1 seem's well priced??

[FruitLooPs]

I read an interesting post on 2T oils on an NSR forum the other day. I managed to seize my NSR250 first time I took it out on the track premixing with Castrol TTS at Ruapuna end of the front straight.

Now i've run my RG150 ragged in streetstock quite a few times and never had a problem using TTS for injector. I found this interesting:


"Shutting off after WOT can be an issue on pre-mix, the engine is being starved of fresh lubricant. This is where the performance of any given pre-mix race oil is really tested. It requires the oil to maintain a full film on the piston wall, supplied from the last charge of air / fuel / oil when the throttle was last open. Imagine shutting off at 11,000 into the corner after a straight, high engine RPM and downchanging which applies load to the engine (not as high as full power load). If the oil film is not strong enough (lower viscosity), it begins to breakdown and the piston comes into full boundary contact with the cylinder, and adhesive wear conditions start. Sustaining this for a full track day can then lead to seizure.

Oil Injector systems get by with a lower viscosity oil under these conditions as they still give a small feed of oil when the throttle is fully closed, thus replenishing the oil film on the piston / bore.

The viscosity numbers are very telling:

Castrol TTS, viscosity @ 40 C = 43 centistokes (mm2/s)
Castrol XR77, viscosity @ 40 C = 112 centistokes (mm2/s)

Almost 3 times the viscosity, which is really going to help when running the engine hot and the throttle is shut-off after WOT, when on pre-mix lubrication."

and another response from same forum by a tuner TYGA

"I used to spend time in the Castrol technology centre, and watching a single cylinder, air cooled 125cc engine run flat out on the dyno, being fed A747 @ 300:1 was quite nail biting. Only lasted a few seconds, but was quite impressive.

No other oil (race or street) came close to A747 for sustained high RPM use. Next in line was TTS, which was very closely followed (and beaten in some tests) by Shell Advance SX."