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Waylander
1st November 2006, 19:28
Ok, been having trouble with the Max keeping the battery charged. Been going through the steps as per help from a few of the local members of KB, Vmax forum and my service manual but now I'm stuck again.

I've checked the Stator coild resistance and that was sweet, next step was the Regulator/Rectifier. Have it off the bike now but it's a sealed unit and from what I can understand of the manual I'm supposed to test alot of things inside of it . I've added a screen shot of the relevant page.

Thought of testing the wires comming out of it but the only time I get a reading is one pin from the mutlimeter on the metal casing and the other on the one flat pin inside the plug with the white wires.
Only other wire comming out is a red one wich I'm assuming is the power line to the battery.
Can anybody help?

Manual page is here. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45197&d=1162362077)

Waylander
1st November 2006, 20:09
Bump ump, Anyone at all? This is seriously keeping me up at night trying to fix it nd that's starting to affectme at work and I need to work my ass off every day for the next few weeks to be able to afford some things I want to do, like trackdays.

crashe
1st November 2006, 20:12
Gee I didnt think your new bike was a 1988 model.
I thought it was a much later model....

Good luck in fixing the problem.....

Waylander
1st November 2006, 20:16
Compare it to any later model Max and you won't find much diference. Except rims and rotors.

jonbuoy
1st November 2006, 20:33
To use that diagram you need to open up the rectifier and get at all the diodes and check individualy. Set your multimeter to diode mode if it has one, continuity/resistance check won't show much. Easier to check the AC output from your generator to the rectifier then see if you have a DC output from the recitifier to your battery.

Waylander
1st November 2006, 20:34
Ok, how do I get the thing open with out ruining it? Or how do I check the other things?

jonbuoy
1st November 2006, 20:44
Its probably sealed and potted with epoxy or similar - if your'e feeling brave get a sharp knife and cut around the seal if there is one. You wanna be sure its faulty before you hack it open. By the looks of it you should have a decent amount of ac volts from your generator between 1 and 3, 1 and 2, 2 and 3. - So you should record three readings across these white wires - check this first.

paturoa
1st November 2006, 20:45
use your meter on resistance / ohms

If digital then just read the values, if a needle meter then you will need to use a lowish setting.

Way over simplifyling things - the device, has diodes in it (d1 thru d6) which only flow current in one direction. So it takes the 3 inputs from the 1, 2, 3 leads from the generation source, which is putting out alternating (positve and negative) current. The regulator part limits the voltage so that it doesnt get too high.

Touch the meter probes together and you will see what a short looks like.

Simplistically again....

Put the red + meter lead on wire 1 and the black on 4. This sounds like there isn't a black wire 4 and this is earthed in the device ie the metal case (keep your big fingers off the metal parts).

Note the meter response. Now swap the leads around and you should get a significantly different meter response. Have a look at the table, this is the "x" and "o" stuff for a pocket tester or continuity tester.

Do the same between lead 1 and the red lead 5 and do the swap thing again.

Do likewise for lead 2 and the case and the red lead 5.

Do like wise for lead 3.

If you get measures that are match the table then it is PROBABLY OK.

Remember that your meter prolly has a 1.5v battery and your bike is 12v, and as you ride everything is vibrating, shaking and wallowing (Vmax!)

EDIT: what is the voltage across the battery with the motor running?

Waylander
1st November 2006, 20:53
Did what paturoa said and only got a readin on one of the wires as I said earlier and the metal case. which was 30.9 no mater wich poket meter pin was where. All other wires gave me nothing.

Waylander
1st November 2006, 20:54
EDIT: what is the voltage across the battery with the motor running?
12 something and remains that way no matter how high I rev the bike.

jonbuoy
1st November 2006, 20:57
If you're generators not generating AC then the rectifier has nothing to rectify to DC- you need to check those three white wires for AC voltage.

miSTa
1st November 2006, 21:00
Here's something that may help you out (the pdf download):

http://www.electrosport.com/electrosport_fault_finding.html

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:00
If you're generators not generating AC then the rectifier has nothing to rectify to DC- you need to check those three white wires for AC voltage.The ones comming from the stator coil?

I really hate not knowing much about this shit....

jonbuoy
1st November 2006, 21:03
The ones comming from the stator coil?

I really hate not knowing much about this shit....

Those are the ones, this might help - different bike but similar system:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=24377

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:06
Those are the ones, this might help - different bike but similar system:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=24377
Manual had me check the resistance through those wires earlier, came up fin.

Does your test need the bike to be running?

paturoa
1st November 2006, 21:12
The ones comming from the stator coil?

yes

...but leave them connected to the rectifier / reg when you measure the voltage.

Put your meter on AC volts, black lead on the bike and red lead on the wire connector, you should be able to slide the tip under the plastic cover thingie.

With the motor running above idle you should see anywhere between 13-20 v ac on each wire

jonbuoy
1st November 2006, 21:12
For some, it needs to be running to get the AC volts - I had a problem with one of the windings on the generator being shorted to the bike frame.

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:16
yes

...but leave them connected to the rectifier / reg when you measure the voltage.

Put your meter on AC volts, black lead on the bike and red lead on the wire connector, you should be able to slide the tip under the plastic cover thingie.

With the motor running above idle you should see anywhere between 13-20 v ac.Ok, I'll give that a shot, stay tuned. If I don't come ack in like 15-20 mins then I've electrocuted myself heh.

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:28
yes

...but leave them connected to the rectifier / reg when you measure the voltage.

Put your meter on AC volts, black lead on the bike and red lead on the wire connector, you should be able to slide the tip under the plastic cover thingie.

With the motor running above idle you should see anywhere between 13-20 v ac on each wire

ok that came back sweet as had 15.6, 15.6 and 19.5.

paturoa
1st November 2006, 21:31
good, sounds like the prob is between the battery and the input to the rectifier

your rectifier tests sound like the unit is lacking some of the magic blue smoke

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:32
good, sounds like the prob is between the battery and the input to the rectifier

Input to the rectifier? I thought the current went from the Rectifier to the battery?


your rectifier tests sound like the unit is lacking some of the magic blue smoke
ok now you've really lost me...

paturoa
1st November 2006, 21:35
next step, check the voltage at the red wire coming out of the rect/reg leading to the battery without the motor running and then with at idle and above idle.

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:37
next step, check the voltage at the red wire coming out of the rect/reg leading to the battery without the motor running and then with at idle and above idle.
acv or dcv? And do I just unplug it, red wire one end black wire the other? Then start it and do the same or unplug it after starting it?

paturoa
1st November 2006, 21:38
Input to the rectifier? I thought the current went from the Rectifier to the battery?

the unit just converts AC current to DC current and limits the voltage, so think of it as current flowig thru the device



ok now you've really lost me...

"magic blue smoke" is inserted at the factory into electronic devices. This is how they work. When the magic blue smoke comes out, they stop working!

paturoa
1st November 2006, 21:39
acv or dcv? And do I just unplug it, red wire one end black wire the other? Then start it and do the same or unplug it after starting it?

dc as this is what should be flowing into the battery (backwards but lets not go there!)

Red to red and black to an earth point on the frame

eidt: leave plugged

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:42
"magic blue smoke" is inserted at the factory into electronic devices. This is how they work. When the magic blue smoke comes out, they stop working!
I'll take you're word for it...



So at what part of this process does it return charge to the battery?

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:42
dc as this is what should be flowing into the battery (backwards but lets not go there!)

Red to red and black to an earth point on the frame

eidt: leave plugged
ok, as before if not back...

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:47
dc as this is what should be flowing into the battery (backwards but lets not go there!)

Red to red and black to an earth point on the frame

eidt: leave plugged
ok got 12 with bike on but not running and 11.83 with bike running at 2,000rpm.

paturoa
1st November 2006, 21:57
So at what part of this process does it return charge to the battery?

When the voltage of the charging circuit is above the battery voltage
- the current splits and
- part flows normaly thru the bike to power stuff like ignition, lights etc
- the other part flows (backwards) thru the battery to charge it

paturoa
1st November 2006, 21:58
rooted rectifier / regulator! time to go visit a wreckers

edit: where do u live?

Waylander
1st November 2006, 21:59
When the voltage of the charging circuit is above the battery voltage
- the current splits and
- part flows normaly thru the bike to power stuff like ignition, lights etc
- the other part flows (backwards) thru the battery to charge it
Ah makes sense now. So something is wrong between the Rectifier and the batter.

Waylander
1st November 2006, 22:02
rooted rectifier / regulator! time to go visit a wreckers

edit: where do u live?
Tauranga-area

paturoa
1st November 2006, 22:05
Ah makes sense now. So something is wrong between the Rectifier and the batter.

nope, between the rectifier input and output.

With the motor off you saw 12v, which can only come from the battery so that is connected, but we don't know how well.

With the motor running the input to the recitfier was correct as you measured earlier. But the output dropped slightly to 11.8 volts. This again came from the battery and shows the drop in voltage caused by the ignition current draw thru the battery.

If there was a short between the batteryand the rectifier the voltage would have dropped well below 12v and if it was open and the rectifier was putting out properly the voltage would have risen to 14/15 v

paturoa
1st November 2006, 22:06
Tauranga-area

I'm dorkland based - do you want me to have a ring around the wreckers tomorrow?

Waylander
1st November 2006, 22:08
I'm dorkland based - do you want me to have a ring around the wreckers tomorrow?
That would be great man thanks, I owe you a case for this.

STupid thing is for the last few weeks there was a Vmax being parted out on trademe, now it's not there!! I can't even remember what shop it was at.

paturoa
1st November 2006, 22:11
Year and model number?

If it is cheap I'll just go buy it, otherwise I'll PM you with the price.

What is your definition of cheap?

Waylander
1st November 2006, 22:22
Year and model number?

If it is cheap I'll just go buy it, otherwise I'll PM you with the price.

What is your definition of cheap?
Year doesn't really matter lol as the Vmax' are esentially unchanged in 22 years production. ut it's an 88 make sure they know it's the motorcycle as they use the same engine but different wireing for yamaha snowmobiles. Bike model number is VMX12U and reg/rec number is (or rather all the number printed on it)
42X-A1
SH569A-12
T3.4
272

I think the first two are what's relevent.

Yamaha part number is
<table class="p7" id="dgParts" align="center" border="1" bordercolor="Black" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" rules="rows" width="600"><tbody><tr class="commontext" bgcolor="Gainsboro"><td align="center" height="22">
</td><td>42X-81960-A1-00</td><td>RECTIFIER & REGULATOR ASSEMBLY</td></tr></tbody></table>
$50 is cheap for me at the moment.

paturoa
1st November 2006, 22:24
cool, I'll PM you tomorrow.:scooter:

Waylander
1st November 2006, 22:25
I'll check and see how much it is from the shop aswell as call around.

paturoa
2nd November 2006, 20:28
did u get my PM??

only one from AK wreckers $80 bucks...

Waylander
2nd November 2006, 23:05
did u get my PM??

only one from AK wreckers $80 bucks...
Got it and replied mate.

vmx1200nz
5th December 2006, 12:55
fit a switch to turn off the head-light, and use a battery trenderiser.

vmx1200nz
5th December 2006, 12:59
the 93 onwards models get a gruntier alternator, if you are going to do a swap.
also the ground strap, if soldered, not bolted, improves the current.

Waylander
5th December 2006, 18:03
Got it sussed now mate thanks. When we gonna meet up to compare years man?

davereid
5th December 2006, 19:08
To test that rectifier without dismantling it...
1.. put your multimeter om DIODE TEST ( looks like ---<|--- )

2..Test D1 - put meter across TERMINALS 1 & 4
You will get NO READING in one direction, and 0.4-0.8 in the other.

3.. Test D2 - put meter across TERMINALS 2 & 4 same result as above

4.. Test D3 - put meter across TERMINALS 3 & 4

5.. Test D4 - put meter across TERMINALS 5 & 1

6.. Test D5 - you guessed it Terminals 5 & 2

7.. Test D6 - Terminals 5 & 3

OK. If you get NO READING in BOTH Directions across a diode it has failed and gone open circuit. You need a new rectifier. If you get a LOW READING in both directions same thing, but the diode has gone short circuit.

vmx1200nz
6th December 2006, 13:09
as soon as you want to drag-race!:Punk:

Waylander
6th December 2006, 17:45
as soon as you want to drag-race!:Punk:
Haha anytime man!! 1988 versus 2001, Get to see if those minor changes over the years actually did anything for it lol.

vmx1200nz
7th December 2006, 11:08
I'm good to go. Its acutally registered 2002 but manufactured 2000.
had a laugh at the drags, pulled a 11.6 while i was asleep on the first run.
Constellation on-ramp at high noon. dont bring a knife to a gun fight.:dodge:

Waylander
7th December 2006, 22:19
I'm good to go. Its acutally registered 2002 but manufactured 2000.
had a laugh at the drags, pulled a 11.6 while i was asleep on the first run.
Constellation on-ramp at high noon. dont bring a knife to a gun fight.:dodge:
lol Hmm, I'm trying to be in Aucks on the 30th, see how that goes might have to work in a slot at the nightwars thing at meremere.


Been having trouble keeping my front wheel down lately though when doing drag starts...

jkvmax
8th December 2006, 00:57
Waylander...

Go here: http://imageevent.com/jkvmax

to see how I buildt the best ever charging without wasting power in heat.

- Johan

vmx1200nz
8th December 2006, 10:22
this weekend at meremere. A mate is racing a NOS full-on drag bike on sunday.

Waylander
8th December 2006, 16:38
this weekend at meremere. A mate is racing a NOS full-on drag bike on sunday.
Can't make it up this weekend. Spent all my travel money last weekend and on wednesday.



Waylander...

Go here: http://imageevent.com/jkvmax

to see how I buildt the best ever charging without wasting power in heat.

- Johan
Lol it's already sorted mate but I may be interested in that Zboost a little further down the line.

Your bike looks mean as aswell. Wicked as without going overboard. Almost what I want to do to mine.

jkvmax
8th December 2006, 23:34
Ok, just drop me a mail if interested and I will build you a nice kit...

- Johan
http://imageevent.com/jkvmax

Waylander
8th December 2006, 23:41
Ok, just drop me a mail if interested and I will build you a nice kit...

- Johan
http://imageevent.com/jkvmax
You might also want to check out www.Vmaxforum.net

Some of the guys in there may be interested aswell.

Waylander
8th December 2006, 23:45
ALso, how does converting it to EFI affect the Vboost and general behavior of the bike?

jkvmax
9th December 2006, 00:30
The TB's runs on diffrent manifolds so I have no Vboost anymore...
In general the EFI makes the bike smoother performance somewhere between standard carbs and FS.
So for pure power go for flatslides, Mikuni with Vboost seems to be the choice.
EFI setup makes adjusting easyer, with a laptop, and realy easy cold starts.

- Johan
http://imageevent.com/jkvmax