New clutch installed, now there is now pressure on the lever [Archive]

Postie

2nd November 2006, 07:50

I originally thought I had munted a selector fork or the selector drum on the VFR recently, until I took the clutch off and discovered that 2 of my friction plates (of which there are 10) had been stripped of the friction material completely, not just worn but gone, so it looked like a steel (pics to come later) and another 2 had stripped just one side each. So that looked pretty positive that it was my problem, I checked the oil for any other bits of metal or engine debris and all that was in there was friction material from the clutch rings.
So last night the clutch was put back in according to how it was taken out and with guidance from the manual, but when the clutch is pulled, there is nothing to pull against, its like the cable is not even hooked back on to the clutch pin on the left side of the bike (which it is, before the smart comments come out)
I was hoping that once it had oil and got the engine started, it might use the oil pressure to push against, this was a long shot and it missed, still nothing.
So any suggestions? has anyone come across this before?

Motu

2nd November 2006, 07:55

Did you put all the parts you had left over in the bin? Empty the bin and sift through the debri until you find a small ball or pushrod....you are supposed to put the parts back in as you found them,not leave them out because you can't figure out where they go.

Postie

2nd November 2006, 08:05

there were no left over parts, I even took it out, checked it again and put it back in, not a bolt, plate, bearing, cir clip or anything left over. 10 plates and 8 steels came out, 10 new plates and 8 steels went back in with the 3 diaphragm springs blah blah blah........ the clutch has not been micro-lightened.

Motu

2nd November 2006, 08:20

terbang

2nd November 2006, 08:29

Is it a Cable or Hydraulic release?

terbang

2nd November 2006, 08:34

Had a bit of a surf and it looks like its hydraulic. Perhaps it needs bleeding..?

Ixion

2nd November 2006, 08:44

Here's a part fiche of the clutch section of an NC 30. Check that each item shown is reassem bled (especially no 26).

vifferman

2nd November 2006, 08:52

If it's a hydraulic clutch, what almost always happens (on Hhhhhondas at least) is that the clutch slave cylinder wanders out slowly while you're not looking, and you get an air lock. Mucho bleeding required, particularly at the banjo connection at the top and by the slave cylinder at the bottom. You can aid this by pulling the lever in halfway and tapping gently on the reservoir and banjo gently with a small spanner or the like. At the bottom, undo the banjo and let the fluid run through a bit while getting someone to watch the reservoir and top it up. Then pump and pump and pump....

Postie

2nd November 2006, 09:20

I didn't know it had a clutch slave cylinder. Where would it be?

Motu

2nd November 2006, 09:21

Ah,more information is always helpful - how come it never comes from the original questioner?

Postie

2nd November 2006, 09:41

Ah,more information is always helpful - how come it never comes from the original questioner?

I didn't know it was hydrolic, I mean I know its hydrolyic but I didn't know it had a slave cylinder. I still don't know where it is. I'm looking through the manual now, trying to save a picture to show you, but I can't see any mention of a slave cylinder

MSTRS

2nd November 2006, 09:52

I didn't know it was hydrolic, I mean I know its hydrolyic but I didn't know it had a slave cylinder. I still don't know where it is. I'm looking through the manual now, trying to save a picture to show you, but I can't see any mention of a slave cylinder

If it is hydraulic, then it has a master cyl attached to the clutch lever and a slave cyl at the engine end. It will be the unit that the hose attaches to, adjacent to the clutch itself.

vifferman

2nd November 2006, 09:55

I didn't know it had a clutch slave cylinder. Where would it be?
Attached to the outside of the countershaft sprocket cover, on the other side of the en gine from the clutch housing. On the same side as the clutch lever.
At the end of the hose going from the left-hand handle handle handhandklebar.
Where the clutcher levererererrrr is.
Brain...

Brain... needs .... drooogs.... :shit:

Postie

2nd November 2006, 10:27

I can't find mention of a clutch cylinder anywhere. The clutch lever has no reservoir, just the cable down to the drive sprocket cover.

The_Dover

2nd November 2006, 10:31

it's not a hydraulic clutch if it has a clutch cable. doh.

Ixion

2nd November 2006, 10:32

Attached to the outside of the countershaft sprocket cover, on the other side of the en gine from the clutch housing. On the same side as the clutch lever.
At the end of the hose going from the left-hand handle handle handhandklebar.
Where the clutcher levererererrrr is.
Brain...

Brain... needs .... drooogs.... :shit:

Uh, it's a cable clutch. Not hydraulic. So there will be no slave cylinder . Just a cable from the lever to a ranny-megrandad down at the engine left side

(I just went and eyeballed a VFR400 outside to be sure)

EDIT: has the lower end of the clutch cable become disconnected from the ranny-megrandad ? cos while the clutch was in bits there's nothing to keep it in place, sort of.

Ixion

2nd November 2006, 10:36

Forget all mention of hydraulic, slave cylinders, air in system, bleeding. All total red herrings.

There's a bit missing, disconnected, or in backeards/upside down. Did you get the diaphragm springs the right way up?

The_Dover

2nd November 2006, 10:38

terbang

2nd November 2006, 10:38

Looking at the diagrams you posted and assuming they are the correct ones then it has a cable release. Is the clutch engaged or released at the moment. Put it in gear and try to push it along. If it is released and she freewheels (gearbox not connected to the engine as if you have pulled the lever in) then you have assmbled the plates incorrectly. If it is engaged (like when you let the clutch out or the engine is connected to the g/box) then you have assembled release mechanism incorrectly (or left out part of).

vifferman

2nd November 2006, 10:39

Uh, it's a cable clutch. Not hydraulic. So there will be no slave cylinder . Just a cable from the lever to a ranny-megrandad down at the engine left side

(I just went and eyeballed a VFR400 outside to be sure)
Ah.
Misled by Mr Terbang.
Then if the clutch assembly is properly arse-M-bled, it must be the connection to the clutch throw shaft thingo (technical term) that's being naughty.
Been a few years since I had a cable-operated clutch....hmmmm....thinking....thinking.... 1994.
Last time I overhauled a clutch, I had problems with incorrect operation; the clutch basket bolts weren't correctly (evenly) torqued up, so the plates were sticking on the basket.
Make sure that the plates can move in and out properly in the basket; they could be binding on the basket fingers in a 'slightly engaged' position. (I'm just plucking stuff outta my arse here, trying to sound like I know stuff....)
"You laugh because you think I know fuck nothing. Well, let me tell you - I know fuck all!"
- Badly remembered from "The Moon's a Balloon" by David Niven (RIP).

Postie

2nd November 2006, 10:40

Did you get the diaphragm springs the right way up?

I was thinking that, but I am 99% sure I did, still its the 1% uncertainty that worries me.

Ixion

2nd November 2006, 10:47

Ah.
, it must be the connection to the clutch throw shaft thingo (technical term) that's being naughty.

Tch. Technical term indeed. If one is going to use technical terms one should get them right. It's actually the ranny-megrandad. As in my post above .

Ixion

2nd November 2006, 10:50

I was thinking that, but I am 99% sure I did, still its the 1% uncertainty that worries me.

Remember the clutch pushrod enters from behind to push on them . So they'll go in sort of backwards (Maybe y'should get Maurice to have a look at it, sounds like it'd be right up his alley. So to speak. He's used to that too)

Postie

2nd November 2006, 10:59

this is how the springs are supposed to be installed, I'm sure they went in like this. Maybe I'll take them out again and make sure.

erik

2nd November 2006, 13:18

I have no idea of the bike you have,but most have some sort of actuator adjustment,a screw and lock nut....you adjust there before you fit the cable.Some have a rack gear,it's possible to get it in the wrong place.Show us a picture of the actuating mechanism and we might be able to see where it could go wrong.
What Motu said.

you've re-adjusted the clutch cable after putting the new clutch plates in, right? Since the new plates are thicker than the old ones, the cable will have to be tightened.

I can't see from the pictures you've posted whether that just means tightening the cable or if theres another adjustment. On the bandit there's a screw with a lock nut that needs to be adjusted before tightening the cable, but it looks like it's a different system to the nc30.

Pixie

2nd November 2006, 23:10

I didn't know it was hydrolic, I mean I know its hydrolyic but I didn't know it had a slave cylinder. I still don't know where it is. I'm looking through the manual now, trying to save a picture to show you, but I can't see any mention of a slave cylinder

Must be one of those new systems that has a master cylinder at one end and a magic clutch fairy at the other

McJim

2nd November 2006, 23:38

I must be an idiot - I know nothing about bikes and after reading all these words I feel the urge to ask, very simply:

Is the cable too loose perhaps?

The clutch cable is attached to a little arm thingy (at the engine end not the lever end) when you pull the lever does the arm move enough?

I'll probably get red repped for this or you'll have already checked it - I'm trying to help and have not wrapped my help up in sarcasm or abuse.

Hope you get it sorted alright.

Postie

3rd November 2006, 07:46

I took it off again last night, the centre lock nut was partially stripped and wasn't clamping enough. Pretty simple. and yes, it was put on with a torque wrench to 85 pounds which is right according to Honda.