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Bob
22nd July 2004, 00:17
A crash victim's family are campaigning to stop under-16s from riding as passengers on motorbikes.

Sean Pearce-Weston, from Eastbourne, was killed after being thrown from a bike in a collision with a car. The family were unaware that Sean was on the bike and it later transpired that he was wearing an ill-fitting adult's helmet. The rider, a friend of Seanís father, was seriously injured, while the driver of the car was unhurt.

Sean's family has collected more than 3,000 signatures, which they will deliver to the Department of Transport.

moko
22nd July 2004, 06:26
A pet hate of mine is seeing young kids on pillions.I`m always aware of the fact that however good I am there`s still the chance of the un-expected that can have me off,the thought of dropping a bike with a child on the back,well I dont carry any pillions these days,risking my owm neck is one thing,hurt someone else and I`d never forgive myself.Example only this morning,coming home from work at 6a.m.,light this time of year luckily because someone had dropped most of their car`s exhaust system in the road.If it had been dark I doubt I`d have seen it and would have hit it doing 60,good chance of it causing me to crash,bad enough,worse if someone else had joined me on the trip down the road.Of course the problem with this is the same as all the other traffic laws.You guys in N.Z. think life with hardly any traffic cops is heaven,well it`s not and appalling driving,busted or no lights,un-insured or even licensed drivers,red-light jumpers and all kinds of other stuff is the norm here.No way would I take anyone,particularly a child,out to tackle the stupidity of busy roads here.Much as I love riding if I was thinking of starting out now I`d probably decide against having a bike at all,I`ve got years of experience and acquired road-sense,must be pretty daunting for newbies now being thrown into the Lion`s Den of the lunacy on Britains roads.

Posh Tourer :P
22nd July 2004, 09:27
A crash victim's family are campaigning to stop under-16s from riding as passengers on motorbikes.

Sean Pearce-Weston, from Eastbourne, was killed after being thrown from a bike in a collision with a car. The family were unaware that Sean was on the bike and it later transpired that he was wearing an ill-fitting adult's helmet. The rider, a friend of Seanís father, was seriously injured, while the driver of the car was unhurt.

Sean's family has collected more than 3,000 signatures, which they will deliver to the Department of Transport.

I'm sorry, but just because a boy got killed while wearing inadequate gear and was on the bike without family consent, doesnt mean all U16's should be banned from riding as pillion. That is another ridiculous nannying over reaction by non-bikers (I assume - how many of the 3000 signatures were bikers I wonder?) to the percieved danger of riding a motorcycle. I agree that you are more likely to get hurt in a crash, but that doesnt mean they should be banned. Perhaps next a family of a 17yr old who is flatting and bought a motorbike without parental knowledge/permission and died on it will try to collect signatures to ban U18s from riding bikes? It could be a logical extension of the concept. It is a ridiculous over-reaction by people trying to find a way to protect other people's kids, even if others dont want blanket protection. Surely this is a personal choice issue, not a legal issue???

Mongoose
22nd July 2004, 09:49
Follow that line of logic the next will be no under 16's in a car with out parental approval :shake:

Wenier
22nd July 2004, 16:43
yea it really is stupid 16 is old enough to go on a bike. you cant go changing things because someone got hurt, it probably couldnt have been avoided by the motorcycle

Bob
22nd July 2004, 20:43
yea it really is stupid 16 is old enough to go on a bike. you cant go changing things because someone got hurt, it probably couldnt have been avoided by the motorcycle

The petition isn't looking to stop 16 year olds going on a bike - it is to stop under-16s being taken out as pillion passengers. Don't know about NZ (and if someone could fill me in, I'd appreciate the info), but in the UK you cannot ride a bike (and then restricted to 50cc) until you are 16. At 18 you are allowed a 125cc machine and are allowed to take your full test - though even that may be changed if the European Parliament get their way.

As for pillions, as I understand it, the law says that the pillion has to be able to reach the pillion pegs - if they can do that, then they are big enough to be taken on the back (concept being this allows the pillion to support their own weight). Which seems fine to me.

The 'ill-fitting adult helmet' is another matter. Obviously you can't have a range of different helmet sizes at home, but I wonder just how 'ill-fitting' the helmet was? I think the kid was about 8 or 9 years old - but then he could have been quite big for his age and an adult helmet would not have been a problem.

Interesting someone mentioned over-reacting - from what I can find, this is a pretty typical response from those of us that ride bikes (including me). The word used most often is "Nannying". It does strike me as a knee-jerk reaction - which has been leapt upon by the usual bunch of safety-nannies (that word again).

Personally, like Moko I'm not insured to take a pillion any more - I used to take my wife out on the back of my Bandit (and GPZ500S before that) - but these days riding in London is hard work and I'd rather not risk someone else's neck. But if someone else is happy to take their kid out - and does their best to ensure they are properly clothed and protected - that is their choice.

dangerous
22nd July 2004, 21:25
Well I have to agree with those of you that have replyed here. These parents, what are they going to do wrap there kids up in cotton wool? if so for how long?
Hell the boy could of died in the car going to were ever they were going shit he could of brocken his neck during his Sat morning scocer game fallen of his chair backwards at school.... shit you get the idea.

So now those parents who do spend there time with there kids on the bike, like some of my mates that enjoy taking there kids for a ride with them (as kids do enjoy doing the things that dad does) are posibly going to loose that very special conection untill later in life were it may not have the same bond.
Were the hell is this PC crap going to end.... life IS 'dangerous' live it before it dissapairs.

Jackrat
23rd July 2004, 01:09
I agree with Dangerous on this,I rode with my old man and it's what got me into bikes.My dauther rode on the back with me and they were the best times for both of us because I didn't get a lot of time with her like her mum did.Even today we still talk about the time we went to Coro' togeather and she erned major points at school when she pulled up on the back of my first HD.Sure we have to make sure our kids are kitted out right but we can't stop them living life.

maybe
23rd July 2004, 07:42
3000 sigs not alot for the UK

marsh6948
25th August 2004, 23:23
I agree that something must be done to stop very young children riding pillion on motorbikes. Although perhaps the 16 year old limit is a bit too O.T.T. (my 14 year old niece is much taller than me and I'm 5ft 8) I am completely supportive of any campaign to stop young children being put uneccessarily at risk.
A friend of mine and her husband (relatively inexperienced riders) regularly take their two children out, sometimes on long journeys in adverse weather conditions. She is not entirely happy with the situation especially since she dropped her bike with her son on the back ( he was just 5 years old at the time!!!!!) but she hasn't got the bottle to stand up to her arrogant husband. The kids are just 8 and 6 years old respectively, (and only just 6 last month at that) which to anyone's mind is just stupid.
It is said that kids don't have the capacity to grasp the idea of road safety properly before the age of 8, so that has to go for something. I understand that campaigning in Ohio is trying to introduce a ban on children under the age of 11 years old riding pillion, which to me sounds more realistic. If we who feel strongly on this subject, want an achievable target, perhaps we should consider this age for a campaign.
My husband and I do take our kids out occassionally in the sidecar, but this has specially adapted seating and full harnesses. At the end of the day, being experienced bikers, we know all too well how often it is necessary to take quick and defensive action on a bike to avoid trouble. If you have a young child day dreaming on the back, how easy is it going to be for them to be unseated?!
It's all too easy for the people against the campaign to quote statistics, but how many more children have to die as a result of this kind of insane practise - really 6 years old is insane on todays roads? Surely the loss of just one precious life is too much? I for one don't want to be stood at the funeral of a child thinking why?

Karen

Mongoose
25th August 2004, 23:44
I just read an article about something simular and it seems UK folk were getting upset because two under sixteen year olds(pillions) had been killed. Out of something like 3million licensed riders and an approx 1.2million actual riders this does not seem to bad realy.

Bob
7th April 2005, 00:10
An inquest into the death of Sean Pearce-Weston while riding pillion on a motorbike has recorded a verdict of accidental death.

Since the accident, his mother has campaigned to make it illegal for under-16s to ride pillion, collecting more than 3,000 signatures on a petition which was delivered to the Department of Transport. Eastbourne MP Nigel Waterson also introduced a 10-minute bill in the Commons in February calling for safety regulations to be tightened up.

Hopefully the verdict will put an end to well-meaning, but knee-jerk reactions to this tragedy.

SPman
7th April 2005, 07:38
Dont show this thread to Frosty..:ride:

FROSTY
7th April 2005, 08:03
WHAT A LOAD OF TOTAL BOLLOX----- everyone seems to have missed the vital points here--Incorrect fitting helmet and i bet fuck all riding gear.
Age has fuck all to do with it.
Comes to mind the old saying -Full gear or fools gear
I'ts sad it happened to be a youngun for sure but if it was an older person I bet theyd be just as dead.

I've been on a couple of KB rides with my 5 year old son and I think it would be fair to say his riding gear is as good if not better than the stuff worn by other people on the ride. Helmet ,leather jacket MX boots etc (His helmet BTW is a full face shoei which fits him perfectly) He is also a far more competent pillion than most others I've carried.
Also the experience of the rider has a big part to play.Personally I don't think riders should be allowed to cary pillions for 2 years after getting their licences or they attend rider training .

Pwalo
7th April 2005, 08:31
WHAT A LOAD OF TOTAL BOLLOX----- everyone seems to have missed the vital points here--Incorrect fitting helmet and i bet fuck all riding gear.
Age has fuck all to do with it.
Comes to mind the old saying -Full gear or fools gear
I'ts sad it happened to be a youngun for sure but if it was an older person I bet theyd be just as dead.

I've been on a couple of KB rides with my 5 year old son and I think it would be fair to say his riding gear is as good if not better than the stuff worn by other people on the ride. Helmet ,leather jacket MX boots etc (His helmet BTW is a full face shoei which fits him perfectly) He is also a far more competent pillion than most others I've carried.
Also the experience of the rider has a big part to play.Personally I don't think riders should be allowed to cary pillions for 2 years after getting their licences or they attend rider training .

Seems sensible to me Frosty. Everyone on a bike should wear reasonable safety gear. You get in a car and you put on your seat belt. You get on your bike and you (and your pillion) put on your helmet, gloves etc. You can't carry passengers in your car on your learners, so perhaps take pillion pegs off L plated bikes??

Seems a bit of a no brainer, although you can't carry around spare gear so you won't be giving that nice blonde you've just met a the party a lift back to her place.

Yep life's a dangerous occupation, but I guess you can't appreciate life without some risk.

Bob
7th April 2005, 09:26
You can't carry passengers in your car on your learners, so perhaps take pillion pegs off L plated bikes??

In the UK, a learner cannot take a pillion passenger - of course, our laws are different; you are restricted to 125cc for a start, also you've got 2 years to pass your test or you are off the road for 12 months.

That said, I wouldn't think it too bad an idea to disallow pillion for the first 2 years of full licence. If they get rid of Direct Access (UK/EU legal point - there is a 2 year, 33bhp limit after passing test, unless you're 21 or over when you can take a 'Direct Access' test on a bike of 47bhp or more), then it could be part of the 2 year qualifying period that you cannot take a pillion.

But as Frosty says, the issue was ill-fitting kit. In this case, it was an 8 year old wearing an adult helmet. You can bet his head was rattling around in it.

Personally, I adhere (well I did when I still took pillions - I think I had the option of an insurance premium reduction if I went "no pillion", and was only too happy to do so) to the edict of 'If you take a pillion, they get the best kit you can give them'. So if they fit into your decent jacket and you wear your older, tatty one - then that is what you do. They're entrusting their safety to your hands, so it is only fair you give them the best protection you can.

riffer
7th April 2005, 10:27
I was pillioning on a bike at the age of 8 - on Dad's bike.

I wouldn't let my kids go on the back of anyone's bike - I couldn't bear the thought of something happen - but the oldest is only 7. But I'll take them on a bike when they are 8.

At 16 I don't have a problem with them going on another bike as pillion, provided I trust the rider. But as Frosty says, wear the gear.

Pretty obvious really.

But the general population seem to be required to be protected from themselves. :angry2:

FROSTY
9th April 2005, 11:57
I'ts so darned easy and tempting isn't it.?? UNcle Uncle can I have a ride on your BIIIG motorbike.
Ego all puffed up ya wanna give the youngun a bit of a thrill.
I agree with bob Doesn't matter who ya pillion is they should be in decent gear that fits them properly.
Another issue with kids on bikes is the helmet must be appropriayte for them
Kids dont have strong neck muscles like adults so they need lighter helmets
Baby bikies lid is a rf800 weighing 1.6kg but if I took his little brother i would only use a polstar open face which weight a heap less.

betti
11th April 2005, 08:15
all sensible balanced and reasonable points, the general problem in the Uk, is the knee jerk reaction to every bloody thing, ok its sad and unfortunate when people are killed, in whatever form of accident, but a high proportion the Uk population has adopted an immediate, BAN IT NOW! attitude, without any sort of reason behind it, one of the main reasons we moved to Nz! :niceone:

phantom
11th April 2005, 08:29
I just don't feel comfortable taking a pillion partly because of my relative inexperience on this bike but mainly because I now know I'm not immortal ( unlike when I was young ) and IF something happens I don't want to take anyone with me. ( Plus its my toy and I don't share ) :msn-wink: