Cheap oil filters

[Robert Taylor]

Mention the word CHEAP in a header statement and it will instantly attract interest like bees to honey. I make no apology for often looking at issues from a different perspective, the word cheap and how it is applied is always very interesting.

Maybe we shouldnt always be asking why some products appear to be so expensive, but instead why so many products are so cheap...

Back in the late 80's through early 90's I worked for the then Yamaha distributors Moller Yamaha. At that time aftermarket oil filters were becoming more available and some dealers were selling these. So I took it upon myself to buy up all of the known aftermarket filters and had them independently analysed in a laboratory.

Criteria we were looking for included total paper area, releif valve opening pressure and filtration ability in microns. The results with many or most of the aftermarket filters were frankly, horrifying. One brand had only 60% of the paper area of genuine and consistently they all had significantly less paper area than genuine. Other ''results'' included releif valve opening pressure too low ( significantly ) or too high ( again significantly ) and filtration ability ''very coarse''.

Interpretation, less ability to filter properly, less able to to entrap finer wear particles over the course of its fitment, less total ''capacity'' etc etc. I havent for some time evidenced engine failure as a direct result of fitting cheap filters, but inarguably they will shorten the life of an engine.

I have no doubt that there are a number of perfectly good oil filters on the market and invariably these will be at the higher end price wise. But the passage of time since my analysis has not convinced me that the quality of the cheap and cheerful brands has improved, quite the opposite. More and more goods are being made in China and demonstrably many of these companies are ( shall we say ) largely devoid of ethics. And many of these manufacturers have the temerity to use the word quality with respect to their filthy products.

In the same vein it is intensely annoying when a customer says, ''I only want a cheap part because Im selling the bike'' Funny thing human nature.

I suggest being decent to the engine and decent to subsequent owners, fit genuine oil filters and high quality motorcycle specific oil.

[98tls]

i am an old bugger and still subscribe to an even older buggers theory..my old man used to say "changing oil is like giving a bike a blood transfusion.....only use the best",same applies to filters i reckon........

[HDTboy]

Further to that, there is no point in running clean oil through a soiled filter, I always change filters with oil, and I do it many times a day

[Paul in NZ]

There is a BIG difference between cheap and inexpensive!

[Robert Taylor]

Granted that there can be a difference between cheap and inexpensive. But I hear the word cheap used by most of the people most of the time. Long term ( and often even short term ) the more expensive goods turn out in reality to be inexpensive.

[GSVR]

Sometimes stuff like this is cheap only because it hasn't been through many hands each adding their markup and also having the peace of mind the it is a genuine OEM part. Word I got from someone in the industry for many years was that Suzuki or who ever contracts the same people that make the cheap oil filters to make theirs.

Main thing thats going to really increase you engines life is clean good oil. i.e regular oil changes. And if you save money on filters you can afford to change your oil more often I guess.

[Pussy]

There is only one correct option....OEM. I put up a post a few months ago regarding a Champion filter on an SV1000. It leaked from the main body, and looked like it had been made behind a low class dunny in Soweto. To each their own, but I won't touch aftermarket..... except possibly K&N oil filters

[Robert Taylor]

Sometimes stuff like this is cheap only because it hasn't been through many hands each adding their markup and also having the peace of mind the it is a genuine OEM part. Word I got from someone in the industry for many years was that Suzuki or who ever contracts the same people that make the cheap oil filters to make theirs.

Main thing thats going to really increase you engines life is clean good oil. i.e regular oil changes. And if you save money on filters you can afford to change your oil more often I guess.

Sorry Garry, I disagree with much of what you have said. Cynically, ''the earth is flat'' and ''the holocaust never happened''. My point is people will beleive what they want to beleive, and largely to how it affects their pockets. And in an increasingly manipulated world many people will beleive what they are told to beleive. Joseph Goebbels must be laughing in his grave, as will Kim Il Sung who took mind control and indoctrination to new levels.

Motorcycle manufacturers do indeed use outside vendors to supply them with components, but at least the big 4 and the Euro manufacturers have a rigid standard of quality and performance in their filters. But there is absolutely nothing to stop the same supplying vendors producing filters for aftermarket sales that look exactly the same externally except for a different label and packaging. But they likely will have less paper area of a lower filtration quality.

All is never as it seems and not worth the risk.

Moreover, how many of us stop to think about one of the reasons many or most mainland Asian goods are so cheap? Their workers are poorly remunerated and live and work ( for long hours ) in conditions that we as westerners would not accept. So when we complain about a higher priced product produced under a system that treats its workers well are we not being a little hypocritical? Conversely the reality of low wages and high taxes in our own isolated shaky isles dictates a keen sense of budgeting.

So you purchase a bike and under your ''care'' you always rigidly feed it fresh cheap filters, and maybe cheap oil ( another subject ) When you go to sell it will you do the decent thing and tell the purchaser that you have only used cheap goods that will compromise its ultimate life?

Remember Bill Clinton stating ''I did not have sex with that woman'' or Helen Clark ''I was unaware we were speeding''. Also that Products like Ribena are good for you because its full of Vitamin C, said so on the labelling.......

Caveat emptor.

[sAsLEX]

I see your point about CHEAP filters.

But is OEM the only answer? They are making things to a price and a standard, surely other companies have a higher standard..... its just finding one I guess.

I mean OEM things are nice say stereos, they do the job, but replace it with a say Bose or other high end specialist product and you will get better performance. There must be a high spec filter maker somewhere that out does OEM.

[Robert Taylor]

I see your point about CHEAP filters.

But is OEM the only answer? They are making things to a price and a standard, surely other companies have a higher standard..... its just finding one I guess.

I mean OEM things are nice say stereos, they do the job, but replace it with a say Bose or other high end specialist product and you will get better performance. There must be a high spec filter maker somewhere that out does OEM.

That of course is a very valid point. The only issue is sifting through all the mindless marketing hype. And of course free and easy use of arguably the most misused statements in all languages....''good quality, best quality, high quality'' etc.

One of the filter brands we had tested was from an aftermarket company with a long standing well respected name. I would expect the only way of answering who makes the best ( and the worst ) filters is to do exactly what I did 17 years ago. Maybe consumer magazine? As I said previously nothing is ever as it seems....in this case oem is the safest option.

[Sensei]

Has riding that 1098s on Wednesday put you into a new state of Enlightment LOL , always great reading your posts . Ps remmeber the blinkers next time :scooter:

[Robert Taylor]

Has riding that 1098s on Wednesday put you into a new state of Enlightment LOL , always great reading your posts . Ps remmeber the blinkers next time :scooter:

Please, didnt want to world at large to know that I will very occassionally actually ride a motorcycle, but not for enjoyment.

[babyblade250rr]

im sure the same applies to bikes and cages use reputable brands "Reputation" comes from high quality products which = extensive research and quality control which proves "reliable" consistant reliability = quality which = reputable and so on and so forth hehe i could go on all day with just the above two lines.

I'm sure as long as you don't use back yard products that no one has ever herd of you should be fine.

[avgas]

I'm a simple sucker, if i try something and it works. Then i tell the world.
Likewise if i try something and it fails.....all hell breaks loose.
This trial and error approach has taught me that not all OEM stuff is gifts from the gods...nor worth paying through the teeth for all the time.
While i do think some OEM products require merit, i have also been burned big time by OEM stuff.
What really pisses me off is when OEM is so ridiculously overpriced, only to find it was made to the same quality as the after market. Or taking your thing to a Yamaha/Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki mechanic, only to have it being fixed with aftermarket stuff as they cant wait the 12 weeks for Yamaha/Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki Asia (usually Malaysia rather than Japan which doesn't make jack) to get off their fat asses and send shit out.
Why is it cheaper, easier and quicker for me to be sent parts from Europe/USA for the bike than it is for stuff to be sent from OEM china to OEM japan to OEM NZ to OEM distributor to the bloody workshop??????

[imdying]

Because reputation never comes from marketing, oh no...

[Paul in NZ]

Well.... If there is one thing after tyres and oil to get a thread burning with anger it has to be filters....

Cheap filters? Bleugh!

Aftermarket ones? Why not if they are proven to be sound?? Personally I'm horrified by the prices Yamaha list filters (air / oil) for the little FZR400 I'm farting around with but I'm using them anyway. But I can see why people would be tempted!!!

Regardless, change the oil regularly.... Its still the cheapest thing you will ever put in a bike, particularly a big old lug with plain bearings like most of mine...

[F5 Dave]

Yes I do believe that some items are sold after-market from a different door of the same factory but the same product repackaged considerably cheaper. It can't help but be more expensive if it has to go through the manufacturers system & freight. The Wiseco for my GasGas is considerably cheaper if bought from the US as a Wiseco than as a GasGas part. -- At this point I offend the local dealers, but I had heard about the above & it was the case. We live in internet times for shopping. I support NZ shops where I can. Sometimes in different islands if the local guys are slack & they are responsive.

However I also believe as Robert indicates that like all brands they often make several grades, chains & batteries are a prime example. My Yuasa from my YZF750SP lives on in my RF9 14 yrs on just fine, yet someone was dissing them the other day as failing early in life. Made in China vs Japan.

A good quote from a friend was the response from a bearing supplier who had some grief over failing wheel bearings in a well known Aussie car many years ago. "We make $20 bearing, $12 bearing & $8 bearing. -You buy the $8 one".


My experience of always buying after-market oil filters ceased when a fairly new one of a well known brand (can't even remember now) disintegrated & plugged a gallery wearing out the cam & rockers on that side. Didn't seem that cheap then. Genuine from then on.

. . . Well except in the van, but they are comparatively huge & the tits at the local Toyota won't even acknowledge me if I walk in the shop.

Oh yeah & since when have Bose been better than cheap stuff? Marketing purely.

[Robert Taylor]

I'm a simple sucker, if i try something and it works. Then i tell the world.
Likewise if i try something and it fails.....all hell breaks loose.
This trial and error approach has taught me that not all OEM stuff is gifts from the gods...nor worth paying through the teeth for all the time.
While i do think some OEM products require merit, i have also been burned big time by OEM stuff.
What really pisses me off is when OEM is so ridiculously overpriced, only to find it was made to the same quality as the after market. Or taking your thing to a Yamaha/Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki mechanic, only to have it being fixed with aftermarket stuff as they cant wait the 12 weeks for Yamaha/Suzuki/Honda/Kawasaki Asia (usually Malaysia rather than Japan which doesn't make jack) to get off their fat asses and send shit out.
Why is it cheaper, easier and quicker for me to be sent parts from Europe/USA for the bike than it is for stuff to be sent from OEM china to OEM japan to OEM NZ to OEM distributor to the bloody workshop??????


Mmmm, maybe I shouldnt expend time replying to this post as most that have forwarded opinions understand what I was broadly eluding to, oil filters.

The links in the chain of supply ''colourfully'' mentioned by this post fails to mention in fact the biggest influence, freight plus levies plus clearance fees plus taxes, just watch it baloon.....

I have mentioned this on previous posts...it is inequitable that proper commercial operators pay all the levies, commercial clearance charges and taxes on not only the fob value of the goods but also tax on the levies, charges etc. But many one off casual offshore purchases by private individuals very often attract no charges. It is very surprising that this all taxing Government hasnt closed that very big loophole in lost revenue.

We have but 4 million people in these tiny isolated shaky isles and only a small percentage ride motorcycles. Cold hard commercial reality dictates that we dont have a large enough population base for all distributors to have all of the parts all of the time, its a no-brainer when you sit down and think about it.

The people at the factories ( who allegedly are wide of girth and lazy ) are dealing with tens of thousands of line items everyday, the volume of freight is enormous and neccessarily done in an orderly manner. If you have a system that is better then write to the factories.... And btw, I have been to the factories in Japan and driven past supplying vendors in Malaysia. I have also been to the Ohlins factory in Sweden 7 times and evidenced their quality control room checking and testing incoming components from supplying vendors.

Yes, many oem products are expensive as can be many aftermarket products. It is a matter of deciding if the product is suitable with a good standard of performance and durability. Sadly, it seems the metallurgy in many cheap imported products has the same constitution as weetbix. As sub standard oil filters could act like a constricted artery it is not worth the risk. Evidence another post re same.

[bimotabob]

Hi

My two cents worth:

A few years ago Suzuki NZ started importing engine filters (the common GSXR/SV/Bandit one) from China instead of Japan. I'm not sure whether this was because Japan stopped making them or the Chinese ones were cheaper - probably the latter. These have a prefix at the end of the part number that distinguishes them.
I can't say whether these Chinese ones are of poorer quality as without independant testing it's hard to know, but since the bikes made there are made to a arguably much lower standard it's a fair question to ask.
Eg GN250, SJ50 etc

In the past I worked in Industrial Equipment (parts division) with filters being a big part:
Hydraulic, Engine, fuel, Trans - even coolant!
It was scary because people often went for cheap filters on machinery worth over a 100k. This gear would incur losses of $100's to $1000's per day when idle.
Unless a seller has facts to back up how good there filter is why should we trust them?.
But If OEM says its ok to use them that goes a long way with me.

I came across a real no hold barred filter specialist once, these guys sell to the top end market only - I seen filters costing several hundred dollars. Not surprisingly I couldn't move a single unit.
They had lots of info about them though, the filter media was outstanding with coarse then fine layers etc, down to a few microns filtration.

I hear all the time people saying that this part is the same as that part with a different label (and price usually)
Come on people wake up - who told you that?? was there any actual proof provided to you?
It might be true - but is it your pocket that decides?
I bet it is.

What I am saying is that most people seem to want to spent less and is doesnt matter how expensive the gear is - that's why so many cars and bikes blow up - some of my slack mates have had that happen.
BASIC maintenance often just isnt done whether it be a Forklift making money -or even a Harley.
I often wonder whether these people actually manage to convince themselves
they are saving money - kind of like a self serving brain wash.

A great many engine filters for bikes are 'cheap' anyway - what's $10-20? well possibly cheap insurance!
My changes get done at 5000km intervals, I hear others say leave it till 10k it's fine!
I say to them: "did you hear about the person who blew his engine by changing the oil too much?"

If you can't afford an quality oil/filter change then perhaps you should buy a cheap pair of chinese running shoes...




Regards
BB

[Sensei]

Use this brand in my Aprilia " Hiflo "

http://www.hiflofiltro.com/7.0.html

[sAsLEX]

the volume of freight is enormous and neccessarily done in an orderly manner. If you have a system that is better then write to the factories..

The japs invented good supply chain management http://www.12manage.com/methods_jit.html . I still ponder on how come it takes so long to get something, I think its the postage used maybe rather than warehouse level hold ups?



Ok. Your other point and the small market etc and how we should support motorcycle dealers in country.

Spark plugs for a NC30 = $55 dollars each for two available now and a six week wait for the other two.

15 bucks from repco, there next day.

Still hard to justify supporting bike dealers in some things, which is why I would hazard a guess you have specialised in suspension as the "black art" is not something these larger retailers can just bulk purchase.........

[sAsLEX]

NGK is NGK is it not, as they where, just that through the local Honda Dealer they were more.

[imdying]

I think its the postage usedAt a guess, that's probably getting close. They probably bulk ship every 2 weeks or so. Keeps their freight pricing down, but is the reason things are always '3-4 weeks away', even if they only end up taking a week (or a day if they turned out to be in the national store) or whatever. Makes sense though... nobody wants to play $50 freight for a small gasket out of Japan... not when they could have it freight free by waiting 2 weeks.

[F5 Dave]

This is prevalent between different dealers too, a friend used to complain that (many years ago) his shop far outsold a local tyre specific shop yet they paid more for tyres than the tyre shop. Hardly fair but there you go.

Who buys beer or wine at the liqueur shop when the supermarket is cheaper? You'd have to be crazy. But as Robert indicates the social implications are further reaching.

The local non branded petrol station sells petrol about 10cent higher than the big stations. You can bet that they aren't buying it as cheap as they used to & a year after setting up the boom gets lowered. They are truly doomed. Some poor business owner is going down soon.

[HDTboy]

Between Repco ( a big trans tasman chain ) and a small motorcycle dealer the same applies. While as I previously said there are some huge anomolies, it is rather too easy to slag motorcycle dealers without digging into the reasons, whys and wherefores. Over and out

While I'm very reluctant to get into the wrong side of this discussion. I don't think Repco can hold a candle to Honda, when it comes to buying power.

[Robert Taylor]

While I'm very reluctant to get into the wrong side of this discussion. I don't think Repco can hold a candle to Honda, when it comes to buying power.

I understand your fears, if you raise a subject you will get a mixture of carefully though out reasoned responses. And you may also get some kneejerk ''Im angry with the world'' responses. So be it, that is the risk.

In response Repco indeed cannot hold a candle to Honda, but it is not Honda supplying the plugs. With only a little exception they are sourced from the NGK distributor.

[Jeaves]

Interesting thread this .

My opinion on filters : stick with "made in Japan" filters and buy genuine parts where you can.

My opinion on genuine parts: Sure genuine parts are a tad more expensive but worth it with their high manafacturing standards , technical back up and warranty.......thats what i would say to a genuine "car" parts buyer

For the motorcyclists........your getting tucked

[HDTboy]

In response Repco indeed cannot hold a candle to Honda, but it is not Honda supplying the plugs. With only a little exception they are sourced from the NGK distributor.

Are you sure?
I know that BMW NZ get their NGK plugs from BMW AG. I'm assuming Honda would use a similar system.

Most of the time I will buy Genuine bike parts from the dealer, but I will always shop around, and if I can get the same part, in the same box, Why would I pay more? there's only so much aftersales service one can have on an oil filter, or set of spark plugs, and to a lesser degree brake pads.

Don't Ohlins make, distribute, and sell aftermarket parts? :dodge::dodge:

[Jeaves]

I think the dealers get their NGK boxed plugs from Darbis . NGK's in honda boxes would come from Honda Japan who is supplied by NGK Japan.

Some companys also get them out of Aussie. The bigger ones straight out of Japan.

[avgas]

Who makes the Yamaha oil filters anyhow? as Yamaha haven't since 82.

[scumdog]

When it comes to parts/bits that are critical/can fail I'll ALWAYS buy OEM - unless it is a component that has been proven to be superior to OEM.

Non-critical/decorative stuff? At time I'll take my chances.

[imdying]

Yamaha don't make a lot of parts for their bikes I'd bet, including things like ECUs. They'll have a supplier (such as Nippon Denso or whoever it is) that makes them to their specs, so for all intents and purposes it's the same thing.

I would be very surprised if most dealers didn't get plugs from the local NGK importer (Darbis), but as with the BMW example shown above, there are always exceptions.

As far as Repco vs Honda... that's trickier than it sounds, supply channels are probably different worldwide. Probably a more relevant question is, who has more swing, Repco NZ, or Honda NZ. Probably Repco NZ I would've picked. It's tricky because it might be easier to match supplies with the local importer who keeps stock on hand, rather than pulling them from Honda NZ, or then OZ, or then Japan. The economic efficiency of leveraging Honda Japans bulk buying power may be offset by supply times or the associated managment costs of using Honda Japan, if you see what I mean?

[bimotabob]

I used to sell some Suzuki supplied Spark plugs - these look almost the same box wise but have the Suzuki part number on them.

For instance one of the genuine RM125 plugs was about $50 through Suzuki retail and through Darbi's nearly a $100.

A lot of people wouldn't get the correct plugs with the special tip and heatrange because of that cost. I was told some of them damaged pistons because the ignition system didn't like the wrong type.

I'm glad my bikes take the cheap plugs.

Cheers

[Max Preload]

...of course free and easy use of arguably the most misused statements in all languages....''good quality, best quality, high quality'' etc.

And just plain 'quality' with no indication of which end of the quality spectrum they think they rest...

Also, let's not forget, that specification levels of a specific product may change quite rapidly as better materials become cheaper. And while the driving force behind price is often found in the cost of those materials, price does not always equate with quality in NZ due to our geographical location.

So how is one to know? One could perhaps do what you did and have the filtration properties of each filter available at any one time tested, and select the best. But this is impractical. What would be practical is either legislation requiring mandatory labelling of specifications relevant to the products use (particle filtration size, area, by-pass lift pressure etc). just as is done with food. Even the magazines could get onboard and start doing and publishing independent testing.

[Robert Taylor]

And just plain 'quality' with no indication of which end of the quality spectrum they think they rest...

Also, let's not forget, that specification levels of a specific product may change quite rapidly as better materials become cheaper. And while the driving force behind price is often found in the cost of those materials, price does not always equate with quality in NZ due to our geographical location.

So how is one to know? One could perhaps do what you did and have the filtration properties of each filter available at any one time tested, and select the best. But this is impractical. What would be practical is either legislation requiring mandatory labelling of specifications relevant to the products use (particle filtration size, area, by-pass lift pressure etc). just as is done with food. Even the magazines could get onboard and start doing and publishing independent testing.
That is quality, reasoned thinking.

[roogazza]

R T, " Let the buyer beware " ! You write and think like someone I know here in Wgton ? Don't worry, its a good thing ! Gaz. :yes:

[ynot slow]

I went in for one for the bike,they didn't have in stock but in next day,$13.00 all up,bought not in home town,but in a larger town (pop 5000),as I was working there for day or 2 and knew local dealer would be closed before i'd get home sat arvo,wanted to change filter prior to ride the next day.Never said I want el-cheapo,just a filter so trust they gave me trusted brand,as that was what they used for all the filter changes in their workshop.

[Pixie]

I went to the trouble of disassembling the 3 common brands of filter on the market.
I found that visually the Vesrah was identical to the OEM part.
The Hiflo was slightly uneven in the arrangement of the media pleating.
The 3rd brand Emgo had slightly less media.
I couldn't test the porosity of the media,but the thickness and fineness of the fibres was similar in all.
I replace the filters at half the recommended interval to offset any difference in filtering ability.
I also checked the used filters for any ruptures or tears and saw no signs of this.
I did find a highly recommended and expensive AMSOIL filter for my car,had a element assembly that was half the size of the Purolator filters I was using.
The media had also been poorly bonded to the end caps,leaving a gap for oil to pass through.

This site has useful filter info:
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html#OilFilters

As for dealers justifying their mark-ups - The example of some Moldex disposable foam ear-plugs, on sale in a well known central Auckland bike shop for $13 for 2 pairs,when NZSafety sell the same pack for $3 and Moldex Silicone Reusables for $5 leaves me highly skeptical

[Max Preload]

I couldn't test the porosity of the media,but the thickness and fineness of the fibres was similar in all.
Not particularly scientific.


I replace the filters at half the recommended interval to offset any difference in filtering ability.


It doesn't work like that, in fact if anything, it'll do the opposite. Particles below the filtration size will make their way through a fresh filter more easily than a semi-clogged filter, although less oil and particles will by-pass the filter altogether.

[Max Preload]

Why don't standard GSXR shocks have a choice of springs and why can't Suzuki make them as good as Ohlins.

You answered your own question. See here:

Goes along with my thoughts that just because something is OEM doesn't mean its going to be best. Vehicle makers try to save money just like anyone else.

[GSVR]

Not particularly scientific.

It doesn't work like that, in fact if anything, it'll do the opposite. Particles below the filtration size will make their way through a fresh filter more easily than a semi-clogged filter, although less oil and particles will by-pass the filter altogether.

Seems like a good oil filter or any oil filter must produce friction as the oils getting pushed though those tiny pores and the oil pumps going to rob power from my engine.

Maybe I'll rip all the filter paper out and just change to oil alot. Just have to remember not to grind the gearbox and send shards of metal into my bearing journals.

But aleast I wont have to worry about oil gallerys getting blocked with dissintergating filter material.

[Robert Taylor]

Seems like a good oil filter or any oil filter must produce friction as the oils getting pushed though those tiny pores and the oil pumps going to rob power from my engine.

Maybe I'll rip all the filter paper out and just change to oil alot. Just have to remember not to grind the gearbox and send shards of metal into my bearing journals.

But aleast I wont have to worry about oil gallerys getting blocked with dissintergating filter material.
Cripes, remind not to even think about trading a bike with thought patterns like that having gone into its ''care''.

Im not ''having a go'' at you personally and dont wish to engage in ''back and forth, back and forth''

Suffice to say its worth thinking about certain goods and why many are so cheap. Many aftermarket products are excellent, even some of the cheap ones. Many are rubbish.

Oil filters, at least what the oem manufacturers have ''chosen'' ( if you want to view it that way or whatever ) for oem fitment it is at least a known standard acceptable to them. Unless you have a lot of honest, transparent data at your fingertips it is difficult to know just how bad the cheapest filters with ''dingdongdit'' labels actually are.

Let the buyer beware.

[Mr Merde]

The japs invented good supply chain management .........

Sorry to disagree with you here but they didnt invent the above mentioned systems. I agree that they have DEVELOPED them into very good systems.

From my time at uni studying engineering design and quality control I seem to remeber that it was the Americans who took those systems to Japan after WW2 as an aid to recovering their industry after such.

Mr :shit:

[sAsLEX]

Sorry to disagree with you here but they didnt invent the above mentioned systems. I agree that they have DEVELOPED them into very good systems.

From my time at uni studying engineering design and quality control I seem to remeber that it was the Americans who took those systems to Japan after WW2 as an aid to recovering their industry after such.

Mr :shit:

Who invented the car?

Henry Ford.

Ok he probably didn't but he made them a reality to all, so in pop culture he could arguably be called the inventor of the modern day auto mobile.


I remember learning the Jap supply chain thing at uni, not who invented it, you often only ever hear the most popular or successful. Wright vs Pearse.

[Pussy]

Did an oil and filter change on Gassit Girl's 750 this evening.... and yes, the GENUINE Suzuki filter HAS got the protective plastic cover on it

[sAsLEX]

Did an oil and filter change on Gassit Girl's 750 this evening.... and yes, the GENUINE Suzuki filter HAS got the protective plastic cover on it

Of note the cheap 20 dollar "green and black" (can't remember brand) ones I get also come with the plastic cove.

[Robert Taylor]

Of note the cheap 20 dollar "green and black" (can't remember brand) ones I get also come with the plastic cove.
Yes, know the brand. Looks good quality but surprisingly on one of the samples purchased for test 17 years ago the total paper area was 65% of oem. Other samples of the same brand matched oem for paper area....

Overstating the case but kind of akin to Russian roulette.

[NighthawkNZ]

You get what you pay for... you buy cheap you get cheap...

[F5 Dave]

Hey that's a fabulous & insightful addition to this long dead thread.

[unsubscribe]

[codgyoleracer]

Yes, know the brand. Looks good quality but surprisingly on one of the samples purchased for test 17 years ago the total paper area was 65% of oem. Other samples of the same brand matched oem for paper area....

Overstating the case but kind of akin to Russian roulette.

Here one for ya -
The OEM filta for my Suzoooki has "made in china" stamped on it , - whilst the aftermarket one that came off it has "made in Japan" on it - Go figure .........:buggerd: