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Bob
23rd September 2004, 23:17
Yamaha has announced the start of road tests on a motorcycle powered by a methanol fuel cell. The aim is to collect data on the environmental impact of the fuel technology.

The tests are being conducted on the FC06 model, which is based on the firm's Passol electric scooter. The motorcycle carries fuel cells and a 4-litre fuel tank, enabling it to travel more than 100 kilometres,
and emits less carbon dioxide than gasoline-powered models, according to the company.

Yamaha aim to market the vehicle in 2005.

Honda are also developing fuel cell motorcycles using hydrogen in an effort to produce a more environmentally-friendly mode of transportation.

DarkNinja
29th September 2004, 20:49
Wonder what it sounds like.....

StoneChucker
29th September 2004, 21:19
I'm ALL for saving the environment (I spent all of my high school years doing that in depth), but I'm very sceptical about fuel cell, hybrid, electric, flux capacitor driven vehicles. I'm under the impression that, for the moment anyway, they are inferior when compared with normal petrol powered vehicles. They can't perform as well, or go as far as what we are already using, so why would we, I, change over to something less efficient?

Now, ofcourse I understand that if we don't start doing something about the consumption of natural resources, we'll have no choice in a decade or 5 to plug in an extension lead and drive 500m to the next power socket, and so on. But, if they want me to spend my money on one now, it better be at least equal to what I've got at the moment, and look the part too.

Maybe in 50 years, we'll all own alternative powered vehicles, but keep a petrol beast for weekend enjoyment :niceone:

avgas
17th November 2004, 18:24
I did some reasearch on electric motors,
found that the electric cars and motorbikes (could be power by fuel cells) ran faster than convetional motors.
In fact the pikepeak hillclimb electric race cars had to have sirens so as not to hit people that didnt hear it travelling at 200+ks on gravel up hill track

rodgerd
17th November 2004, 20:41
I'm ALL for saving the environment (I spent all of my high school years doing that in depth), but I'm very sceptical about fuel cell, hybrid, electric, flux capacitor driven vehicles. I'm under the impression that, for the moment anyway, they are inferior when compared with normal petrol powered vehicles. They can't perform as well, or go as far as what we are already using, so why would we, I, change over to something less efficient?
One interesting option available right now is biodiesel: a standard diesel will run quite nicely on many vegetable oils. There's already a lot of this dumped as waste (eg from fast food joints), so why not use them as fuel instead?

It doesn't solve emissions problems: it does, however, eliminate a huge number of environmental negatives caused by the supply of oil.

scroter
18th November 2004, 11:43
i think hydrogen fuel cell is the fuel of the future. derived from water by product is water, in fact i think we have it now if they could figure out a way to charge us for normal water.

Bob
18th November 2004, 21:17
i think hydrogen fuel cell is the fuel of the future. derived from water by product is water, in fact i think we have it now if they could figure out a way to charge us for normal water.

They've been trialling (or had been, I've not seen one of them for a while) hydrogen fuel cell powered busses in London.

Very quiet, seem smooth and efficient. Every now and then, there is a spout of water puffed out of the back!

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/buses/downloads/fuel-cell-buses.pdf

Stinger
18th November 2004, 23:24
i think hydrogen fuel cell is the fuel of the future. derived from water by product is water, in fact i think we have it now if they could figure out a way to charge us for normal water.

It may end up being the way of the future..., but at the moment it's just a big have. Everyone gets really excited about these hydrogen fuel cells, on top gear they were talking about it - it made it sound as if these cars could actually run on water. The actual case at the moment, is that a huge amount of power (electricity) is used to seperate the hydrogen from the water... so at the moment they are not environmentally friendly.

Jamezo
18th November 2004, 23:39
It may end up being the way of the future..., but at the moment it's just a big have. Everyone gets really excited about these hydrogen fuel cells, on top gear they were talking about it - it made it sound as if these cars could actually run on water. The actual case at the moment, is that a huge amount of power (electricity) is used to seperate the hydrogen from the water... so at the moment they are not environmentally friendly.

don't know about huge amounts of power, using fossil fuel generation to generate hydrogen still produces less carbon dioxide than the equivalent amount of driving with an internal combustion engine. ideally/eventually, this power would be supplied by renewable sources.

the total efficiency of a car is about 18%, the maximum efficiency of a fuel cell is 80%, and the general efficiency of an electric motor is 80%. not sure about the efficiency of the water splitting process.

Stinger
19th November 2004, 08:54
don't know about huge amounts of power, using fossil fuel generation to generate hydrogen still produces less carbon dioxide than the equivalent amount of driving with an internal combustion engine. ideally/eventually, this power would be supplied by renewable sources.

the total efficiency of a car is about 18%, the maximum efficiency of a fuel cell is 80%, and the general efficiency of an electric motor is 80%. not sure about the efficiency of the water splitting process.

The generation of electricy is about 50% (about 80% is possible though), if you make the hydrogen electrolytically then it's about 60% efficient. Then you have to factor in the energy required to compress the hydrogen into your tank so that you can actually travel any distance... if we go with something like 4000psi, then you're again using about 20% of the power.


So at this stage a HUGE amount of power is required - and in NZ where we don't have nuclear power that demand would have to be made up from fossil fuels.... so we'd burn more petrol than the petrol car alternative.

But thankfully the process of making hydrogen that we used above isn't the only way. It's also possible to use ethanol, and other processes. This way it would be much better. So I think it could well be the future.... It's just important to remember that at the moment these "Fuel Cells" are just batteries, they don't turn water into power !

Jamezo
19th November 2004, 10:12
The generation of electricy is about 50% (about 80% is possible though), if you make the hydrogen electrolytically then it's about 60% efficient. Then you have to factor in the energy required to compress the hydrogen into your tank so that you can actually travel any distance... if we go with something like 4000psi, then you're again using about 20% of the power.


So at this stage a HUGE amount of power is required - and in NZ where we don't have nuclear power that demand would have to be made up from fossil fuels.... so we'd burn more petrol than the petrol car alternative.

But thankfully the process of making hydrogen that we used above isn't the only way. It's also possible to use ethanol, and other processes. This way it would be much better. So I think it could well be the future.... It's just important to remember that at the moment these "Fuel Cells" are just batteries, they don't turn water into power !

you wouldn't believe how many morons think you can run a car on water, this one guy I know passionately believes that there exists a car that uses a 9V battery to electrolyse water, and burns the produced hydrogen ICE style. he supposedly has seen it for himself, and cannot be swayed by certain principles of thermodynamics...

Motu
19th November 2004, 11:50
The way of the future is the Joe Cell - of course all the car companies have killed those resposable and burried all the plans - why don't Yamaha get their act together and put a Joe Cell in the Royal Star?

I got the plans for a Joe Cell,very easy to make...one day.....

Joe Cell (http://)

Jamezo
19th November 2004, 12:31
hmm, read up on the joe cell, invented by some guy who had some kind of near death experience, and was supposedly guided into how to make it through some kind of spiritual guidance.

the people who have made it 'work' believe that it takes its power from psychic 'orgone' energy. it's kind of a reccurring theme on the net, psychicly powered free energy sources...

Stinger
19th November 2004, 13:16
Kewl, psychically powered free energy :Punk:

Blakamin
19th November 2004, 14:14
The way of the future is the Joe Cell - of course all the car companies have killed those resposable and burried all the plans - why don't Yamaha get their act together and put a Joe Cell in the Royal Star?

I got the plans for a Joe Cell,very easy to make...one day.....

Joe Cell (http://)

busted link??? or bad url
anyone up for a conspiracy theory?

riffer
19th November 2004, 15:08
busted link??? or bad url
anyone up for a conspiracy theory?
bad url, unless http:/// conforms to the web standards now.

Coyote
19th November 2004, 17:18
Well according to that NZ scientist guy, if we don't get our act together, civilisation will be no more by the end of this century. So I wellcome the idea of hydrogen and electricity.

Blakamin
19th November 2004, 17:54
bad url, unless http:/// conforms to the web standards now.
in that case I'll go for conspiracy theory and hope motu is still alive!!! :lol:

Motu
19th November 2004, 19:55
busted link??? or bad url
anyone up for a conspiracy theory?

Sorry,just economics - when I get my Joe Cell up and running I'll use my riches to overthrow Microsoft....I will be a new power on earth,And never again will they dare to call me
A freckled, spotty, specky, four eyed
Weedy little creep!

Jamezo
19th November 2004, 20:21
Sorry,just economics - when I get my Joe Cell up and running I'll use my riches to overthrow Microsoft....I will be a new power on earth,And never again will they dare to call me
A freckled, spotty, specky, four eyed
Weedy little creep!

just be careful, the Satanist Masonic Zionist International-Jewry New-World-Order Illuminati will be on your tail, they control the financial institutions and the oil industry! warn the others before it's too late!

Bob
19th November 2004, 22:44
Try this link - seems to be a decent enough explanation of the 'Joe Cell' to my less than technical eye (http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml)

inlinefour
26th November 2004, 08:09
Wonder what it sounds like.....

A scooter that can travel 100km? Bad enough that its a scooter. :crazy:

RiderInBlack
26th November 2004, 08:24
i think hydrogen fuel cell is the fuel of the future. derived from water by product is water, in fact i think we have it now if they could figure out a way to charge us for normal water.They already have. Just have a look at the price we are getting suckered for if you are stupid enough to buy drinking water like H2GO:stupid:

vifferman
26th November 2004, 08:44
Hey Honda - stop dredging up old threads.

RiderInBlack
26th November 2004, 08:49
Try this link - seems to be a decent enough explanation of the 'Joe Cell' to my less than technical eye (http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml)Have been reading a little of this link and it sounds like normal electrolysis of water to me. The 3 "Gasses" they talk about if they were using Chlorinated town water, would be Hydrogen (H), Oxygen (O) and Chlorine (Cl). Inginiting Cl with H causes one hell of a reaction and would leave a by-product of HCl (Hydrochloric acid:shit:, not good for any metal or the environment). Other gases could be produced as well if the water is not 100% pure.

Stinger
26th November 2004, 09:14
They already have. Just have a look at the price we are getting suckered for if you are stupid enough to buy drinking water like H2GO:stupid:


Haha, theres a really good H2GO substitute called Manukau water, reading the side of it is really good.... bottled straight from the tap etc.. Manukau water is one of the major tap water depts in Auckland. They give these bottles out free to market their water or something (Don't ask me ?).

Pixie
3rd April 2005, 09:22
Wonder what it sounds like.....

Like this.....wwhhiiinnnnnnnnnne

Pixie
3rd April 2005, 09:28
i think hydrogen fuel cell is the fuel of the future. derived from water by product is water, in fact i think we have it now if they could figure out a way to charge us for normal water.

Not forgetting,of course,the coal fired power station that provided the electricity for the electrolysis of the water.

cowpoos
3rd April 2005, 17:34
thats all crap....check out these links and do some more web searchs...
this is the searle effect...continuous electricity...and it does more for free!!!

it goes super conductive and will levatate


http://www.searleffect.com/

http://www.ctglabs.com/SEG_1.htm

http://www.americanantigravity.com/searleffect.html

Krusti
3rd April 2005, 18:11
Wonder what it sounds like.....

Blub Blub Blub Blub Blub Blub Blub Blub Blub Blub :lol: