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View Full Version : I binned. Lesson of the Day...



bomma
10th February 2008, 13:18
So we were having a blast yesterday going round the coro....macstar, gremlin, zapf and myself managed to chase down the 250s just past coro township and took off toward whitianga....as usual me and macstar kept it tight and were enjoying the mountain.....

THE ACCIDENT!!!
so i came around another left hand corner going up the mountain about 5kms before whitianga and right in my line was a rock aimed at my front tyre.....

THE CHOICES....
so i had a choice to make, either hit the rock and low side or veer right onto the opposite lane to avoid it and hit an oncoming car

The DECISION
so i decided to chance it with the rock and as expected the front wheel slipped to the right and i went sliding forward with the bike sliding up bwhind me.....

The LANDING
thankfully i ended up in a bank coz the bike had slid till it was over my legs and then rolled, with the majority of the bike, led by the hot exhaust pipe, poised to crush my torso....lucky for me i ended up at the bottom of the ditch and the sides of the ditch held the bike up above me and i was able to slide out from under having avoided being crushed by my own bike.

The LESSONS
I know where you are coming from quasi but no i am DEFINATELY NOT taking this lightly!!! I am immeasurably grateful to have gotten away as lightly as i have and thank my lucky stars that i was able to walk away from the bin.

Given the choices that i had i believe i made the right one BUT.......

The mistake i made was narrowing my choices down to those two.....in retrospect i should have included a third choice, "Keep looking around the corner and see if she'll go any lower"......

Its amazing how quickly it happened but its also amazing that it felt like i had a lot of time to decide what to do....felt like my brain was working a mile a minute processing everything that led to the decision.....

I was also wearing the right gear and feel that this has saved my skin....literally.....thanks to Quasi for the jacket and gloves, Revitt for my pants and boots and Nitro for the helmet. I would recommend these bits of gear for any rider!!!!

I definately have not been scared off biking but do have a new found respect for bikes.......however i dont think i will be re-investing in a bike till i finish studying simply because of the costs involved and coz my mum and dad are now even more worried than they were before :mellow:

Ragingrob
10th February 2008, 13:35
Yeah bad luck bro... Lucky there was no car anyway cause you would've slid right into it! Hope you enjoyed the rest of the day scraping out Macsters pegs though haha!

Jantar
10th February 2008, 13:36
...

BUT.......

The mistake i made was narrowing my choices down to those two.....in retrospect i should have included a third choice, "Keep looking around the corner and see if she'll go any lower"......... :mellow:

A lesson well learned is one never forgotten.

You also had a fourth choice: Ride at such a speed as you can stop in the clear visible distance ahead.

However, I'm glad you are OK and you WILL be out riding again. :niceone:

bikerboy011
10th February 2008, 13:39
Shit man that really sucks, good to hear that your alright.

Macstar
10th February 2008, 13:53
Yep, I was in front of Bomma at the time and caught a glimpse of a dust cloud in my mirror, slowed down and then remember my heart sinking as I waited for him to come around the corner but he didn't...

I was surprised to see him go down as in my opinion Bomma is one of the most skilled riders in the SMC club. Equally surprising was a lack of injuries - I guess a fair amount of speed must have been lost by the time the bike and rider went into the ditch.

Another scary realisation for me is that I only have 3 regular riding buddies now that haven't crashed in the time I have known them. I won't jinx those 3 people by naming them!!

Macstar
10th February 2008, 13:59
BTW bomma - you gotta get back on that horse cause you're my main riding buddy! I'll do ya a deal on the KTM, that baby won't do much more than 140kph and sits nicely at 100-120kph. She eats corners and doesn't mind the odd slide down the road. It will turn you into a pretty compentant mechnic too!

The Stranger
10th February 2008, 14:06
Sounds suspiciously like very long way of saying target fixation.

MSTRS
10th February 2008, 14:11
Sounds suspiciously like very long way of saying target fixation.

Yep - 'had a choice of two options' and went where he looked.

Mr Skid
10th February 2008, 14:37
THE CHOICES....
so i had a choice to make, either hit the rock and low side or veer right onto the opposite lane to avoid it and hit an oncoming carIt must have been a terribly big rock, taking up your entire lane, that you would need to veer into opposing traffic to avoid it.

How did the other riders get around it?

jrandom
10th February 2008, 14:45
It must have been a terribly big rock, taking up your entire lane, that you would need to veer into opposing traffic to avoid it.

bomma's already admitted that he failed to consider simply steering inside it. One presumes this was because he was riding close enough to his personal performance limit that he simply didn't feel he had the option of tightening his line, and could only hold it or widen it.

I don't think that being sarcastic about it is going to make him a better rider in future. He's not being a twat, he fucked up and admitted it. He doesn't require slapping down.

Let he who is without sin and always rides perfectly cast the first stone. The guy's bruised and has a broken bike; try being nice.

:Pokey:

renegade master
10th February 2008, 14:59
I didnt notice any rocks on the road :|

Mr Skid
10th February 2008, 15:06
bomma's already admitted that he failed to consider simply steering inside it. One presumes this was because he was riding close enough to his personal performance limit that he simply didn't feel he had the option of tightening his line, and could only hold it or widen it.

I don't think that being sarcastic about it is going to make him a better rider in future. He's not being a twat, he fucked up and admitted it. He doesn't require slapping down.

Let he who is without sin and always rides perfectly cast the first stone. The guy's bruised and has a broken bike; try being nice.

:Pokey:Not at all, I recall running out of talent and on the way to Taupo once and running over a squished possum - a curious experience.

I would imagine that there were other lines through the corner that didn't involve said rock.

bomma
10th February 2008, 15:19
It must have been a terribly big rock, taking up your entire lane, that you would need to veer into opposing traffic to avoid it.

How did the other riders get around it?

well from what i know about riding not every person follows the same line....this is dependant on the rider and the bike......and in all honesty there was only one person in front of me and that was isaac on a hornet 900....


bomma's already admitted that he failed to consider simply steering inside it. One presumes this was because he was riding close enough to his personal performance limit that he simply didn't feel he had the option of tightening his line, and could only hold it or widen it.

I don't think that being sarcastic about it is going to make him a better rider in future. He's not being a twat, he fucked up and admitted it. He doesn't require slapping down.

Let he who is without sin and always rides perfectly cast the first stone. The guy's bruised and has a broken bike; try being nice.

:Pokey:

thanks man and yes like jr says i do realise ive fuct up but i guess its what i take away from this thats important....and yes i was pushing it quite hard but i still dont think it was far beyond my skill level....just got a bit spooked mayb but will get better with more exp :niceone:

duckaddict
10th February 2008, 15:22
Can't agree more!


bomma's already admitted that he failed to consider simply steering inside it. One presumes this was because he was riding close enough to his personal performance limit that he simply didn't feel he had the option of tightening his line, and could only hold it or widen it.

I don't think that being sarcastic about it is going to make him a better rider in future. He's not being a twat, he fucked up and admitted it. He doesn't require slapping down.

Let he who is without sin and always rides perfectly cast the first stone. The guy's bruised and has a broken bike; try being nice.

:Pokey:

Unit
10th February 2008, 15:37
Bomma good on you for your honest recall of your incident, and glad to hear your OK, most important.
You will be a better rider for this in the long run (dont get me wrong I dont encourage this sort of learning). We all need to be in touch with our mortality

Ragingrob
10th February 2008, 15:44
Yeah c'mon give him a break!!! Otherwise there's no point in posting anyone's crash ever since people will just give smart remarks. I doubt that there are many, if any, crashes in this world that would be COMPLETELY and utterly the other person's fault. You could always come up with some "solution" that would've saved them.

Overall, you weren't there...So you don't know.

HungusMaximist
10th February 2008, 16:52
You'll be right Bomma be a good boy and finish your studies first

I am sure Raj will let you borrow his R6 for the mean time.

Btw, what exactly is the damage on the bike? Is it gonna get written off or are you gonna attempt to salvage it?

Maha
10th February 2008, 18:02
Sounds suspiciously like very long way of saying target fixation.


It does indeed Te' Stranger...why only last week on Waifangi day, i had a similar incident on SH16...saw the road kill, looked away (no time to speak of here) and just clipped it, bike did a little 'twitch. Didnt know if it was the back or rear tyre that clipped it, thats how much i wasn't looking at it!....:crazy:

HornetBoy
10th February 2008, 18:05
Bugga man ,is it repairable ?

Squiggles
10th February 2008, 18:08
Btw, what exactly is the damage on the bike? Is it gonna get written off or are you gonna attempt to salvage it?

Hot topic :shifty:

If all else ill give you 5 hundrey for it nish :eek:

PirateJafa
10th February 2008, 19:03
Hot topic :shifty:

If all else ill give you 5 hundrey for it nish :eek:

Because we all know you need ANOTHER bike. :sweatdrop

HungusMaximist
10th February 2008, 20:24
Hot topic :shifty:

If all else ill give you 5 hundrey for it nish :eek:

I'll give ya $505..

Make a great track bike! :clap:

Macstar
10th February 2008, 21:29
The vultures are circling already

Squiggles
10th February 2008, 21:43
I'll give ya $505..

Make a great track bike! :clap:

Bastard, buy now for 510 and ill pick it up tomorrow?


:rolleyes:

Nish, if things dont go your way ill give you a hand with getting her nice and tidy again :niceone:

ital916
10th February 2008, 22:02
Lesson learnt, back on the horse eh. :D.

renegade master
10th February 2008, 22:08
bomma, what did the cop do? did you get charged?

MidnightMike
10th February 2008, 22:11
When I came round that corner with part of our group slowing us down I though we might be looking a something far more serious than what happened. Lucky eh, could've been worse.

-Mike

MidnightMike
10th February 2008, 22:24
For anyone who was wondering how big the rock was......

<img src="http://www.californiachaparral.com/images/555_mudslide_THE_ROCK.jpg">

Hardly avoidable really... :bleh:

klyong82
10th February 2008, 23:51
Nish, if things dont go your way ill give you a hand with getting her nice and tidy again :niceone:

Leave the ninja alone guys.

I am just glad you are ok Nish I came round the corner and saw you on the ground sort of scare the shit out of me. By the way I did my own coro loop yesterday till I met the rest.

It is great that this experience has not made you chicken out on bikes yet. I know you to be a skilled rider and that you werent trying to pull some funny grand prix action on that bend. Heal up for now. Start saving for another bike too.

Let me know if you need any help eh....

Squiggles
11th February 2008, 04:15
Start saving for another bike too.

Let me know if you need any help eh....

No more Hondahs.

Nish, you'll be alright mate, have a good long think about what happened and how you wont let it happen again and you'll be up again in no time. It's happens to the best of us sometimes (no! its not inevitable, but sometimes it happens)

babyblade250rr
11th February 2008, 10:27
I've ridden with Nish a few times now and he is a very good rider! so if he went down it must be genuine with very limited options,

Glad to hear your ok brother!

by the way pics of the Kwaka don't look that bad!, just how far is the extent of damage??

bomma
11th February 2008, 12:01
hey guys thanks for all the comments and im not yet sure what will be happenin with the bike!! in any case even if i get it back i wont be puttin her up for sale so :bleh:

this incident has taught me many very valuable lessons and in a lot of ways i am better off from it (although i wish the lesson hadnt been learnt at such a high price)......

i will be hitting some of you up for your tools, hook-ups and expertise if i look to fix the bike up!! ive got a few plans on what ill be doing if i get the bike back so yea.....

cheers for all those who stayed and helped and the rest of the guys who were on the ride...cudnt have done it without you guys!! :2thumbsup and a SPECIAL thanks to MACSTAR who is the man and is the reason im not still walking back home from whitianga carrying a helmet and wearing a ripped jacket and pants :niceone: i owe ya one matey

EDIT: oh and the cop called me on sunday morning to lemme know that he had a look at my record and that he decided to let me off wif a warning....was a lot nicer over the phone than he was on saturday

Badjelly
11th February 2008, 12:29
Overall, you weren't there...So you don't know.

You don't have to have been there to know that he was going too fast round the corner.

If you come round a corner on the road and encounter a stationary obstacle and can't avoid it then either: a) you're a really bad rider; or b) you were going too fast. I vote for b.

skidMark
11th February 2008, 12:34
bomma's already admitted that he failed to consider simply steering inside it. One presumes this was because he was riding close enough to his personal performance limit that he simply didn't feel he had the option of tightening his line, and could only hold it or widen it.

I don't think that being sarcastic about it is going to make him a better rider in future. He's not being a twat, he fucked up and admitted it. He doesn't require slapping down.

Let he who is without sin and always rides perfectly cast the first stone. The guy's bruised and has a broken bike; try being nice.

:Pokey:

Top post brother.:headbang:

jrandom
11th February 2008, 12:41
... either: a) you're a really bad rider; or b) you were going too fast. I vote for b.

You're kinda missing the point that 'too fast' is almost always dependent on the rider.

What feels crazy-fast to one person and goes beyond their ability to ride within an OODA loop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_Loop) could be a lazy cruising pace to someone else, with all upcoming hazards easily identifiable and able to be compensated for.

My best guess is that bomma was riding too quickly for his own cognitive loop to keep up. That doesn't mean that it was beyond the bounds of physics for his motorcycle to go around the corner safely at that pace.

Personally, I find it comforting to know that, on a bike, I'm the weakest link - I know myself and know when I'm not feeling good, so I can slow down. The bike and the road are known factors. If I screw up, I learn where not to go in future in terms of pushing my processing abilities.

Badjelly
11th February 2008, 13:16
You're kinda missing the point that 'too fast' is almost always dependent on the rider.

True.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that for any given rider the skill level and reaction times are hard to change. If you've crashed because you came around a corner and encountered a stationary obstacle, the *first* thing you should think is "Hmmm maybe I was going too fast". Other thoughts like "Bloody thing shouldn't have been there" and "Need to improve my reactions" should be secondary. By all means analyse your reactions and try to improve them, but in the meantime it might be a good idea to take the blind corners a bit slower. Ride as if there's always a rock on the road around the corner.

On another thread somebody suggested that the rule that you should always be able to stop in the clear distance ahead is unrealistic, and that no-one actually rides that way. Well, I *think* I do (though heaven knows I'm not perfect and perhaps I'm just kidding myself). And if you don't, perhaps you should.

jrandom
11th February 2008, 13:20
By all means analyse your reactions and try to improve them, but in the meantime it might be a good idea to take the blind corners a bit slower. Ride as if there's always a rock on the road around the corner.

Absolutely.

I wasn't implying otherwise; just clarifying that it was indeed a function of rider skill, not absolute physics.

In my view, one should always ride on the road as you describe. The racetrack is the place to push skill levels so that you can go back out on the road and ride faster while maintaining the same safety envelope.

Badjelly
11th February 2008, 13:30
In my view, one should always ride on the road as you describe. The racetrack is the place to push skill levels so that you can go back out on the road and ride faster while maintaining the same safety envelope.

Bugger, we agree, how can we argue? (Mind you, that doesn't stop the people on the countersteering threads.)

SPman
11th February 2008, 13:47
Hit a small rock going up from Kopu on the SP, whilst leant over (had just passed a car). Hit it with both wheels and got the bike airborne whilst performing a lock to lock motion with the bars and , wonder of wonders, plonked down upright just in time for some hard braking for the approaching corner. Definately a brown trouser moment! Fucked both the wheel rims though, so a sedate ride back to Auckland, followed........
Gotta watch those rocks.......

Macstar
11th February 2008, 21:48
That cop needs to be mentioned for a second as I was pretty annoyed at his whole approach and attitude (hope you don't mind bomma). But before I bag him, I guess as a local Coro cop he must see a lot of bikers ripping through his neck of the woods and the 'more than occasional bin'.

Anyway: After collecting the rider's details and bike info and asking "what happened?", cop proceeded to threaten with a careless driving charge i.e. "I may send you a careless driving charge in the mail". When I questioned this threat i.e. "hold on, you didn't witness what occured, how can you charge him for careless driving?", Cop replied, "bikers go through this corner all the time and don't crash, therefore it must have been careless driving". My second challenge to the cop was met with, "keep talking if you want me to book him for something else". At that point I did shut up and proceeded to walk away...

Point is - big difference to the professional and courteous cops you see on Highway Patrol and other filmed NZ cop shows on TV, to that which can be encountered for real.

I guess it all came out in the wash in the end as Bomma said, no charges laid. RANT OVER.

Glad your safe bomma and no worries for the lift home!!

Ragingrob
11th February 2008, 21:55
Still... what a cock! My Dad reckons whatever a cop is saying about anything just ask his badge number and write it down and it'll make them think twice about being little girls wanting to taddle-tale.

HungusMaximist
11th February 2008, 23:09
Anyway: After collecting the rider's details and bike info and asking "what happened?", cop proceeded to threaten with a careless driving charge i.e. "I may send you a careless driving charge in the mail". When I questioned this threat i.e. "hold on, you didn't witness what occured, how can you charge him for careless driving?", Cop replied, "bikers go through this corner all the time and don't crash, therefore it must have been careless driving". My second challenge to the cop was met with, "keep talking if you want me to book him for something else". At that point I did shut up and proceeded to walk away...

Point is - big difference to the professional and courteous cops you see on Highway Patrol and other filmed NZ cop shows on TV, to that which can be encountered for real.

I guess it all came out in the wash in the end as Bomma said, no charges laid. RANT OVER.

Glad your safe bomma and no worries for the lift home!!

Before I start bagging the cop, what I don't understand is on what grounds was Bomma in anyway careless?

I mean ok, he had low sided around a corner involving himself and is that enough to justify a careless driving charge?

It's the logic of the cop that I don't understand. Did he hurt anybody else or was it because the accident held up the traffic or maybe he just pissed off to see another biker crash?

Whatever it was it sounded like cop just wanted to have a go at yah.

People fuck up all the time around corners and being a biker, we shouldn't be singled out for any special treatment. Sure, he might be the head honcho cop of the coro loop and see biker crash here and there, but I don't give a shit, he has no right to go around giving people this sort of crap.

But I am glad you did keep your mouth shut during that time. :done:

Ragingrob
11th February 2008, 23:24
Coro cops are just sad... One summer I got constantly hassled by the one Pauanui cop fat guy in long socks about not wearing a helmet when riding around the roads, footpaths, and even the damn grass... And yes I'm talking pushbike. He threatened to come and tell my parents and I was like um ok then I live thisaway, but all of a sudden he was busy. More like time for an icecream and perve at the bikinis!

Jimmy B
12th February 2008, 08:37
Sad fact of life guys is that if you bin then there is the very real possibility of a careless driving charge :yes:

renegade master
12th February 2008, 09:32
seems like a dickwad cop. But then all cops are dickwads. if it was me, and he checked my record, im pretty sure they'd be a warrent out for me lol.

Badjelly
12th February 2008, 09:50
Before I start bagging the cop, what I don't understand is on what grounds was Bomma in anyway careless?

I mean ok, he had low sided around a corner involving himself and is that enough to justify a careless driving charge?

Huh? He had a crash involving only himself and a stationary obstacle on the road. How is that *not* careless?

Jimmy B
12th February 2008, 10:26
Huh? He had a crash involving only himself and a stationary obstacle on the road. How is that *not* careless?

Thats how the police see it as well. A good friend of one of my riding buddies wrote off his Busa and was pretty banged up. Spent about 6 months rehabilitating.

The police informed him that he would likely be charged with careless driving despite the fact that he had an impecable record and had put about 70,000Ks on the Busa without incident. The problem was compounded by the fact that he had no real recollection of the accident.

Anyway, very long story short they decided not to proceed after an investigation by KB's very own Blackbird who documented and proved reasonable care on the part of the rider who was undone by significant accumulation of loose gravel on the apex of that corner.

In this case the police were reasonable in their decision not to proceed with the prosecution, but it was touch and go for a while.

Upshot is if you bin then it is very possible to be charged. One more reason...

Ragingrob
12th February 2008, 10:28
Huh? He had a crash involving only himself and a stationary obstacle on the road. How is that *not* careless?

So if your tyre pops and you bail it's careless? Cause noone else was involved were they. So for all the people who off when it's wet just because they're learning etc or even the pros, they should get charged with careless driving right?

Yeah I don't think so.

Jimmy B
12th February 2008, 10:39
So if your tyre pops and you bail it's careless? Cause noone else was involved were they. So for all the people who off when it's wet just because they're learning etc or even the pros, they should get charged with careless driving right?

Yeah I don't think so.

If your tyre was bald then yes.

Possible dependant on the circumstances of the off.

Think again mate

Badjelly
12th February 2008, 10:44
So if your tyre pops and you bail it's careless?
That's not what happened here. You can't cope with every eventuality, but you should not drive in such a way what you are unable to avoid a stationary object on the road.

Oh, and I have fallen off motorcycles on a number of occasions, some entirely due to my carelessness, the others only partially.

And I didn't actually say he should be *charged* with careless driving, because if everyone who drove carelessly was charged, then the courts wouldn't have time for anything else. And, as you say, he didn't hurt anyone but himself.

But do I think, on the facts presented here, that Bomma was riding carelessly? Absolutely!

Ragingrob
12th February 2008, 10:45
I'm pretty sure if you bin going round a corner and the bike slips out due to a wet white line or anything then that can't be considering careless driving! In terms of the guy who wrote of his Busa... That gravel would've been pretty stationary and it can't have covered the entire corner...

Ragingrob
12th February 2008, 10:50
That's not what happened here. You can't cope with every eventuality, but you should not drive in such a way what you are unable to avoid a stationary object on the road.

Oh, and I have fallen off motorcycles on a number of occasions, some entirely due to my carelessness, the others only partially.

And I didn't actually say he should be *charged* with careless driving, because if everyone who drove carelessly was charged, then the courts wouldn't have time for anything else. And, as you say, he didn't hurt anyone but himself.

But do I think, on the facts presented here, that Bomma was riding carelessly? Absolutely!

Fair enough, even if it was just that split second choice though... If there's something on the road and you are already leaning decently then sometimes you would think it's safer to try handle the object than to lean more and push yourself with a high chance of low-siding? I don't think he was riding outside his limit which is careless, but I do think he must've been pretty close to it.

Jimmy B
12th February 2008, 10:56
I'm pretty sure if you bin going round a corner and the bike slips out due to a wet white line or anything then that can't be considering careless driving! In terms of the guy who wrote of his Busa... That gravel would've been pretty stationary and it can't have covered the entire corner...

If you hit a white line or other road marking and you bin then its just probably one of those things and no further action woould be taken. However, if there is a question mark over inappropriate speed or other negligent contributing factor then it is very likely that CD would be considered.

Not only the Busa mate, almost him as well.

It did and sprayed quite deep into the corner as well. Virtually invisible and the result of fairly average resealing some weeks prior to the accident. In fact still evident some months after as well. Speed or technique was not a factor here and once the police considered these aspects they chose not to lay charges. As I said it was touch and go for quite a while.

Badjelly
12th February 2008, 11:00
I'm pretty sure if you bin going round a corner and the bike slips out due to a wet white line or anything then that can't be considering careless driving! In terms of the guy who wrote of his Busa... That gravel would've been pretty stationary and it can't have covered the entire corner...

Hmm. There are always borderline cases. With gravel and wet white lines the problem is you often can't see them.

Let's consider a case I'm familiar with. A few decades ago I was riding my 250 through Epsom on Gillies Avenue, turned left onto a side street, travelling at a speed that was faster than usual but still well within the bounds of my bike, I thought. Next thing, with no warning that I noticed, skating on my bum. There was a thin line of petrol around the corner. Bloody emabarassing but no major damage. Was this entirely my fault? Obviously not. Should I have been charged with careless driving? Maybe, but what would it have achieved? Do I go slower through suburban corners these days? F**k yes!

Ragingrob
12th February 2008, 11:11
Hmm. There are always borderline cases. With gravel and wet white lines the problem is you often can't see them.

Let's consider a case I'm familiar with. A few decades ago I was riding my 250 through Epsom on Gillies Avenue, turned left onto a side street, travelling at a speed that was faster than usual but still well within the bounds of my bike, I thought. Next thing, with no warning that I noticed, skating on my bum. There was a thin line of petrol around the corner. Bloody emabarassing but no major damage. Was this entirely my fault? Obviously not. Should I have been charged with careless driving? Maybe, but what would it have achieved? Do I go slower through suburban corners these days? F**k yes!

Yeah there're things out there that "can" be prevented but when they're as unexpected and invisible as that then there's not much one can do which makes things tough! I wonder how far through the corner Bomma actually saw the rock though, depending on size and lighting it could've also been rather invisible until it was pretty much too late. I'm sure that if he'd seen it as soon as it was within site then he would've be able to avoid it.

My gf got dealt a careless driving warning just because some randoms rang up the cops and told them something she didn't even do... They didn't contact her for her story or anything, then sent away the letter of warning, honestly wtf haha apparently some cop did it who'd been on the beat for two weeks. No common sense.

Badjelly
12th February 2008, 11:22
Yeah there're things out there that "can" be prevented but when they're as unexpected and invisible as that then there's not much one can do which makes things tough!

Yes, but my point is that there is one thing you *can* do, which is ride slower. (How much slower is the interesting question.)

And learning to ride better may help too, but that's harder.

Ragingrob
12th February 2008, 11:24
It's a thin line between pushing yourself that tiny bit to improve and learn, and pushing yourself that tiny bit too far... A line that many many people cross and some are unfortunate to end up binning :(

HungusMaximist
12th February 2008, 11:33
At the end of the day, I don't actually think Bomma was riding carelessly, and even if he did, it was pretty much out of his control.

Yep, there were plenty of other tactics he could've used to get him outta that situation but I am no gonna going into that as it's already been said.

Of course, as motorcyclists we try our damm hardest to sense danger beforehand and try to avoid the situation all in all. But you know, like I said, this is life and we're humans after all not robots, shit happens and you can't expect every rider out there to do be careful in every single situation.

If it was a blatant careless riding then let it be. As far as I know (and the feeling in general) and from what I've heard from Jimmy B and Bad jelly, it looks like getting the careless driving charge slapped on you is as easy as 1, 2, 3.

I am not trying to argue who is right and who is wrong here but I want to understand is what validates as careless? Especially in Bomma case I don't think it's as easy as black and white. The impression I am getting is that the line that separates a rider from a careless driving charge and walking away is rather thin and is up to whatever the officer feels like doing.

Finally I''ll add that from the times that I've ridden with Bomma I regard him highly as a competent rider. This is also reflected in his good natured personality, he's not type of person going around looking for trouble.

Jimmy B
12th February 2008, 11:59
If it was a blatant careless riding then let it be. As far as I know (and the feeling in general) and from what I've heard from Jimmy B and Bad jelly, it looks like getting the careless driving charge slapped on you is as easy as 1, 2, 3.

I am not trying to argue who is right and who is wrong here but I want to understand is what validates as careless? .

From the youthlaw website:

"If you drive without reasonable consideration for other people or you fail to drive with the care and attention that a reasonable and sensible driver would exercise in the circumstance you will be driving carelessly. This may relate to excess speed, failing to make the proper signals and observe other road rules. It may also relate to not driving in a way that suits the driving conditions (e.g. weather, road surface, traffic flow, light conditions). Remember this now includes skateboarders, roller skaters and roller bladers".

bomma
12th February 2008, 12:20
man a lot of discussion here lol think i may have hit a nerve.......let me just first say that yes i should have been going slower, in retrospect that would have stopped me from binning.....but i still dont think i was going beyond my skill.....not trying to talk myself up but having put on more than 140000kms in the last 8 months (mostly open riding ks) im pretty well aware of how far my skill level stretches and a pretty good idea of how my bike handles.....not to say that i am all and know all but i have a pretty good idea......

im not the kind of guy who goes around every corner looking to get his knee down....if im not comfortable with something i dont try to silence the "be careful" voice and will take it easy.....in this instance i saw the rock very late, having seen macstar go through the corner i spared no thought to think that we would be taking different lines and assumed that there were no potential hazards in the line I would be taking and thus took the corner faster than i would if there was nobody in front of me.....

and the mistakes that followed from there have been identified in the first post......i can bitch and moan all i want about how the rock shouldn't have been there or how you guys have it wrong and blah blah blah but i wont.....yes a lot of what you guys are saying is right....slower = safer, riding carelessly = maybe depending on interpretation......but at the end of the day mistakes is how you learn.....ie, you have a close call and you learn or in this case i binned but i learnt......to me thats more important to take away from this bin than going over all the things that i may have done wrong or all the things that went wrong......like my boss used to say "Cudda, wudda, shudda.....but didnt"

just my two cents :)

oh and yea i reckon that cops a right wanker......having been notified of an accident the cop came flying up 6kms outta whitianga, away from his box of donuts, to come and see how much shit he could book me for.....this is not something id expect from a considerate human being let alone a fucking cop......probably got let off coz its too early in the month to be worrying about quotas.....

Jimmy B
12th February 2008, 12:38
Hey Bomma,

For my part I was not contributing to any inference that you may have been riding carelessly. If it came across that way then it was not meant to.

My point was to highlight the fact that the police will consider careless driving in any accident and being charged is a distinct possibility if it looks as though the rider did not exhibit reasonable care. And lets face it, in most circumstances riding off the road looks pretty dumb. A CD charge would be the last thing anyone would want especially if the bike is facing expensive repair ie no insurance if the charge is upheld.

I hoped that people would take this on board as another dimension to the fact that binning is to be avoided and the risk can be minimised if the rider gets along sensibly. In this light, should the worst come to pass then they can hopefully put their hand up and say they did everything that was reasonable under the circumstances and that’s one less thing to worry about.

BTW I understand from a reliable source that you are a very capable rider. Glad you’re OK. :yes:

Qkkid
12th February 2008, 13:01
You're kinda missing the point that 'too fast' is almost always dependent on the rider.

What feels crazy-fast to one person and goes beyond their ability to ride within an OODA loop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_Loop) could be a lazy cruising pace to someone else, with all upcoming hazards easily identifiable and able to be compensated for.

My best guess is that bomma was riding too quickly for his own cognitive loop to keep up. That doesn't mean that it was beyond the bounds of physics for his motorcycle to go around the corner safely at that pace.

Personally, I find it comforting to know that, on a bike, I'm the weakest link - I know myself and know when I'm not feeling good, so I can slow down. The bike and the road are known factors. If I screw up, I learn where not to go in future in terms of pushing my processing abilities.

:shutup: Havin a binn can sometimes be the best thing to happen to you, particularly when you get to walk away from it nearly unscathed
:nono:We all should always remember even the great riders binn,and some even die. So thank your lucky stars learn from it. :yes:
Its been 2yrs 1 week for me and i hope i keep it that way

howdamnhard
12th February 2008, 13:12
Yep been there,done that.Hit that pole dead centre:shit:,glad my fullface helmet did its job.If I see a rock or anything I don't want to hit I look away to where I want to go and hopefully don't hit it.Glad your OK Bomma and learned from it.



Sounds suspiciously like very long way of saying target fixation.

Badjelly
12th February 2008, 13:58
Glad your OK Bomma and learned from it.
Yeah, me too.

Macstar
12th February 2008, 14:11
Wow, I didn't realise that a CD charge could jeapordise your insurance payout.

Badjelly
12th February 2008, 14:16
Wow, I didn't realise that a CD charge could jeapordise your insurance payout.
Me neither. That's really kicking you when you're down.

Jimmy B
12th February 2008, 14:51
Wow, I didn't realise that a CD charge could jeapordise your insurance payout.

Gidday mate,

Could vary but in the main yes a claim for damage resulting from CD would likely be refused. I certanly know this is the case for rental cars and is spelled out in the terms and conditions.

bomma
12th February 2008, 15:53
From the youthlaw website:

"If you drive without reasonable consideration for other people or you fail to drive with the care and attention that a reasonable and sensible driver would exercise in the circumstance you will be driving carelessly. This may relate to excess speed, failing to make the proper signals and observe other road rules. It may also relate to not driving in a way that suits the driving conditions (e.g. weather, road surface, traffic flow, light conditions). Remember this now includes skateboarders, roller skaters and roller bladers".

man thats so dumb!!! it sucks that so much of the law is open to interpretation......what is "reasonable"?? and in my case what is excess speed?? the corner wasnt sign posted and the speed limit in the area is 100kph.....but then i wasnt doing anywhere near the speed limit but still managed to go over....and driving conditions?? was a sunny day and the road was mostly clear and well sealed....man wudda sucked if the cop booked me for CD:bash:....im glad Macstar shut up when he did :clap:

Badjelly
12th February 2008, 16:25
It sucks that so much of the law is open to interpretation
And the alternative is?

Chrislost
12th February 2008, 19:04
im not the kind of guy who goes around every corner looking to get his knee down....if im not comfortable with something i dont try to silence the "be careful" voice and will take it easy.....in this instance i saw the rock very late, having seen macstar go through the corner i spared no thought to think that we would be taking different lines and assumed that there were no potential hazards in the line I would be taking and thus took the corner faster than i would if there was nobody in front of me.....


perhaps all you did was make the mistake of watching the bike infront?
Never watch other bikes that are going the same way in you lane, always watch oncoming, and the road as far ahead as ya can see...
let the preferal vision take care of the guys that are with you... or somthing, but dont pay them too much atention unless you _KNOW_ theres nothign on the road thats going to do you over...

or take it to the track! (dam thats expensive tho, group booking anyone??)

bomma
12th February 2008, 20:56
And the alternative is?

unfortunately there isnt one.......just sayin that it sucks......well i guess it means that its open to interpretation both ways so thats always a bonus:msn-wink:

bomma
12th February 2008, 21:05
perhaps all you did was make the mistake of watching the bike infront?
Never watch other bikes that are going the same way in you lane, always watch oncoming, and the road as far ahead as ya can see...
let the preferal vision take care of the guys that are with you... or somthing, but dont pay them too much atention unless you _KNOW_ theres nothign on the road thats going to do you over...

hehe yea nah man i dont usually watch the bike in front other than just noticing what the person is doing.....what i meant was that macstar was in front and i noticed that he made it through without trouble or incident.....


or take it to the track! (dam thats expensive tho, group booking anyone??)


who knows if i get the bike back i might even convert it and stick to the track :wari: i heard the ladies cudnt get enuff of you after you came 3rd in the post classics chris :chase: guess it wasnt just your bike u were riding :buggerd::2thumbsup

Squiggles
13th February 2008, 00:49
i heard the ladies cudnt get enuff of you after you came 3rd in the post classics chris :chase: guess it wasnt just your bike u were riding :buggerd::2thumbsup

Women need male friends who dont want to get into their pants

ital916
13th February 2008, 17:39
Women need male friends who dont want to get into their pants

:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme ......have a tui *jokes*

HungusMaximist
13th February 2008, 18:36
Women like male friends who want to get into their pants

Yep, I agree. :banana:

FJRider
13th February 2008, 19:02
Yep - 'had a choice of two options' and went where he looked.

I second that. You go where you look. The good bit is YOU'RE ALIVE... AND SMARTER if you remember what to do next time. (AND THERE WILL BE A NEXT TIME)

FJRider
13th February 2008, 19:14
The police informed him that he would likely be charged with careless driving despite the fact that he had an impecable record and had put about 70,000Ks on the Busa without incident. The problem was compounded by the fact that he had no real recollection of the accident.



If he has no recollection of the accident, and no one else ADMITS to seeing it happen, it would be difficult to prove in court, that HE alone was at fault.

n0regret5
13th February 2008, 19:25
laugh at my crash!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUtyboh2Pkk
two weeks after buying her..rode away, just hadto shift gears with my hand..d'oh!

HTFU
13th February 2008, 19:49
Good to see a Kiwi Biker Tradition is still going strong.

A guy bins after going a bit quick around a corner, posts a thread about it.

A couple of people post saying hard luck etc.

Then a post stating the fact of the matter is that the rider was going too fast for the conditions such as around a blind corner or in the wet.

Next comes a few posts from his buddies (mostly a Auckland thing) defending his riding and how good he is and posting that all that think he was going to fast are dickheads or similar.

Person that binned comes back with more of the accident, how it was unavoidable and what they have learnt from the experience (unlikely that it is to slow down).

A few more pages of posts arguing about safe riding behaviour and finally a smart ass that has read a few of the posts realises its just the same scenario playing over again and posts this. :dodge:

Bin on a bike = self inflicted incident of pain on a motorbike. More often than not a result of going to fast and therefore reducing a riders ability to identify and then react sufficiently to road obstacles and hazards.

In the interests of road safety most "I binned" posts should really read like this...

I binned today. Lately I have been hitting the corners pretty fast. Quite good fun but today there was... Because I was going quite fast I was unable to... I lowslided/highsided because I was going quite fast and... I have got to slow down on those corners or else I could...Need to do this sort of riding on the track because...and just enjoy riding my bike safely rather than fast. :first:

But as a KB tradition most binners will state anything but, the fact they were going to fast.

Chrislost
13th February 2008, 20:21
wHo The F... are yoU?

Squiggles
13th February 2008, 20:38
yes i should have been going slower, in retrospect that would have stopped me from binning.....



But as a KB tradition most binners will state anything but, the fact they were going to fast.

Thankyou for, in alot of words, saying nothing, and even then nothing was bullshit. The word "most" is the what destroys your post of the absolute definition of this "kb tradition"


lol?

Squiggles
13th February 2008, 20:46
Yep, I agree. :banana:

you would :lol:

carver
13th February 2008, 20:48
most bins wins!

Chrislost
13th February 2008, 20:49
most bins wins!

to you perhaps.
me personally, i think the fastest bin wins.

HungusMaximist
13th February 2008, 21:04
Good to see a Kiwi Biker Tradition is still going strong.

A guy bins after going a bit quick around a corner, posts a thread about it.

A couple of people post saying hard luck etc.

Then a post stating the fact of the matter is that the rider was going too fast for the conditions such as around a blind corner or in the wet.

Next comes a few posts from his buddies (mostly a Auckland thing) defending his riding and how good he is and posting that all that think he was going to fast are dickheads or similar.

Person that binned comes back with more of the accident, how it was unavoidable and what they have learnt from the experience (unlikely that it is to slow down).

A few more pages of posts arguing about safe riding behaviour and finally a smart ass that has read a few of the posts realises its just the same scenario playing over again and posts this. :dodge:

Bin on a bike = self inflicted incident of pain on a motorbike. More often than not a result of going to fast and therefore reducing a riders ability to identify and then react sufficiently to road obstacles and hazards.

In the interests of road safety most "I binned" posts should really read like this...

I binned today. Lately I have been hitting the corners pretty fast. Quite good fun but today there was... Because I was going quite fast I was unable to... I lowslided/highsided because I was going quite fast and... I have got to slow down on those corners or else I could...Need to do this sort of riding on the track because...and just enjoy riding my bike safely rather than fast. :first:

But as a KB tradition most binners will state anything but, the fact they were going to fast.

You got a point there but gee, fanks for making it crystal clear Mr Power Ranger... :lol:

We are humans after all ok?

HTFU
13th February 2008, 21:11
Thankyou for, in alot of words, saying nothing, and even then nothing was bullshit. The word "most" is the what destroys your post of the absolute definition of this "kb tradition"


lol?

Was the response I was expecting. You are a teenager from Auckland who owns a motorbike - prime candidate for someone who needs to slow down.

As for your buddies original post...

"The mistake i made was narrowing my choices down to those two.....in retrospect i should have included a third choice, "Keep looking around the corner and see if she'll go any lower"......

Come on you know what the mistake was...

motorbyclist
13th February 2008, 22:13
Before I start bagging the cop, what I don't understand is on what grounds was Bomma in anyway careless?

I mean ok, he had low sided around a corner involving himself and is that enough to justify a careless driving charge?

It's the logic of the cop that I don't understand. Did he hurt anybody else or was it because the accident held up the traffic or maybe he just pissed off to see another biker crash?

Whatever it was it sounded like cop just wanted to have a go at yah.


maybe he was just trying to further drive home the message that public road is not our personal racetrack, without seriously intending to press charges?

whether or not he hit oncoming traffic has nothing to do with carelessness - failing to avoid a stationary object qualifies as carelessness

atleast the cop wasn't using the term "reckless" or "dangerous" driving. much more serious and much more "going for a knee down hoon outside a school at 3pm" type of charge

and whoever mentioned a tyre popping: that is a mechanical usually out of control of the rider, so provided the tyres weren't bald it's no-ones fault


Was the response I was expecting. You are a teenager from Auckland who owns a motorbike - prime candidate for someone who needs to slow down.

......

Come on you know what the mistake was...

nice stereotype you've got there; jaffas, teens and bikers in one go!

so do you always ride so that you can stop within the visible clear distance ahead? do you travel at or under all signposted corner speeds? even when going for a weekend blat?
never been caught offguard by surprise rocks/gravel/water/debris/diesel/potholes?

Ixion
13th February 2008, 22:18
Bit harsh. In the circumstances as related (I was not there, and do not know the gentleman), even a somewhat reduced speed would probably not have saved the day.

Shit happens , sometimes. Mr Bomma would probably have been fine , if he hadn't suddenly noticed the rock. Would have just thought "Oh, rock, better take a line to avoid it, and away we go". But seeing it suddenly, brought on "Oh shit wodda I DO , wodda I DO , got choices , which which, OH SHIT".

Doubt there's a rider here who's been riding a few years that hasn't had the "Oh, nearly clipped that rock|pot hole| dead possum|oil patch| etc. Lucky I missed it" . Sometimes, y' don't miss it.

ital916
13th February 2008, 23:02
Was the response I was expecting. You are a teenager from Auckland who owns a motorbike - prime candidate for someone who needs to slow down.

As for your buddies original post...

"The mistake i made was narrowing my choices down to those two.....in retrospect i should have included a third choice, "Keep looking around the corner and see if she'll go any lower"......

Come on you know what the mistake was...

OI! :nono::nono::nono:, squiggles happens to be a very responsible motorcyclist. As a noob he took me and other noobs out for rides where he advocated not speeding and riding at a safe speed. To wear all the gear all the time. Squiggles also burned it into my head to make sure my bike was in good nick before every ride. Just because someone is a teenager with a bike doesn't mean they speed. Yes bomma fucked up, i'm not defending his descisions or the idea that he wasn't in thw wrong for the crash. But adding bullshit like what you wrote doesn't add anything. How many posts do you see bout squiggles bad riding...non. There's my rant. Maybe you should HTFU lol.

HTFU
13th February 2008, 23:23
so do you always ride so that you can stop within the visible clear distance ahead? do you travel at or under all signposted corner speeds? even when going for a weekend blat?
never been caught offguard by surprise rocks/gravel/water/debris/diesel/potholes?

I always ride so I can stop within the visible clear distance ahead. Fucking crazy not too.

As for corner speeds - if you are doing the above when you ride, then the corner speed posted by Transit is irrelevant, although a corner sign helps me to identify a hazard which is the approaching corner that Transit deems worthy of a sign.

Riding too fast and speeding are two different things just as I see binning and an accident as two different things on a bike. Doing 120km/hr on a straight bit of road with no identifying hazards is of course speeding and no doubt still a risk and increases the chances of serious injury in the case of a crash. Taking that speed into a 50km/hr corner you cannot see through is riding too fast. IMHO

I don't drive my car or my truck like I am on a closed circuit track and just because I am on a bike I don't have the attitude that I need to ride fast. In fact its the opposite. Of all the modes of transport I take my motorbike would be the one I respect the most because of the bin factor associated with cornering too fast and not seeing things lying on the road.

Its hard for a few of you to understand because you get on a bike and there is no other way for you to ride it but too fast. All you can do is justify your fast riding pace and how everyone bins bla bla bla.

My first 25000km of riding was on a low powered GN exploring the West Coast of the Waikato. Hazards every couple of Kms on some of the roads and thats no exaggeration. In the space of 5kms out of Marokopa I encountered an Emu on one corner, followed by sheep, a pukeko which flew out from the side, a pig and a heap of rocks near the quarry, all of which I had to avoid. But wicked riding and none of it was to quick that I couldn't avoid the hazards. A few thousand Ks on gravel also helps you to have a healthy respect for the bike.

Just spent last month commuting back from the top of the Coromandel to Hamilton, gravel, stones, shit roads, animals, cars, you name it I was prepared for it. Met a lot of bikers doing the Coro Loop. Can see why so many bin, only thing on a lot of the speedsters minds was making the corner like someone on the track, probably little attention to what's around the corner based on the speed they hitting them.

Thing I get out of these threads is the reality check that should have occurred doesn't, because the majority that post it up, can't accept that the speed into the corner was the mistake. They are looking for their riding buddies to help out with some posts of support, whom of course have to because they are all riding the same way - too bloody fast. IMHO

Squiggles
14th February 2008, 00:06
I always ride so I can stop within the visible clear distance ahead. Fucking crazy not too.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1413572&postcount=5


Its hard for a few of you to understand because you get on a bike and there is no other way for you to ride it but too fast. All you can do is justify your fast riding pace and how everyone bins bla bla bla.

Please stop with the stereotyping! I own a tl1000, yes its a big bike, but that does not mean i ride it fast at all, or bin it. I see the words "few" and "most" are creeping in again, i must be an exception to this broad generalisation of youths/sportsbike riders/riders in general.



My first 25000km of riding was on a low powered GN exploring the West Coast of the Waikato. Hazards every couple of Kms on some of the roads and thats no exaggeration. In the space of 5kms out of Marokopa I encountered an Emu on one corner, followed by sheep, a pukeko which flew out from the side, a pig and a heap of rocks near the quarry, all of which I had to avoid. But wicked riding and none of it was to quick that I couldn't avoid the hazards. A few thousand Ks on gravel also helps you to have a healthy respect for the bike.

the point of this seems to be power and respect for the bike, and the suggestion is that we have too much power and not enough respect? clarification please


Thing I get out of these threads is the reality check that should have occurred doesn't, because the majority that post it up, can't accept that the speed into the corner was the mistake. They are looking for their riding buddies to help out with some posts of support, whom of course have to because they are all riding the same way - too bloody fast. IMHO

Are you sure? We're not a forum club like club 250, we just have a forum here, and what is posted does not necessarily reflect any support/condemnation for anybodys actions. For example, EJ has been given much shit for his knee down antics, but i dont think i've even posted in a thread with it in. On the other hand we have this thread (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=65269), take a look at how much acceptance & support there is for what happened there.


At the end of the day, Nish came off his bike while cornering. I'm sure there is an endless number of things that could have been done differently to prevent him falling off, and like ixion said, shear speed may not have been one of them. I am glad Nish has come away unscathed, and hope he will work out exactly what was going through his head when he took that corner, then force himself to take a different action should the situation arise again. I believe he will do this, having known him for a while now.
Meet us before you judge us, rather than doing the easy and tossing us in the skidmark basket :)

p.s. the first quote is just to point out that nobody is perfect, and while your posts alludes to you being so, that post contradicts it. "....so he can laugh at me when i do" is a worrying way to look at binning, but i think that was just a slip of the tongue in text ;)

bomma
14th February 2008, 13:38
I always ride so I can stop within the visible clear distance ahead. Fucking crazy not too.

As for corner speeds - if you are doing the above when you ride, then the corner speed posted by Transit is irrelevant, although a corner sign helps me to identify a hazard which is the approaching corner that Transit deems worthy of a sign.

Riding too fast and speeding are two different things just as I see binning and an accident as two different things on a bike. Doing 120km/hr on a straight bit of road with no identifying hazards is of course speeding and no doubt still a risk and increases the chances of serious injury in the case of a crash. Taking that speed into a 50km/hr corner you cannot see through is riding too fast. IMHO

I don't drive my car or my truck like I am on a closed circuit track and just because I am on a bike I don't have the attitude that I need to ride fast. In fact its the opposite. Of all the modes of transport I take my motorbike would be the one I respect the most because of the bin factor associated with cornering too fast and not seeing things lying on the road.

Its hard for a few of you to understand because you get on a bike and there is no other way for you to ride it but too fast. All you can do is justify your fast riding pace and how everyone bins bla bla bla.

My first 25000km of riding was on a low powered GN exploring the West Coast of the Waikato. Hazards every couple of Kms on some of the roads and thats no exaggeration. In the space of 5kms out of Marokopa I encountered an Emu on one corner, followed by sheep, a pukeko which flew out from the side, a pig and a heap of rocks near the quarry, all of which I had to avoid. But wicked riding and none of it was to quick that I couldn't avoid the hazards. A few thousand Ks on gravel also helps you to have a healthy respect for the bike.

Just spent last month commuting back from the top of the Coromandel to Hamilton, gravel, stones, shit roads, animals, cars, you name it I was prepared for it. Met a lot of bikers doing the Coro Loop. Can see why so many bin, only thing on a lot of the speedsters minds was making the corner like someone on the track, probably little attention to what's around the corner based on the speed they hitting them.

Thing I get out of these threads is the reality check that should have occurred doesn't, because the majority that post it up, can't accept that the speed into the corner was the mistake. They are looking for their riding buddies to help out with some posts of support, whom of course have to because they are all riding the same way - too bloody fast. IMHO

lol funny thing is that people like yourself are so caught up being self-righteous they wont ever be moved from their stance.....i doubt you'll give up your random ranting till i RE-admit something that ive already agreed to....as said by myself earlier, and quoted by squiggles, it is obvious that speed was a factor and that if i had been going slower this bin may have been avoidable....

there are somethings about your argument that i dont agree with however.....

1) as said by drider squiggles is a very responsible rider (support about the riders skill from his mates:niceone:) i dont expect someone like you to understand that there are such things as RESPONSIBLE teens....i know its crazy, sounds about as real as santa clause and the toothfairy, but they ACTUALLY exist!!! :eek5:

2) i dont need you to tell me that bins are avoidable and that they are usually the cause of rider error.....ummm have you read the first post??

3) "blah blah blah saying the accident was unavoidable blah blah blah" - again i refer you to the first post.....

4) your reference to road hazards is quite right, there are a lot of road hazards to be encountered on new zealand roads out on the open road and caution should be taken.....im sure ive posted this before but if im not comfortable with anything ill take it easy....its just the way i am.....

but at the end of the day, i have nothing to prove to you nor anyone else....i binned, i know i fucked up, im immeasurably grateful that i have come away as lightly as i have and having identified what i did wrong i am better for it. i thank you for your post and your strong belief that speed is in fact the only factor that is the cause of "most" bins. I know that our views clash on this matter but it is a matter of perception. I congratulate you on your immense riding capacity, patience and hazard identification skills. Keep safe and ride well. :rockon:

HTFU
14th February 2008, 20:02
Keep safe and ride well. :rockon:


I hear ya my fast riding motorcycling brudda from unudda mudda and fudda. :Punk: See if on your next ride you can ride to survive, rather than suicide, you might surprise yourself and still enjoy it without the pushing it.

Out. :done:

carver
14th February 2008, 20:03
to you perhaps.
me personally, i think the fastest bin wins.

nice, almost lost it at 230k in the wet once!
shoulda tried harder.
id bling ya if i wasn't so infractioned

Chrislost
14th February 2008, 20:22
almost just dosn't cut it...
see i once almost scored with my teacher, but then i realised that she had said fuck off, not fuck yea...

HTFU
14th February 2008, 20:26
nice, almost lost it at 230k in the wet once!
shoulda tried harder.
id bling ya if i wasn't so infractioned

The legend returns. :rolleyes:

Phurrball
15th February 2008, 19:49
(snip) See if on your next ride you can ride to survive, rather than suicide, you might surprise yourself and still enjoy it without the pushing it.

Out. :done:


You seem to be inferring a whole lot about a person's riding from a woefully incomplete picture comprising a few hundred words (at most) on an internet forum and no IRL experiences as others have already pointed out.

Some of us in the AUSMC aren't in our teens. I for one am an the cusp of your own wise old age - and I respect the experience and skills of some of the younger fullas because I know them and have ridden with them.

Some of the club many years my junior have riding skills that would put me to shame, and im not that much of a n00b, with 3 years, a full licence and 20000KM under my belt.

There's some suprisingly wise heads on young shoulders in the club (not all, mind you;)) If they were a pack of loons, I wouldn't be riding with them. I've seen *far* scarier antics on the ATNR from folks with a quite a few years more experience than most of the AUSMC.

As always, feel free to comment, but take care when you extrapolate from incomplete data lest others draw similarly incomplete conclusions from your prose.

HTFU
15th February 2008, 21:29
You seem to be inferring a whole lot about a person's riding from a woefully incomplete picture comprising a few hundred words (at most) on an internet forum and no IRL experiences as others have already pointed out.



Ridden the coro loop with some of them in a 250 ride. Read quite the number of threads of bins by them. Just had some really positive PM messages with a few of them over this thread. But as you were <_< hanging out with the young people :laugh: Bloody adult students.

Macstar
15th February 2008, 22:09
Ridden the coro loop with some of them in a 250 ride. Read quite the number of threads of bins by them. Just had some really positive PM messages with a few of them over this thread. But as you were <_< hanging out with the young people :laugh: Bloody adult students.

Yeah, there's a few munters, a majority of normal - but learning riders, and several experienced and mature riders. The club has a lot of non-affiliated 'friends' that often come on rides as well - and have their share of bins... Not fair to lump them all together but I will agree that crash rates are a concern (of mine anyway), and a few initiatives were launched at the end of last year to combat this. Unfortunately, I graduated last year and don't have the time now to organise the mentor rides and the RRRS programme - though I believe there's plans for this once uni starts again in a few weeks.

You commented on how cliche the report of the binning process is earlier HTFU - well I'm sorry to say, but the cliche 'slap in the face' response has also been made in the past too. I understand the frustration though when I/we read of repeated bins. My approach has been to try and do something about it though rather than exchanging insults.

If you are an experienced and competent rider maybe you can offer your time to take some of the learners for a cruise sometime (or since you're in the Waikato, meet them on the loop?).

I dunno about you, but if I ever hear of a serious injury/death from a bin of someone I know (touch wood big time), I'd rather be able to say that I had tried to pass on some skills to that person, than a spiteful post saying "I told you that guy would wind up as he has..."

In other words, redirect your frustration to something useful!

Macstar
15th February 2008, 22:14
BTW: that message isn't just for HTFU - it's for any biker that genuinely wants to help other bikers.

HTFU
15th February 2008, 23:15
I'd rather be able to say that I had tried to pass on some skills to that person, than a spiteful post saying "I told you that guy would wind up as he has..."

In other words, redirect your frustration to something useful!

All good.

Just this bit here - my take is I use KB for various reasons, entertainment, information, pass a bit of time etc.

So no spite in what I spit (type) on here, but I am focused more on the posting of the binning and the way that the group of riders associated with the bin tend to shy away from the cold hard facts that they are doing risky stuff. Generally I won't be riding with them to give my advice so best I can do is create a bit of debate on here about the whole post it up buzz and pat ourselves on the back responses on how lucky..., how its a surprise he binned because he is such a good rider etc etc, when I and others know most of the time why the bin really happened.

Its typical of our PC culture, no one wants to really say what they think about it and I believe this all adds to the same mistakes being made over and over. New bunch of riders joins the group each year and bingo something to prove and "hey look a safe, friendly public forum, just the ticket to show everyone how good we are getting at this throw a motorbike around a corner thing".

It was the same with the knee down craze a few of young Aucklanders went through a while back. The few posts saying cut the crap got flammed and then when it went to shit, the binner and friends defended their riding habits to the death (so to speak).

I have never said I told you they would bin but have had someone post they will laugh when I crash (sad sad mental person, you know who you are - HTFU). Don't wish that on anyone, even if I can see it coming a mile away.

In one of my line of work I spend a good deal of my time keeping miss guided youth from going off the rails completely. Little bit of me on here doing the same. Some might see it as a bit of shit stirring (often it is :whistle:) but hey every time one of these guys has to justify what they are doing to me, then at the very least they have thought a bit about their riding and maybe their mates as well.

Beddy byes for little guys :zzzz:

Squiggles
16th February 2008, 00:34
I graduated last year and don't have the time now to organise the mentor rides and the RRRS programme - though I believe there's plans for this once uni starts again in a few weeks.

Club is booked in for may (earliest we could get for a large group) but we can get a few in in march and april if necessary :yes: :rockon:

Chrislost
16th February 2008, 19:56
stink, the link didnt work

see you fuckers at paeroa tomorrow

Squiggles
17th February 2008, 20:12
stink, the link didnt work

see you fuckers at paeroa tomorrow

saw you ya fuck, during the prac session, opposite and down a bit, couldnt miss ya gimp face :clap: :lol: