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HungusMaximist
7th June 2008, 13:00
This morning while riding to work at around ten past eight I lost my rear wheel BIG time at the Orakei Rd, Shore Rd and Upland Rd roundabout while going straight through (no turning involved) as I was heading up to the Greenlane roundabout. One of the things first things I noticed when I went out on the bike was that the road was still relatively wet so I said, 'take it easy boy'.

I was on the inside lane of the roundabout and I must've been in either first or powering on to second when my rear lost it competely and farkk it was weird because I was going straight through. At that moment I was out of the roundabout and the rear gone absolutely nuts :eek5:, thinking never before have I ever experienced such masive fish tailing (big enough that I recieved a bruise my on lower left inside knee from the bike's frame smashing into me).

So the front also goes a little nutty and I grab the handle bars tightly for life, off the throttle I come and pump the front brakes gently a few times and manage to save the bike from disaster. I don't think I touched the rear brakes at all but everything happened so fucken fast I didn't really know what to make of it.

After that I was shitting my pants but couldn't really stop to recollect as I got to get to work by 8.30 so I solidered on but a little shaken :sweatdrop. Funny thing was, there was a car 10 meters behind me which saw the whole thing unfold, probably thinking how the fark did he manage to save himself? I wonder that too...


While on the motorway I managed to collect my thoughs and enlightened myself:

*There was a nice patch of godforsaken oil in the middle of the roundabout and due to the lighting conditions and dampness of the road (everywhere) I just didn't see it

*I powered the blade a bit too much and I should've gently rolled it through

*Always expect oil spills in roundabouts, be more vigilant next time

This is a lesson for all your yahs with roundabouts and Dushy can fully relate to this :wari:

FROSTY
7th June 2008, 13:07
yup death juice (diesel) and rain--not a nice combination

Disco Dan
7th June 2008, 13:10
Glad you saved it.. does not always work out that way...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=932184&postcount=1

jrandom
7th June 2008, 13:28
Yup, diesel's a motherfucker, count yourself lucky you didn't hit it while leaned over or while applying the front brake.

I'd love to hear from someone who's ridden out a diesel encounter after actually noticing the shit on the road before they hit it.

Yes, I know that there are those who claim to be able to sniff it at a hundred paces, etc, etc, but I wonder whether anyone has actually detected it, modified their riding, and therefore avoided a bin, or whether the only stories of crossing diesel without falling off are like HM's, here - flukes due to hitting the diesel while upright and brake/throttle neutral.

HungusMaximist
7th June 2008, 13:38
Yep, I also love to hear about people's experience in riding out a fish tailing bike. Like what to do when you lose your rear wheel/front wheel big time (pray?).

I am glad it was just riding straight through the roundabout, if I was leaned over that'd be another story.

Ixion
7th June 2008, 13:41
I've ridden across diesel after noticing it (too late to go round it). Might have been oil, I don't know how to tell the difference other than smell.

Notice diesel/oil, change course to cross it across as short a distance as possible (ride ACROSS not ALONG it). Throttle off (just enough that you are neither accelerating nor decelerating). No brake, and expect things to get hairy. Loose hands on the bars, stay upright (even if that means riding straight into the gutter) , keep off the brakes, and keep your weight back.

Don't try to fight the slides let the bike sort itself out.

Now diesel on an off camber downhill right hander - that might be too much for anyone.


Edit: If you do encounter slippery stuff on a roundabout hile elaned over, straighten up and do as above, even if it means going down an exit you didn't intend to take. You can alwasy turn round and come back, hardere to do if you are scattered over the road. Oh, and SLOW DOWN at roundabouts they are not the place to show off Rossi-skillz.

skidMark
7th June 2008, 13:49
done it myself turning at a set of light at very low speed...low revs slight accelrating through...

WTF i'm sliding on my arse...

xwhatsit
7th June 2008, 13:50
Now diesel on an off camber downhill right hander - that might be too much for anyone.
Haha, if you approach the roundabout in question from Orakei Rd, it is indeed preceeded by an off camber downhill right hander :) However the only time I've seen diesel there (used to ride that road almost every day for a year) was on the other side of the road, the uphill side.

That roundabout is often coated in nasty slippery stuff, especially in winter. What's worse is that the sort of speed you want to take it (if going around it, not straight through) is right between 1st and 2nd gear. In addition, the suburb is full of dozy old valium-soaked rich bints in Bimmers and Audis, who quite frequently seem surprised to see a motorcycle heading for their drivers door on a roundabout. Stopping in an elegant manner in that situation without locking either end requires skill and subtlety I do not possess.

jrandom
7th June 2008, 13:52
Like what to do when you lose your rear wheel/front wheel big time (pray?).

Rear wheel, just stay off the brakes and steady on the gas and look where you want to go, the bike will sort itself out.

Front wheel, better hope you have an insurance policy paid up to date and a sympathetic mate with a trailer.

:niceone:

Squiggles
7th June 2008, 14:05
Front wheel, better hope you have an insurance policy paid up to date and a sympathetic mate with a trailer.

nah, leg out and motard that shit, have done it on the tl when the front went out on gravel, and the same for a scooter on diesel :eek:

*note the above is probably not the recommended method, and i wont be held responsible if you fall off anyway doing the splits *:eek:

Chrislost
7th June 2008, 16:47
So the front also goes a little nutty and I grab the handle bars tightly for life, off the throttle I come and pump the front brakes gently a few times and manage to save the bike from disaster. I don't think I touched the rear brakes at all but everything happened so fucken fast I didn't really know what to make of it.



:wari:

DONT do that, jsut relax, if you are tense what the front is doing affects the rear a hell of a lot more,

Were you trying to highside yourself???? at least the back wasnt too far gone and you didnt bail big time!

Huh? you know this puts weight on the front wheel etc etc etc sliiiide bouf?


Congratulations on staying on though, It is a little exiting when fun stuff like this happens to you unexpectedly!:Punk:

jrandom
7th June 2008, 16:52
nah, leg out and motard that shit, have done it on the tl when the front went out on gravel, and the same for a scooter on diesel :eek:

TL on gravel? No problem. Scooter on diesel? No problem. GSX1400 on diesel? Broken leg, and you still crash.

EJK
7th June 2008, 18:10
Thats was a close one Ewan lol Congratulations on saving the rear slide!

So, rear skidding (locked rear etc) is possibly saveable right? But is there a possible way to save a locked front wheel?

scracha
7th June 2008, 18:41
So, rear skidding (locked rear etc) is possibly saveable right? But is there a possible way to save a locked front wheel?

Yeah, come of the front brake and muscle the bastard into pointing roughly straight.

Cr1MiNaL
7th June 2008, 19:08
Good save man. Next time buy an R6, if you start to feel like its going to give don't do anything. take ur hands off the bars and hug the tank with both hands instead. She'll sort ya out herself :love:

Chrislost
7th June 2008, 19:15
So, rear skidding (locked rear etc) is possibly saveable right? But is there a possible way to save a locked front wheel?

only up to the point where you lie down and smile for the camera

HungusMaximist
7th June 2008, 19:42
[COLOR="red"]Were you trying to highside yourself???? at least the back wasnt too far gone and you didnt bail big time!

Huh? you know this puts weight on the front wheel etc etc etc sliiiide bouf?


Congratulations on staying on though, It is a little exiting when fun stuff like this happens to you unexpectedly!:Punk:

Thanks for the pointers but I don't really get ya when you mentioned highsiding?

I hardly touched the front brakes but I did rememeber apply a bit of brakes as it was the natural instinctive thing to do.

But yep, I hardly did anything apart from holding on to the bike for dear life and bit of front brakes, and everything sorted itself out.

I was kinda glad I didn't panic but 'oh shit wtf is going on' went through my head. At first I thought this is some what like a tank slapper feels like.

Chrislost
7th June 2008, 20:07
ahhah, highside...


hmmmmm
pictures
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eResxp7jALs

or for a video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bhykTfysKas&watch_response

CB ARGH
7th June 2008, 20:31
God roundabouts must suck in the wet weather, especially after it hasn't rained for a few weeks... yowch.:cold:

Squiggles
7th June 2008, 22:43
The highside bit goes something like this... (bah my explanation sucked)

better explanation here: http://www.msgroup.org/tip.aspx?num=001

ouchies vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry56aD3gmHw&feature=related

motorbyclist
8th June 2008, 02:59
I'd love to hear from someone who's ridden out a diesel encounter after actually noticing the shit on the road before they hit it.

if anyone's hit the universal drive/don buck rd/swanson rd intersection then they know what i mean by a "blind" roundabout thanks to the trees etc put in the middle.

half way around one morning doing my best rossi impression (fucked if a car pulls out cause there's no way i'm stopping, i'd just have to keep turning) i see a nice rainbow nicely fucking up my line - get the bike upright and kinda point it at an exit, ease of the gas to a neutral speed, don't dare touch the brake and cruise across/along it without incident, and nicely avoided a curb by about 3mm:woohoo:


old man had a similar incident - found a wet patch on an otherwise dry road... rear tyre going squiggly soon indicated that it was diesel

my dirt riding experiences with ridiculously muddy races/rides are pretty much the same... even had one sad race where i ended up, after several 180's and a few 360's trying to make a hill start after coming off a downhill off camber turn at the end of a straight, made of cross-rutted clay with a slimy coating ontop, simply walking up the hill to the finish line with my bike in 2nd gear next to me throwing mud everywhere... decided it was time to get some new knobblies after that; the "rounded bumps and right hand rear knobs missing entirely" approach to traction just wasn't cutting it anymore<_<

moral of the story: MOAR POWER doesn't help when you've lost traction, and nor does the brake. keep forces on your tyres to a minimum and you'll be sweet - no braking, no cornering, no gas.

motorbyclist
8th June 2008, 03:04
The highside bit goes something like this... (bah my explanation sucked)

yeah and that other one was too wordy

bike gets sideways, tyre is skidding

skidding tyre has less traction than rolling tyre

hit brake (or cut gas) to gain traction means tyre stops skidding

so now tyre has sudden traction in direction of movement, which just so happens to be sideways relative to the bike.

what happens when you push a bike sideways? falls over

so when it regains traction the bike flips over, catapults you off, and then either lands on you or follows you down the road to later squish you

so don't touch! accelerate makes the wheel go more sideways, brakes are effectively kicking your bike over.

Nagash
8th June 2008, 08:30
I had one incident where I rode through diesel and only noticed I had when i was over it, took it easy, went round a couple of corners and no problems, and then I was at my destination! Pleased as hell I applied the brakes in normal fashion to discover that I was on the ground...

I've got really used to the rear sliding out now, even so much as to recover a cruiser fish tailing to the right at 90 degrees of it's original position. That was shit scary, but I felt bloody invincible after wards. And then rpoceeded to slow down..

Macstar
8th June 2008, 08:57
Buy a motard and get used to the rear squigglying all over the place - then when you're on your heavy sports bike hopefully if you get a bit of sideways action you won't do something silly like cut the throttle.

I've powered my way through a few potential high sides (and stuffed one up) but its bloody hard to keep the throttle on when you feel it go. Dunno about diesel on a bike. It was great for car tyres and burnouts!!

HungusMaximist
8th June 2008, 10:51
The highside bit goes something like this... (bah my explanation sucked)


Thanks I know what a highside is but what I didn't get was Chris's explaination in relation to my experience yesterday. Should I or shouldn't I used the front brakes?



moral of the story: MOAR POWER doesn't help when you've lost traction, and nor does the brake. keep forces on your tyres to a minimum and you'll be sweet - no braking, no cornering, no gas.

OK is that the thing to do?



Buy a motard and get used to the rear squigglying all over the place - then when you're on your heavy sports bike hopefully if you get a bit of sideways action you won't do something silly like cut the throttle.


So you're saying no throttle?

So what exactly is the right thing to do?

motorbyclist
8th June 2008, 12:51
the exact thing to do is to not do anything

what i meant was no MORE gas

just keep everything cruising without changing speed, so keep throttle where it is unless there's a good reason not to

front brake is no good - your rear wheels is speeding up and going sideways because ts now tavellng faster than your front - so front brake is only going to make things worse.

also, locking your front doesn't help. on diesel it isn't hard to lock up.

Ixion
8th June 2008, 13:09
I concur. I have long worked (with success , in so far as that is measured by lack of crashes) on the principle that when it turns to shit whatever you try to do will probably make things worse. So best to do as little as possible , keep everything steady -if braking keep braking, if accelerating keep accelerating etc, but everything as gentle as possible. Pray to the Biker Gods and hope that the bike's designers knew their stuff.

Obviously sometimes there are situations where one HAS to do something. It's all down to experience and judgement . And luck. Lots of luck.

Macstar
8th June 2008, 13:45
So what exactly is the right thing to do?


Ask one hundred people, get one hundred answers... I keep the gas on if the rear starts to go on me through a corner, buttoning off could cause it to grip and eject you highside styles.

Mate, reality is, you aint got time to think about this sort of shit - that's when the auto pilot / reflexes kick in and hopefully 2 seconds later when your brain catches up, you go "Whooooo hoooo, hell yeah, I made it!".

But again, a Motard is awesome for pushing the limits and making mistakes on. Drop the bike, pick it up and try again. $10 track day fees at Mt Wellington. I WILL GET ANOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

motorbyclist
8th June 2008, 14:15
bah, do it properly and get a dirt bike

Squiggles
8th June 2008, 18:46
Drop the bike, pick it up and try again. $10 track day fees at Mt Wellington.
Then a $1500 rebuild two laps later :eek::lol:


bah, do it properly and get a dirt bike

hell yeah, the dr's only a wee bike but its a helluva lot of fun :D

shingo
8th June 2008, 18:58
hell yeah, the dr's only a wee bike but its a helluva lot of fun :D

Does mean 180's too.. :whistle:

NOMIS
8th June 2008, 19:01
one thing as bad as diesel that most people usually thing is diesel is stock effluent.. Wanker truckies switch on the taps thru corners to dump off all the shit and piss from cattle on the back of the trucks.. looks like diesel and almost as bad.

Ryan432
8th June 2008, 19:10
bah, do it properly and get a dirt bike

I 100% agree!! best way to know what happens when the bike is doing crazy shit is to ride a dirt bike for awile, also it makes all the reactions that you need to get out of the situation second nature, which is good because when it happens on the road you don't have time to think "hmmm maybe I should to this..." its just has to happen.

when its raining it pays to look out for black paint that has been used to paint over white lines that are no longer in use, a while ago i wound up on the wrong side of those orange barriers going up onewa road after hitting a patch of that stuff, lucky ther wern't any cars coming the other way!!

bomma
8th June 2008, 23:17
glad you're upright and that your beautiful machine is without damage mate :niceone: havnt seen you and your lycra at the chiller in a while bro make an appearance this friday aye

motorbyclist
8th June 2008, 23:53
I 100% agree!! best way to know what happens when the bike is doing crazy shit is to ride a dirt bike for awile, also it makes all the reactions that you need to get out of the situation second nature, which is good because when it happens on the road you don't have time to think "hmmm maybe I should to this..." its just has to happen.


i reckon that's all that's kept me from having a proper crash so far!

even the wee off last year would've been nasty had i not been able to dodge that power pole or had woken up a moment later