Clutchless gear shifting

[YellowDog]

I read this article some time ago:

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/0704_sprp_riding_skills_series/index.html

And have been occasionally changing up and down ever since.

I have been advised that, provided it isn't abused, modern gearboxes can cope with clutchless changing and it won't cause any problems or damage.

I am quite careful and cautions with engine speeds however I was wondering if any KBers had extensive experience or were aware of any problems associated with clutchless gear changing?

[NOMIS]

I dont often use the clutch, i do it with out realising tho. so it not like I do it on purpose just dont feel the need majority of the time.

[YellowDog]

It is very good if you have a pillion and you want a smooth non-helmet banging trip.

I heard that manufacturers won't endorse the technique as it would considerably reduce their sale of clutch plates.

My fear is that it could considerably increase demand for gearbox parts.

[slofox]

No problem. When the SV is under full acceleration and I am too shit scared to take my hand off the grip to use the clutch, :blink: I just kick 'er up without. Back in the olden days, when I used to race, everybody did it on the track all the time...just be positive - boot it through.

[johan]

I do it all the time when I'm at the track. I'll let you know when my gearbox fails.

I've setup my bike with reverse shifting, this makes clutchless shifting even more effortless.

You can also buy quickshifter kits that will cut the ignition when you press the shift lever so you don't have to let go of the gas. I'm keen to try this as well.

[Subike]

Is there any other way to do it? :bleh:

Been doing it since the day I first started riding.....
Was taught by my Grand Dad, Dad, Mum and Uncles to do this.
They said the clutch was only any use for getting moving off the line.

For those who have never driven a crash gearbox truck, if you used the clutch all the time, you needed VERY strong legs.Sycomesh boxes are a relitivley modern development.Who remembers early GM & Ford 3 speeds, let alone the triumph heralds and morris minors grinding 1st gear!!

Now my oldies use to do it on AJS's, BSA's, Matchless 500's and "pre war" belt drive Harleys. I think that the modern bikes gearbox is far stronger than those old rides ever were.
I still forget to use the clutch sometimes in my present cage....no problems at all.
Just another one of those skills experianced riders/drivers learn.
:niceone:

[scracha]

It is very good if you have a pillion and you want a smooth non-helmet banging trip.

I heard that manufacturers won't endorse the technique as it would considerably reduce their sale of clutch plates.

My fear is that it could considerably increase demand for gearbox parts.

I only do it on upshifts as the clutch is my rear brake.

To stop pillions headbutting you, roll off the gas gently before shifting up. You can get on the gas as hard as you like once it's clicked into gear,

[YellowDog]

I only do it on upshifts as the clutch is my rear brake.

To stop pillions headbutting you, roll off the gas gently before shifting up. You can get on the gas as hard as you like once it's clicked into gear,
Great advice.

I was referring to hypothetical helmet banging though. I was trying to emphasise the point that you generally get a quicker and smoother gear change without a clutch.

[scracha]

Great advice.

I was referring to hypothetical helmet banging though. I was trying to emphasise the point that you generally get a quicker and smoother gear change without a clutch.
Umm...don't generally do it outside the racetrack myself. Even then none of my bikes will downshift easily without the clutch. Feels very harsh when doing clutchless upshifts in the first 3 gears (unless you're caning it).

[CB ARGH]

I used to do this on my old dirt bike... only when I was in such a position that the clutch was out of reach. No way would I recommend it though, the clutch is there for a reason, use it.

Subike: I find it hard to believe that you can do a clutchless gear change in a cage. Your gearbox must be stuffed man.

[MSTRS]

When changing gear, all the clutch does is 'unload' the gears. Judicious use of the throttle achieves the same thing...blip off to change up, and blip on to change down.

[sinfull]

Subike: I find it hard to believe that you can do a clutchless gear change in a cage. Your gearbox must be stuffed man.

Try it man, it works !
Just hold the gear stick over the gear ya want it in and take ya foot off the gas when going up and a tap on the gas, then hold the pressure on when going down !
Works a treat even with an 18 speed road ranger gearbox in later model trucks ! Most all gearboxes will let ya in !

[fridayflash]

my first bike was an AC50 maverick with no clutch cable or lever,
i learned to ride on that devil and have been ignoring clutches
ever since hehe

[CHOPPA]

not a great idea on down shifting

[Subike]

Subike: I find it hard to believe that you can do a clutchless gear change in a cage. Your gearbox must be stuffed man.

Every manual vehicle I have ever owned I have been able to do this to.
As I said, it is a learned skill.
clutchless gear changes have been done since time began, by truck drivers,
there is no damage done to the gearbox at all once you learn how to do it.
I challenge you to drive and old ACE or an ald ACCO international truck for a day and use the clutch on EVERY gear change. I expect you to last about two hours before your leg muscles crap out from the pressure of the clutch.
Synconising (sp?) you trottle, pressure on the gear lever, and listening to the"feel" of the vehicle you are driving are all part of it.
Todays drivers are not taught this skill anymore as it is not needed with todays full syncromesh gearboxes and hydrulic clutches.
Try and old lever action or cable clutch one day...on a 100lb pressure plate ...then you will understand why the skill was needed.
There is no difference for a bike... it comes down in the end to knowing your machine and how it works, listening to it and working with it.
Take out the I Pod ear phones and listen to the bike you ride. It will talk to you.
Sound far fetched? Ask some of the older riders about how their bikes "talk" to them. I know mine does.

[boomer]

Sound far fetched? Ask some of the older riders about how their bikes "talk" to them. I know mine does.


Does it say 'get a fookin move on?!' ..'cos mine does :blank:

[Subike]

Na she rattles when cold a certain way that tells me its oil change time..
Squeels when needing new brake pads....
has a certain tiny vibration that dissapears at 108kph, so I know when Im in the "ticket" zone.
Coughs a couple of times...that tells me time for reserve...lol.

But then if you wear an I-pod and are listen to the rapper.."Paris".. his song.. "the devil made me do it" then I guess you have and excuse for anything.
But dont forget that clutch now will you, or your gearbox might become a mincer and only good for an under sink garbage desposal unit....
Damb, droped a teaspoon in there, no probs, just select third and it will spit it out.
:whistle:

[Slyer]

Wait, this works on cars too?
I shall have to try that, but the voice in my head is telling me not to.
(He's crazy! He's crazy!)

[YellowDog]

Getting on a bit, but I now remember my first car, being a 1974 Mini 1000. I could quite easily get it into neutral and then adjust the engine speed up or down to change down or up. I was a reckless kid a in those days and I wouldn't try it now (not just 'cos my car's an automatic).

[awayatc]

I read this article some time ago:

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/0704_sprp_riding_skills_series/index.html

And have been occasionally changing up and down ever since.

I have been advised that, provided it isn't abused, modern gearboxes can cope with clutchless changing and it won't cause any problems or damage.

I am quite careful and cautions with engine speeds however I was wondering if any KBers had extensive experience or were aware of any problems associated with clutchless gear changing?

Deserved a revival I thought.....

Been toying with it today......shifting up goes realy smooth and easy, but only on higher revs.....

Couldn't get myself to try the clutchless downshifting though.....

:scooter:

[R1madness]

Its rubbish. The long term damage you cause is inescapeable. dont do it. We do gearbox rebuilds all the time for people that say " but i read on the internet that you can do clutchless changes without hurting your bike" its a bike not a truck, the gearboxes are nothing alike.

[R1madness]

or do it if you want and bring it to me for a new set of shift forks and gears when it shits out.... hehehe we are always looking for more work.....

[awayatc]

Even if it shifts up smoothly?....
No klonking/cruntching whatso ever...
Lever just eases up gently in certain cconditions.....

Just curious....

Nice bike by the way....very happy with it.
Thanks

[R1madness]

Its like this, every time you knock it thru there is damage done, only slight but its there, the effects are compounding, sooner or later it will start jumping out of gear. This is the engagement dogs wearing out. Then the shift forks get bent by the gear comming out of engagement. then one day you are blasting along at max revs going for another gear, you knock it into gear and it jumps out just as you wack the throttle open, since you are almost at redline anyway the engine overrevs and the piston hits a valve braking its head off and falling into the combustion chamber, it tips onto its side and wedges into the piston abd gets slamed into the cylinder head cracking it, as well as bending the conrod.
So its off to the guys ar just motorcycles for an estimate for repairs. A short guy comes out and says hmmmm been doing clutchless gear changes have ya ? to which you will reply " i read it on the net that you can do it without damageing your bike" and the short guy will say hmmmm just throw the old rooted motor away and i will try to find you a good one......
Sorry but experiance tells me dont do it.

[Motu]

[QUOTE=R1madness;1711207its a bike not a truck, the gearboxes are nothing alike.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you should pull down an old ''crash'' truck gearbox sometime - constant mesh,sliding engagement gears with dogs,just like a motorcycle.Only difference with operation is that a bike hasn't got hand selection and a neutral between gears to syncronise speed.The problem of course is operator error.

[spongebob]

hay look i have no probs with up shifting with a pre loaded gear shifter by simply backing off the gas but simple pysics says no to the downshift you not just going to dlip into time so easy but hay your bikr your money

[McJim]

This was mentoned before:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=34427&page=2

I particularly enjoyed post #17 on the subject. :rofl:

[cooneyr]

......
But dont forget that clutch now will you, or your gearbox might become a mincer and only good for an under sink garbage desposal unit....
Damb, droped a teaspoon in there, no probs, just select third and it will spit it out.
:whistle:

Stick it in reverse - one of the BT classics. Lots of them on youtube now including this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rRyiidjU1o).

Cheers R

[CookMySock]

I find it hard to believe that you can do a clutchless gear change in a cage. Your gearbox must be stuffed man.In a car - It is very hard on the synchros, but if you have to you can. If you want to try it do this - One day when you have been driving for 30 mins or so, and your brain is coasting not thinking anything in particular, simply change from third to fourth without the clutch. The key is, you have to not think about it and just do it. If you think, it wont work. You can do this from any gear to any gear, but third to fourth is the easiest. It also helps if you don't take your foot all the way off the gas. If you repeatedly fuck it up, forget it coz you will wreck it - you are not the sort of driver who should be trying this (some can, some can't.)


Steve

[johan]

Most race quick shifters cuts the ignition for a fraction of a second when the shift lever is pushed, no clutch is used.
But then, those gearboxes probably get rebuilt quite frequently anyway.

[koba]

I had to do it today, My clutch cable snapped.:angry:

[Max Preload]

...you knock it into gear and it jumps out just as you wack the throttle open, since you are almost at redline anyway the engine overrevs and the piston hits a valve...

Only if your camchain snaps.

I've always clutchless upshifted above 2nd and most often clutchless downshift all the way down to 2nd and never had a problem with any gearbox wear.

[dipshit]

and most often clutchless downshift all the way down to 2nd and never had a problem with any gearbox wear.

At least this makes me feel good that I brought myself a brand-new bike.

:confused: