Oil Types - Pros and Cons

[Timati]

Can anyone suggest the type of oil to use for both 2/4 (just in case someone asks but am specifically interested in 2 strokers) stroke engines? I have been looking for Castrol TTS high and low and can't seem to locate it anywhere and was wondering which oil I could use as a replacement and what the pros and cons of using the suggested oil.

[PirateJafa]

Most Caltex stations or Repco stores have Castrol TTS.

[Timati]

Any other suggestions apart from Castrol TTS?

[Slyer]

I heard Castrol TTS was pretty good, can't recall from where though.

[HungusMaximist]

Just whip in some lawnmower oil and presto..

[motorbyclist]

i run my pocketrocket on this stuff i got at mobil....

[Jerry74]

Valvoline or Pennzoil is pretty good too if you don't mind paying for it

[Timati]

Just whip in some lawnmower oil and presto..

I bet you get high on the same shit haha


i run my pocketrocket on this stuff i got at mobil....

What stuff?


I heard Castrol TTS was pretty good, can't recall from where though.

Yeah I heard the same but would like to know why.


Valvoline or Pennzoil is pretty good too if you don't mind paying for it

Thanks dude. What's the difference between the oils? Why use one over the other? What are the benefits?

[Squiggles]

I used to run my rgv on Repsol 2T comp, about $20 a litre from memory, got it from Mt Eden but the scooter place across the road also had it, as im sure others do too

[Jerry74]

The more expensive oils Valvoline etc provide better lubrication at higher temps

[Jerry74]

Another options is to use a bit of Moreys upper cylinder lubricant or Powerup additive with your oil change = more protection for your valves etc

[Squiggles]

Another options is to use a bit of Moreys upper cylinder lubricant or Powerup additive with your oil change = more protection for your valves etc

Valves? Oil change? we're talking two smokers, where the only oils the stuff ya burn and the stuff that keeps the gearbox nice

I liked the repsol stuff, never switched off it, burnt cleanly and rarely gunked up, had that lurvly smell too

[Patar]

Another options is to use a bit of Moreys upper cylinder lubricant or Powerup additive with your oil change = more protection for your valves etc

Gotta be careful with additives as they're usually designed to decrease friction.
As most motorcycle share oil between the engine and clutch using additives that decrease the friction could cause the clutch to slip. Also the shearing forces exerted on the oil in the clutch will degrade the polymers quicker, hence the shorter oil change periods than cars.

And to actually answer the original question, any two stroke oil from a reputable motorcycle show will do you well (as long as it's suited to your bike) no reason why or why not as most of them are effectively the same, motul, castrol, all the same shit.




and all this while drunk, sweet.

[Jerry74]

Solve the problem get a 4 stroke hahaha no more angry grasshoppers stuck in your engine....

I used to ride a NSR250 lotsa fun until you get blitzed by a GSXR or a Duke...

[motorbyclist]

I used to run my rgv on Repsol 2T comp, about $20 a litre from memory, got it from Mt Eden but the scooter place across the road also had it, as im sure others do too

secret honda rider!


Another options is to use a bit of Moreys upper cylinder lubricant or Powerup additive with your oil change = more protection for your valves etc

ignoring this being a two stroke (unless ya meant powervalves?), all oils today come with very complete and well thought out additive packages anyway

by adding your own additives you have no idea how your chemicals are going to react with the existing ones, and usually the only benefit is psychological

(besides, oil won't help four stroke valves much where it counts - at the inlet/exhaust port. the hole they slide in wears faster than the valve stem does.)

[Zim_Invader]

girlfrien asks how i come to know the very wierd/random things about bikes that i do. my answer.. rob norris! (she never gets it... then again, saying i steal the knowledge from kb is too easy an answer anyway... pronouncing motorbycyclist is too much effort, and saying squiggs lots of times, over and over again leaves the tongue numb. hahaha... i love bikeS! threads like this are awesome for ppl like me. just don't know, and know even less where to start! cheers timati. u started a good leaner-aid thread!

[PirateJafa]

Jesus H. Christ on a stick Zim. I feel like finding a handy brick wall to beat my head against after every one of your posts.

[motorbyclist]

needs MOAR complete sentences!

(isn't too bad anymore actually, just needs MOAR spacing too)

[BANZAI]

[QUOTE=Zim_Invader;1740689]

"My" girlfriend asks "me" how i come to know the very wierd/random things about bikes that i do.

My answer "is"... "R"ob "N"orris! (she never gets it... then again, saying i steal the knowledge from kb is too easy an answer anyway...")"

"P"ronouncing motorbycyclist is too much effort, and saying squiggs lots of times, over and over again leaves the tongue numb.

"H"ahaha... i love bikeS! threads like this are awesome for ppl like me.

"J"ust don't know, and know even less where to start! cheers timati"," "you" started a good leaner-aid thread! :done:

[Quasievil]

there is Only one brand of oil, the rest are pretenders

Mobil 1 Racing 4t, fully synthetic race oil (as I use)
Mobil Extra 4t, semi synthetic

Available from

MOBIL

the world LEADER in Synthetic technology

From your friendly Mobil business development manager for Central North Island.

:drool:

[Timati]

The more expensive oils Valvoline etc provide better lubrication at higher temps

So are you suggesting the more expensive they are, the better lubrication they provide (doesn't sound quite right, haha, wonder if they say the same thing for condoms)


Valves? Oil change? we're talking two smokers, where the only oils the stuff ya burn and the stuff that keeps the gearbox nice

I liked the repsol stuff, never switched off it, burnt cleanly and rarely gunked up, had that lurvly smell too

Cool. So did you use the others and see a difference?


Gotta be careful with additives as they're usually designed to decrease friction.
As most motorcycle share oil between the engine and clutch using additives that decrease the friction could cause the clutch to slip. Also the shearing forces exerted on the oil in the clutch will degrade the polymers quicker, hence the shorter oil change periods than cars.

And to actually answer the original question, any two stroke oil from a reputable motorcycle show will do you well (as long as it's suited to your bike) no reason why or why not as most of them are effectively the same, motul, castrol, all the same shit.

and all this while drunk, sweet.

How do you know which is well suited for your bike if the manual doesn't outline it? For example, I noticed a difference in performance when I used the fully synthetic oil from Mobil in comparison to Motul. Does it mean it's better? If so, why?


Solve the problem get a 4 stroke hahaha no more angry grasshoppers stuck in your engine....

I used to ride a NSR250 lotsa fun until you get blitzed by a GSXR or a Duke...

Nah, love my RS too much to get a 4 stroke.


girlfrien asks how i come to know the very wierd/random things about bikes that i do. my answer.. rob norris! (she never gets it... then again, saying i steal the knowledge from kb is too easy an answer anyway... pronouncing motorbycyclist is too much effort, and saying squiggs lots of times, over and over again leaves the tongue numb. hahaha... i love bikeS! threads like this are awesome for ppl like me. just don't know, and know even less where to start! cheers timati. u started a good leaner-aid thread!

Haha, I guess a conversation about lubrication always helps when with the ladies..


there is Only one brand of oil, the rest are pretenders

Mobil 1 Racing 4t, fully synthetic race oil (as I use)
Mobil Extra 4t, semi synthetic

Available from

MOBIL

the world LEADER in Synthetic technology

From your friendly Mobil business development manager for Central North Island.

:drool:

Apart from the apparent drool, haha, why is it better? Don't want to know the intricacies of it but would like to know why one outperforms the other and how do I know which one to use?

[Patar]

I would say there isn't really any appreciable difference between brands of oil (and I may well get shot for spouting such blasphemy)

But the difference between fully synthetic and not synthetic (word escapes me presently) is that the fully synthetic is engineered so that all the molecules are the same length and have the same composition, thus providing better lubrication and lasting longer while the non synthetic oils are made naturally and contain imperfections.

[Quasievil]

I would say there isn't really any appreciable difference between brands of oil (and I may well get shot for spouting such blasphemy)

But the difference between fully synthetic and not synthetic (word escapes me presently) is that the fully synthetic is engineered so that all the molecules are the same length and have the same composition, thus providing better lubrication and lasting longer while the non synthetic oils are made naturally and contain imperfections.

thats a fairly good summary, yes the Synthetic oil is refined from Ethanol > Polyalphaolefins the advantage is as suggested above is the molecules are all the same size and shape, this enables a easy glide between metals meaning less friction, think of it like the same size ball bearings between to steel plates vs multi sized ball bearings between two metal surfaces, Synthetics are better at keeping the metals apart and obviously one is going to glide better than the other.
Less friction = less heat = longer engine life and increased fuel efficency.
Also the oil life is better as well, its a win win.

Synthetics are the way to go.

There are some differences between companies oils, for example Castrol say its synthetic but it isnt a trus synthetic its a highly refined Mineral oil with lots of additives, Mobil took them to court over this but they won the right to use the word synthetic, even though its not a true synthetic as has been developed, so be aware that there are some inferior oils out there. Mobil is the leader in synthetic oils and legally Im allowed to say that as its a fact.
But taking the Mobil Hat off, there are heaps of good oils out there but there is only 1 top one

[Timati]

Found 2 good sources which delve further into what oil is -

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0310_oil/index.html

[Phurrball]

Enjoy the attached 'Engine oil bible'.

Found somewhere on KB I think, but cant find it again - so it's a repost I fear.

Zim can read my 'How to write stuff good' practice papers (if he's bored or forced into it by the junior Hitchers here) ;)

[motorbyclist]

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

http://www.carbibles.com/bikes.html lol scroll down to "My rant about car-only drivers."

[AllanB]

Sometimes a little bit of friction is soooo good. Ahhhhhh :whistle:


As can be a little lubrication. Ahhhh :whistle:


If you know what I mean eh??



Wink Wink nudge nudge



Say no more



You did not see me alright ...................

[Phurrball]

^^^ Thank you MB for an updated version (and a good rant to read)

[klyong82]

I have only been using Motul on the last 5 of my bikes.....I'll been keen to try out Repsol or Mobil next oil change......heard wonderful things about the Repsol and Mobil...reduces the clunky sound from a Honda transmission...

[bomma]

i find that the best oil is found on the face of teenaged virgins that work at takeaway joints :drool:

[Timati]

i find that the best oil is found on the face of teenaged virgins that work at takeaway joints :drool:

And I wonder how you "drain" that oil....

Anyone know what happens when you mix different kinds of oils together i.e. for example if you were using Mobil before and then switch to Castrol half way through....

[klyong82]

And I wonder how you "drain" that oil....

Anyone know what happens when you mix different kinds of oils together i.e. for example if you were using Mobil before and then switch to Castrol half way through....

Not sure but you can do a test. Get a clear see through glass bottle, fill the bottle up with both types of oil, cover the lid and give it a good shake, leave it overnight and see the results.

[motorbyclist]

same thing as if you added additives;

unknown reaction between chemicals

(which is a common problem in medicine where they often don't know how different drugs interact with each other until a patient dies)

just get near the bottom of the tank before switching - that way you'll actually get a better idea of which oil runs better. either that or go and clean out teh whole system

[Quasievil]

And I wonder how you "drain" that oil....

Anyone know what happens when you mix different kinds of oils together i.e. for example if you were using Mobil before and then switch to Castrol half way through....

Then you would end up with your own brand bro.
Not an ideal situation.

[Timati]

Been riding with Mobil 1 for the past week and the difference is noticeable. The ride's smoother and the exhaust's cleaner (no noticeable gunks). Going to keep riding with Mobile 1 for a couple of weeks and then will give Castrol TTS a go.

[Quasievil]

Been riding with Mobil 1 for the past week and the difference is noticeable. The ride's smoother and the exhaust's cleaner (no noticeable gunks). Going to keep riding with Mobile 1 for a couple of weeks and then will give Castrol TTS a go.

Why are you changing it so quick? Mobil 1 being a synthetic will last 3 times longer than a mineral oil

[Kickaha]

Why are you changing it so quick? Mobil 1 being a synthetic will last 3 times longer than a mineral oil

TTS is a two stroke oil, maybe he's talking two stroke rather than four

[motorbyclist]

Why are you changing it so quick? Mobil 1 being a synthetic will last 3 times longer than a mineral oil

pretty sure he mentioned it's a two stroke.... he did mention the exhaust not gunking...

for the record he's riding an aprilia RS250

[Timati]

Why are you changing it so quick? Mobil 1 being a synthetic will last 3 times longer than a mineral oil

Yeah but want to give Castroll TTS a go and see if it has a noticeable difference. Apparently, it's better designed for 2 strokers.


TTS is a two stroke oil, maybe he's talking two stroke rather than four

Yeah I was ...


pretty sure he mentioned it's a two stroke.... he did mention the exhaust not gunking...

for the record he's riding an aprilia RS250

It's definitely not gunking now. Out with Motul...

[Quasievil]

Yeah but want to give Castroll TTS a go and see if it has a noticeable difference. Apparently, it's better designed for 2 strokers.


On what basis is it better do you know? (just interested in your thoughts)

[Squiggles]

he gets more "ding" for each "ringadingding..."

[Timati]

On what basis is it better do you know? (just interested in your thoughts)

No I don't. I was told by someone who used race them. I would like to know though if someone knew the details of which oil is better dependent on the bike since it makes a difference in how the bike performs.

[fatzx10r]

can anyone recomed a good oil to run in a kx450f. cheer's

[Timati]

Found a good article explaining which oils to use and why - http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/motoroil.htm

[motorbyclist]

can anyone recomed a good oil to run in a kx450f. cheer's

i run my yz400f with motul or preferably golden spectro (parrafin wax based and often cheap too) if i can find it

just make sure it's synthetic and exceeds the api SJ rating or whatever the manual specifies for your bike (so SL is good too)

if kawasaki has an equivalent to yamalube, don't buy it it's horribly overpriced for what it is

i've tried a caltex oil from gas stations but prefer to buy from a bike shop.... ultimately i don't think you're noing to notice much performance difference in a four stroke until it comes time for a rebuild, and even then...

(corrections welcome)

[Quasievil]

i run my yz400f with motul or preferably golden spectro (parrafin wax based and often cheap too) if i can find it

just make sure it's synthetic and exceeds the api SJ rating or whatever the manual specifies for your bike (so SL is good too)

if kawasaki has an equivalent to yamalube, don't buy it it's horribly overpriced for what it is

i've tried a caltex oil from gas stations but prefer to buy from a bike shop.... ultimately i don't think you're noing to notice much performance difference in a four stroke until it comes time for a rebuild, and even then...

(corrections welcome)

Parrafin Wax based synthetic ? is there such a thing?
here to learn n share :confused:

[motorbyclist]

Parrafin Wax based synthetic ? is there such a thing?
here to learn n share :confused:

that's why i specified... wasn't too clear about that though i'd admit.

it has the rating and when i first found it it was dirt cheap too -ran without any problems at all so stuck with it til the price doubled for some reason... uncle recommended the stuff (ex speedway/sidecar racer, biker, top hobby mechanic)

[Quasievil]

that's why i specified... wasn't too clear about that though i'd admit.

it has the rating and when i first found it it was dirt cheap too -ran without any problems at all so stuck with it til the price doubled for some reason... uncle recommended the stuff (ex speedway/sidecar racer, biker, top hobby mechanic)

Synthetic oils (real ones) are polyalphaolyfin POA based, the only reference I have to parriffin wax in my Mobil info for use in plucking mutton birds (for real)
go figure

[aewilliam]

I want my RS250 back... :weep:

Went through 4L of Castrol TTS in it too - it was the cheapest synthetic i could find! (Supercheap Auto has it...)
It smelled nasty though, and tasted likewise.

Spotted ELF synthetic which smelled much better - mmm fruity berries! and tasted likewise. :drool:
A couple dollars more expensive than TTS for the 4L (Scootling in Newton), but it was much friendlier to the 4strokers behind me :chase:

Didnt really see any diff in performance tho...thereagain, it really needed a good looking over/rebuild.
which is where its at, and hence me wanting my RS250 back... :weep:

[Timati]

I want my RS250 back... :weep:

Went through 4L of Castrol TTS in it too - it was the cheapest synthetic i could find! (Supercheap Auto has it...)
It smelled nasty though, and tasted likewise.

Spotted ELF synthetic which smelled much better - mmm fruity berries! and tasted likewise. :drool:
A couple dollars more expensive than TTS for the 4L (Scootling in Newton), but it was much friendlier to the 4strokers behind me :chase:

Didnt really see any diff in performance tho...thereagain, it really needed a good looking over/rebuild.
which is where its at, and hence me wanting my RS250 back... :weep:

Surprised you didn't notice any difference in performance in your RS. I noticed a difference as soon as I switched from Motul to Mobil1. Yet to try Castrol TTS. Just bought a 1 litre bottle.

[Quasievil]

Surprised you didn't notice any difference in performance in your RS. I noticed a difference as soon as I switched from Motul to Mobil1. Yet to try Castrol TTS. Just bought a 1 litre bottle.

Thats cause MOBIL oils are the best in the world dude

[The Stranger]

Found a good article explaining which oils to use and why - http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/motoroil.htm

I found these comments interesting when following a link on that page you mention to a real world test of synthetic oils.

# Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.
# Topping up the crankcase is a critical component of extended oil change intervals, and frequent filter changes are most likely the key to extreme-length intervals. The cumulative effect of even minor top-ups, let alone a filter change, substantially increases the longevity of the oil.

[Quasievil]

I found these comments interesting when following a link on that page you mention to a real world test of synthetic oils.

# Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.


That my good friend is a load of Bullshit

[The Stranger]

That my good friend is a load of Bullshit

May well be sir - hey I don't make the news, I only report it.

That said, it is the most comprehensive independent oil test I have seen to date.

Link (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html) (should you care) however, I suspect the key was "some" age.

[Subike]

I found these comments interesting when following a link on that page you mention to a real world test of synthetic oils.

# Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.
# Topping up the crankcase is a critical component of extended oil change intervals, and frequent filter changes are most likely the key to extreme-length intervals. The cumulative effect of even minor top-ups, let alone a filter change, substantially increases the longevity of the oil.



Thats interesting for a silly reason I believe it.
In the 70's I had a MK3 Zepher, The motor blew so I sourced another,
The motor I found, came from a car that had been used as a work hack.
In the god know how long the owner had it, it never had an oil change.
Paid $50 for the whole car. The motor ran quiet as, blew no smoke, had reasonable power just looked fucking dirty as, Ran it for a week to see if it was ok. sweet as.
Changed into my car, gave it an oil change and a good wash, new filter, set the rockers, points, plugs, timinmg ... bla bla bla,
It smoke rattled and ran like shit! The gaskets all started leaking and it blew a frost plug.
I should never have cleaned it or given it an oil change, the dirt was all that was sealing the engine from leaks, so maybe there is some truth in
THE STRANGER's post

[Quasievil]

lol this is getting funny, actually its a fact that you should throw in a handful of sand into your engine as well, this increases engine life as well, oh and get only dirty fuel , engines love it
:laugh:

[Timati]

I found these comments interesting when following a link on that page you mention to a real world test of synthetic oils.

# Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.
# Topping up the crankcase is a critical component of extended oil change intervals, and frequent filter changes are most likely the key to extreme-length intervals. The cumulative effect of even minor top-ups, let alone a filter change, substantially increases the longevity of the oil.


lol this is getting funny, actually its a fact that you should throw in a handful of sand into your engine as well, this increases engine life as well, oh and get only dirty fuel , engines love it
:laugh:

Considering I top up my engine oil everyday (rather than let it run low) should mean I would be almost be most certainly causing major engine wear. Doesn't make sense to me...aren't engine oils meant to reduce friction and on the basis that aged engine oil won't be as effective as new engine oil...Am not an expert but would be keen to know...

[Subike]

think of it like the same size ball bearings between to steel plates vs multi sized ball bearings between two metal surfaces, Synthetics are better at keeping the metals apart and obviously one is going to glide better than the other.
Less friction = less heat = longer engine life and increased fuel efficency.
Also the oil life is better as well, its a win win.





Old oil is like when all the multi sized ball bearings have be rolled around that much they are all the same size as the Synthetic oils and do just as good a job, so why change it, just top it up from the recycling center, hell they might pay you to use it!
:whistle:

[PirateJafa]

Considering I top up my engine oil everyday (rather than let it run low) should mean I would be almost be most certainly causing major engine wear. Doesn't make sense to me...aren't engine oils meant to reduce friction and on the basis that aged engine oil won't be as effective as new engine oil...Am not an expert but would be keen to know...
Timati, it's probably best to ignore Quasi and company - they are talking four-strokes, not two-strokes!

[Squiggles]

Timati, it's probably best to ignore Quasi and company - they are talking four-strokes, not two-strokes!

Yer, in their world, burning oil isnt part of the plan...

[Real_Wolf]

You know, that post is probably true.

I never topped up my oil in the short few months I owned my bike, and then the service people changed my oil filter, and oil, and it broke down soon after.

Of course that might have been because the metal in the oil filter wasn't all the metal in the system, and some more got through the oil filter. Personally I'm of the opinion that the metal was what was actually filtering my oil.

[Timati]

Seeing that we are on the topic of oil, I was advised that oil should be topped up as often as possible rather than having it run empty out before topping it up again. I guess I'm interested primarily in 2 strokers however for the benefit of everyone any thoughts on 2/4 strokers would be welcome.

[Squiggles]

Its a good idea as it means if you forget/dont have any oil on you then you've got that safety margin, just like topping the bike up with gas when its still half full.

[Gibbo13p]

Another options is to use a bit of Moreys upper cylinder lubricant or Powerup additive with your oil change = more protection for your valves etc


Won't that effect your clutch plates...especially an additive like powerup

[Patar]

Won't that effect your clutch plates...especially an additive like powerup

depends if oil is shared with the gearbox.

[motorbyclist]

depends on it being a dry or wet clutch, and then if it's wet where the oil comes from matters.

and in 99% of road going japanese four strokes it's a wet clutch with one lot of oil circulating around the whole motor

which is the strong argument against using car products in wet clutch type motorcycles