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WarlockNZ
14th October 2008, 17:11
Afternoon oh great givers of knowledge.

Seeing as the Clutch fluid is turning brown, I think it's time to replace it.

Just a couple of questions.

1 . Dot 4 glycol fluid ..

is this just plain old brake fluid ??
does brake fluid come in other things other than glycol brake fluid? and if so is it listed on the bottle?

2. How much do I need to buy??

The service manual doesn't mention how much the bike needs (unlike oil) .. will two ltr's be enough or will it need more ??? (factoring in that it's a full replacement).

3. What the best way to drain the fluid??

Yes yes ... just open the plug and let it drain i know ... but, if you don't ask the question, you don't find out any tricks now do you??

4. Bleeding the clutch.

Just like the brakes yes ???? .. not rocket science :)

I think that pretty much covers it, unless someone can think of something I've missed??

Cheers

cs363
14th October 2008, 17:17
1. Yes - conventional brake fluid is glycol based. There are some that are silicone based but these are rare and expensive. Just go to Supercheap or wherever and get a bottle (600ml) of Castrol Super Response DOT 4 (silver bottle)

2. See above :)

3. See 4

4. Yes (If lots of crud in M/Cyl flush old fluid out with Methylated spirits as this won't damage the seals and will also absorb any water. Then fill and bleed with fresh brake fluid. A vacuum bleeder is quite helpful if you have one or access to one.

WarlockNZ
14th October 2008, 18:59
excellent ... thanks very much :)

cs363
14th October 2008, 19:11
Pleased to help :)

WarlockNZ
14th October 2008, 19:18
just to clarify ... 600ml for a full replace will actually do it ???

Max Preload
14th October 2008, 19:31
just to clarify ... 600ml for a full replace will actually do it ???

Plenty if you do it right.

imdying
15th October 2008, 07:24
Seeing as the Clutch fluid is turning brown, I think it's time to replace it.It'll do it again in about a week, all SV1Ks do it.

is this just plain old brake fluid ??Yep, any DOT 4 is fine.

How much do I need to buy??500ml will be heaps.

3. What the best way to drain the fluid??Don't, just bleed the new stuff through.

Just like the brakes yes ???? .. not rocket science :)Yes, but even easier, you'd be hard pressed to mess this job up.


Do not put anything into your system but brake fluid, there's no need, and you cannot be sure that you'll remove all of the contaminant that you're putting in (anything you put in other than brake fluid is a contaminant). If a system looks as though it has sludge build up, then strip and clean it correctly.

vifferman
15th October 2008, 08:33
Yeah, what imdying said. Clutch fluid goes brown really quickly - I think part of it is more air gets in at the m/c end and slave cylinder end than for brakes.
You'll find when bleeding it that it's a bit different to bleeding brakes, as there's less pressure with the lever pulled in, so it feels like you're not getting anywhere. Just ignore that - it's working OK.
You can flush the old fluid through fairly quickly by loosening the banjo at the bottom end, but it doesn't take long to do anyway, so don't worry too much.
Unlike the brakes, having discoloured fluid doesn't make much difference to the performance of the clutch, as you've got less pressure, and no heat to make the moisture form bubbles, so don't worry too much about it. Maybe it's the lack of heat that's partly responsible for the discolouration.

imdying
15th October 2008, 09:20
There's been a bit of debate on the SV1k forums, but no definitive answer. Rest assured that all SV1ks discolour their clutch fluid in record time. I'm picking that the discolouration is from the break down of the hoses and clutch slave piston seal. It's minor, but sufficient to discolour the fluid... potentially this is related to heat from the motor, but I'm not convinced yet.

It's a shitty clutch feel on those bikes anyway... very abrubt. Wouldn't recommend the SV to less confident/experienced riders for that reason alone... get baited into racing someone from a standing start, and it's very easy to launch the front wheel skyward unexpectedly.

To convert them to cable is pretty trivial, but I put a nice little billet reservoir on from vandriver, so not going to do that to mine :D

cs363
15th October 2008, 10:31
The reason the fluid changes colour is that is has abosrbed water. It is designed to do this as an indicator that a fluid change is required.
You can read more about brake fluid here: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=81031

imdying
15th October 2008, 11:05
Not in this particular case. We have a meter for analysing the moisture content in brake fluid, and it shows no notable moisture contamination. The next analysis step is outside of my testing toys, and I don't consider it important enough to have the lab analyse it (as that would cost me money). But yep, typically you would be correct. Some of the guys with braided lines have reported more time between discolouration, and given that you can see the particulates in the fluid, it seems likely that the line is breaking down. I'll crimp up a braided line one day to replace mine, when I do that, I'll chop this one open for a look.

cs363
15th October 2008, 12:30
Not in this particular case. We have a meter for analysing the moisture content in brake fluid, and it shows no notable moisture contamination. The next analysis step is outside of my testing toys, and I don't consider it important enough to have the lab analyse it (as that would cost me money). But yep, typically you would be correct. Some of the guys with braided lines have reported more time between discolouration, and given that you can see the particulates in the fluid, it seems likely that the line is breaking down. I'll crimp up a braided line one day to replace mine, when I do that, I'll chop this one open for a look.


Interesting - and yes, the colour change/water contamination is a generalisation that is more often than not correct, though as you've obviously had the fancy toys out in this case other factors must be in play. I would have thought that assuming the slave cylinder is given to heat soak (I'm not familiar with its placement on the SV) water contamination would have been likely due condensation from the fluid heating and cooling.
But perhaps its from dirt contamination from poor sealing or as you suggest from the line breaking down (again accellerated by engine heat).
Whatever the case it would seem that clutch fluid flush and replenishment on a regular basis would be good advice for an SV owner.

imdying
15th October 2008, 12:57
Now if we knew someone who worked in a lab that could test this to find out what the 'junk' is, that would be handy... normally we'd outsource this, and almost always that's only when an insurance company (or the police) want to know if the condition of brake fluid (we can test for moisture content, but our results aren't 'certifiable', i.e. stand up in court material) in a car was attributal in an accident... of course, that ain't cheap, more expensive than my curiousity allows me to spend at least :lol:

Ixion
15th October 2008, 13:10
There is a shit load of info about this on Spankme's SV forum. Basically, all the SV1Ks do it, and trying to do anything about it seems to cause more grief than it solves.

WarlockNZ
15th October 2008, 13:30
Well ... the manual recommends a replacement of the fluid every two years and the lines at 4.

seeing as i've had it for 12 months, i might as well change the fluid, i'll change the lines to braided when i can find some :)

imdying
15th October 2008, 13:32
Best time to change your brake/clutch fluid is the same time as your oil... i.e. every WOF (easy way remember when it needs to be done), naturally don't leave your oil that long if you're doing big miles :lol: Fluid is cheap as chips, and it's an easy easy job.

cs363
15th October 2008, 13:43
Don't know if you guys have seen these, but there's some good info and a possible fix here:

http://www.suzukisv1000.com/faq/clutch.htm
http://www.suzukisv1000.com/faq/clutch3.htm#revised

imdying
15th October 2008, 15:11
Yep, have seen it, haven't had the motivation to verify the results myself.

However, I am working on a small carbon fibre bracket to hold an additional slave boot, to try and keep as much crap from reaching the seal as possible.

notme
15th October 2008, 15:38
Heya WarlockNZ -

According to my notes, that SV had a fluid change just before it became yours, I have the date here as October 2007. Fluid is cheap and it's an easy job and a good opportunity to check and adjust things, so it definitley won't hurt to change it sooner rather than later.....

The extra seal was fitted to the slave cylinder by Mt Eden m/c in early 2007 (no exact date sorry).

I looked for braided lines once (one of the few things I didn't do to that bike!) but all I could find were pretty fookin expensive...would be a nice addition though! I have heard of WOF problems with braided lines, but that would seem unlikely as long as they meet whatever standards are required.....? Don't know much about that subject.

I like the one man brake bleeding kits you get from supercheap etc - even though you can reach the bleed nut on a bike a wee bit easier than on a car, I still find them a nicer way to do it.

:niceone:

WarlockNZ
17th October 2008, 16:26
Awesome!! ... thanks bro.

Max Preload
17th October 2008, 17:42
I looked for braided lines once (one of the few things I didn't do to that bike!) but all I could find were pretty fookin expensive...would be a nice addition though! I have heard of WOF problems with braided lines, but that would seem unlikely as long as they meet whatever standards are required.....? Don't know much about that subject.

For anyone who is interested - from the VIRM (http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/certifiers/virm-in-service/motorcycles-08-v3.pdf):


Hose end fittings that can be undone using hand tools are unacceptable.

That is not the connection to the banjo, but the connection to the flexible section of HOSE itself.