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Nasty
11th April 2009, 22:37
Ok .. so I decided top make Grubs death an issue ...

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/a-colloquial-road-names-crisis-2636891/video

More to the point this is to help other riders who have accidents and are hurt needing help. This is a result of the enquiry that I forced the ambulance service to do. They have admited some fault .. but wiggled out of other fuck ups they did ... that is ok .. cos there are changes afoot to help us all.

James Deuce
11th April 2009, 22:45
Nicely done Kari.

chanceyy
11th April 2009, 22:46
Awesome and outstanding job you have done Kari .. definitely not easy for you .. however this could/will help someone else in the future and my road currently has two different names

you truely are an inspriational woman .. we are proud of you babe :hug: .. as Grubb would be as well :yes:

Ocean1
11th April 2009, 22:46
Indeed, saw the article, well done Kari.

gammaguy
11th April 2009, 22:50
IMHO its about time the cellphone providers got in on the act here.

If i understand correctly they can tell down to a few metres where a phone on their network is at any given time.Bearing in mind the number of Kiwis that carry a cellphone,that provides a pretty powerful argument for making the Telephone Providers share information with the ambulance and police services.

Even if the positioning software is not that accurate,it would certainly avoid ambulances heading in completely different directions to the crash site,as i understand happened in this case after watching the TVNZ video of the report.

MadDuck
11th April 2009, 22:52
Kari you were brilliant. Thanks for taking up the cause for all bikers and not giving up on a cause dear to your heart.

riffer
11th April 2009, 22:55
As they said Kari.

I'd like to think that your work has made it more likely that more motorcyclists will have a better outcome if the worst happens.

You rock. :yes:

Nasty
12th April 2009, 09:03
I think that Mellissa (reporter) did an awesome job ... since I couldn't give her the report from the ambulance service ... and Alexia OBrien could only look at it on her behalf ... :)

jrandom
12th April 2009, 09:35
Mm, good stuff.

Speaking from experience, the map data for NZ is pretty low quality compared to what's available for the rest of the civilised world.

Full-on imaginary gaps in the roads that make it difficult for computers to find routes from A to B, missing names (as St John have discovered), etc.

There is usually structural provision in the data design for roads to have multiple names, but in the absence of investment from the big international mapping firms like TeleAtlas or Navteq, the full info isn't always collected.

I note that a search on Google Maps for "forgotten highway, new zealand" finds the right area, but only because Google Maps has additional 'point of interest' data. The road itself isn't tagged with that name - Google Maps will almost certainly be using the same data source for NZ as St John is.

If St John are now investing in augmenting the data they get from their mapping provider, I hope they're not having to cut other bits of their budget to achieve it.

Surely the parlous state of publicly-available road network data in certain parts of the country is worthy of central gubmint funding to fix?

I also wonder whether TeleAtlas et al have any future plans to directly gather NZ road data they way they do in the USA and Europe. Wouldn't it be nice...

Naki Rat
12th April 2009, 09:37
IMHO its about time the cellphone providers got in on the act here.

If i understand correctly they can tell down to a few metres where a phone on their network is at any given time.Bearing in mind the number of Kiwis that carry a cellphone,that provides a pretty powerful argument for making the Telephone Providers share information with the ambulance and police services.

Even if the positioning software is not that accurate,it would certainly avoid ambulances heading in completely different directions to the crash site,as i understand happened in this case after watching the TVNZ video of the report.


Firstly, brilliant presentation Nasty - well done :niceone:

Gammaguy: All well and good but the area in question (the Forgotten Highway) has little or no cellphone coverage and the same applies to the main route out of Taranaki to the north (SH3) from Urenui to Te Kuiti. If you're lucky enough to need assistance in one of the small pockets of coverage, or someone else can drive, ride or walk to a coverage area, then triangulating onto the cellphone is do-able but also how about Telecon supplying a location of the landline that is used otherwise? Personally though Telecon would be the last people I'd entrust my wellbeing to in such a situation if I had a choice :angry2:

Pussy
12th April 2009, 09:57
You did a GREAT job, Kari... I'm proud of you!

Ms Piggy
12th April 2009, 09:57
Well done Kari! :hug: You were confident and sure of the message you wanted to get across and it sounds like it's made a BIG difference to the way St John's will operate - like cross referencing calls and finding out colloquial names.

And you also looked gorgeous!! ;)

Number One
12th April 2009, 10:02
Well done Kari. Very clear messages - I think they and you did a great job of that wee item!

I hope that website is up soon so we can all pop in the roads and highways as they are known to us.

Brett would be so proud of you chick you really are a trooper :hug:

RIP Brett.

98tls
12th April 2009, 10:24
Caught that on tele the other night,great work.You are one brave lady,much respect to you.

jrandom
12th April 2009, 10:33
They have admited some fault .. but wiggled out of other fuck ups they did ...

The TV segment showed where the ambo was dispatched from and to, but I'd be interested to know the actual location information that was given to the dispatcher during the 111 call.

No amount of investment in systems will ever be able to compensate for dispatchers lacking brain cells, or riders not actually knowing where they are when a bin happens.

Now, one can only guess that those two factors added up to a tragic fuckup in this instance, but it looks like we'll never really know what actually happened, due to some sort of enforced confidentiality? Or is there further information out there?

MSTRS
12th April 2009, 10:39
Well done Kari. Brett would have been (even more) proud of you for that. As are we all.

H00dz
12th April 2009, 10:41
Along with the many others, I thankyou too.....

Northland is safer because of it

Crisis management
12th April 2009, 11:32
Good on you Kari, anything that helps improve emergency response is worth pursuing.

I have a couple of comments from the emergency response side of the coin ( I am a coastguard volunteer).

Cell phone location....the best you will get is a general area via the cell sites ie: within 10 kms of cell site ABC, also, due to privacy laws, a search warrant is required to access this data. Maybe when phones have a GPS built in and there is a suitable tracking system you will have some surety of locating a phone but who wants to be found by big brother?

Information supplied to emergency services can be sketchy, incorrect and confused due to stress or a poor understanding of the incident, please note that this is a general observation and is no comment on Bretts' accident. The reason I mention this is that there is a perception that it is easy to understand what action is required from the information provided when in reality its more of a guessing game. Everytime I get dispatched to an emergency job I can guarantee that the initial information I am given will be 80% incorrect. For example, on friday night we were sent to search for a person having fallen out of a kayak in the Hauraki gulf some distance from shore following the sighting of an emergency flare. Two fast response vessels, the police vessel and helicopter responded plus land based police, the end result was that a group of kids let of a flare from land, someone saw some kayaks and assumed it was them and the story had grown from that. The only upside from this was that the coastwatch camera man got some good footage.

If you can take anything from this, then try and remember that it is up to the person making the emergency call to give as much accurate information as possible and have a thought about how you can tell someone where you are, not too hard in a city but the countryside is a big place with few signs. When I'm on the back roads I keep a mental count of how many Kms from the last town I passed thru and the road name.

Good luck with this Kari, please keep us posted about any progress.

MSTRS
12th April 2009, 11:36
... and the road name.



And right there is the problem...that Kari wishes to address

Virago
12th April 2009, 12:15
Kari, your strength, courage and dignity following this tragic event is inspirational. A job well done. Good on you.

JMemonic
12th April 2009, 12:48
Well done, its one more step in the process to improve the services provided.

GPS locations would help as well but they did not have that ability until recently as I understand it.

Nasty
12th April 2009, 13:57
The TV segment showed where the ambo was dispatched from and to, but I'd be interested to know the actual location information that was given to the dispatcher during the 111 call.

No amount of investment in systems will ever be able to compensate for dispatchers lacking brain cells, or riders not actually knowing where they are when a bin happens.

Now, one can only guess that those two factors added up to a tragic fuckup in this instance, but it looks like we'll never really know what actually happened, due to some sort of enforced confidentiality? Or is there further information out there?


I am just waiting on the final report .. once i have that I have told them that I would share more information .. its just a draft at the moment :)

Sharry
12th April 2009, 14:12
Well done Kari, you were poised and clear to the point with no mallice overtones. You have done us all proud, especially Brett.

What you are doing for us all on the road is well needed and will save lives :hug:

Winter
12th April 2009, 14:26
Great job there Kari.. You came across excellently, lots of good clear messages and strong points.

You've done a great thing here :-)

quickbuck
12th April 2009, 14:45
As All have said, Well done Kari. That article was tops.

My partner is a motorcyclist, but isn't a Kiwibiker so I filled her in on some of the extra background i have gleaned from here after the article.

She thought the article itself was a big enough wake-up call to joe public as it stood. So I guess that is a job well done right there.

Another thing the whole event has done is made people (all motorists) think about what could happen if they did have an off in a remote place....
Awareness is at least a step in the right direction.

Edbear
12th April 2009, 19:32
Kari you were brilliant. Thanks for taking up the cause for all bikers and not giving up on a cause dear to your heart.

And not just bikers, but all travellers! Well done!


Firstly, brilliant presentation Nasty - well done :niceone:

Gammaguy: All well and good but the area in question (the Forgotten Highway) has little or no cellphone coverage and the same applies to the main route out of Taranaki to the north (SH3) from Urenui to Te Kuiti. If you're lucky enough to need assistance in one of the small pockets of coverage, or someone else can drive, ride or walk to a coverage area, then triangulating onto the cellphone is do-able but also how about Telecon supplying a location of the landline that is used otherwise? Personally though Telecon would be the last people I'd entrust my wellbeing to in such a situation if I had a choice :angry2:

You make an interesting point. My cellphone has GPS so if I'm in coverage and physically able, I can call the emergency services and say, "I'm at latitude xx and longitude xx, come get me!" But it's not a tracking GPS. I'm going to raise this at work, (TelstraClear), and see what technology may be in the wings.


You did a GREAT job, Kari... I'm proud of you!

As are we all!

Genestho
12th April 2009, 21:22
She thought the article itself was a big enough wake-up call to joe public as it stood. So I guess that is a job well done right there.

Another thing the whole event has done is made people (all motorists) think about what could happen if they did have an off in a remote place....
Awareness is at least a step in the right direction.

Well said...

Nice job Kari, well done love :hug:

MadDuck
12th April 2009, 23:00
No amount of investment in systems will ever be able to compensate for dispatchers lacking brain cells, or riders not actually knowing where they are when a bin happens.



Without taking away from what an awesome job Kari did...... The Scottish representative of them that come and save us (hopefully) got three yes thats three phone calls about where Grubb was and still got it wrong.

FJRider
12th April 2009, 23:15
Well done Kari... INDEED.

But what was unsaid, was that ANY improvement in the ambulance call, answering system, will help ALL people who live, work, drive, ride and play, in the lesser populated/less traveled areas of New Zealand. NOT just motorcyclists. To this end, we should be looking at our own areas for "our" names of the areas we love and know. AND PASS THEM ON.

Again, well done Kari.

KoroJ
12th April 2009, 23:31
The TV segment showed where the ambo was dispatched from and to, but I'd be interested to know the actual location information that was given to the dispatcher during the 111 call.

.............

I can assure you that one of the calls (from a landline in Tahora) gave the location as "approximately 5 Km east of the Tangarakau gorge". The operator kept asking what the streetname of the road was and, if my memory serves me correctly, I'm sure the local who was making the call said "It's not a street, it's State Highway 43!"

It would seem that part of the problem is a lack of local knowledge in the centralised call centre. Perhaps it would be better if the operators patched the calls through to the reponding centre so that the first response unit establish exactly where they need to be.



Good one Kari!

DougieNZ
13th April 2009, 15:00
Interesting that everyone on here is caling the road (SH43) the forgotten highway.

Now I'm pretty sure that the road is signposted each end as the forgotten world highway. Now could this be a case of people swearing to know the "name" of a road and passing this on to the emergency services, but having the road name incorrect? This is where the database has to be quite clever. It not only has to be able to identify actual names, but also like names that the road may or may not be known by.

SH43 should have nailed it though. I think we have to have some sympathy for the emnergency call takers here. I have actually listened in at a comm centre once, and you would be amazed how shocked people react in emergency situations and then resort to abuse when their "message" is not received. People will swear that they were quite clear with the message they were giving, but in fact the reality is that the opposite was the case...

Now I am not aligning this attitude with this particular case. I attended both the 1000km ride and Grub's funeral. If anything can be learnt from this tragedy, then I am all for it - and I commend you Kari for your strength and resilience. If only we were all so strong....

This is an example of the sorts of calls that can come in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ6_rQ4GTMc

Regards

nudemetalz
13th April 2009, 15:13
As others have said, awesome job, Kari.
Brett would have been proud :niceone:

Maha
13th April 2009, 15:21
Awesome article Kari....:rockon:
Alot of work gone into getting it to this stage.



PS: What shade of lippy was that?....:sweatdrop

Mom
13th April 2009, 15:48
Thank you Kari for continuing to keep the pressure on over the issues that have come to light since Bretts accident.

There must be accountability for errors made and an assurance that any shortcomings are identified and remedied to prevent them happening again. That article certainly brought a new awareness to the general public of the issue of colloquial/common/local names and reminded St Johns that they need to properly address the problem. Setting up a website for these known names to be registered and the fact that cross referencing of calls will be made in future is a good step forward from the inquiry.

Top effort, I am very proud of you. I could almost see the grin on Bretts face while I was watching the article.

James Deuce
13th April 2009, 15:49
PS: What shade of lippy was that?....:sweatdrop
Haha! I wasn't the only one thinking how well it suited her then?

Nasty
13th April 2009, 16:31
....
Top effort, I am very proud of you. I could almost see the grin on Bretts face while I was watching the article.

Yeah that was his pic painting the porch at mums place ... I miss his grin...

Gareth51
13th April 2009, 20:47
As what has already been said , well done Kari

YellowDog
13th April 2009, 20:54
I do hope the Ambulance service recognisie this problem and takes steps to improve their ability to locate the needy.

My wife works as a tele-nurse and last night took a call which turned out to be a child with severe breathing problems. She called for an ambulance only to be told that they cannot find the address in their system to enable them to attend. She confirmed the address again however they still coild not help. I don't know what the outcome was as she patched them through to the child's mother.

Pretty serious really.

yungatart
14th April 2009, 09:19
Well done Kari!
Lets hope that they make the changes necessary so that no one else has to go through this again.

2_SL0
14th April 2009, 09:38
Very well done.

sunhuntin
14th April 2009, 13:38
that was brilliantly well done. a national database, that everyone can add to, is a top idea. you came across great, better than most of us would have managed. your strength constantly amazes me.

sels1
14th April 2009, 20:43
Good stuff Kari, this may save a few lives in the future

ynot slow
17th April 2009, 09:17
That was great.

The hardest part is when guys/girls tiki tour we know where we are going,but not the road names,i.e I know sh30 is between Te kuiti - Taupo but not the road name.

The call sent from Tahora gave the guys a rough area,perhaps the despatchers need to forward the call to closest ambulance center either Taumaranui or NP,that way it is manned by people familiar to the area.

And as all naki people know there is blank spots throughout the province,highlands/lowlands befor Eltham,Awakino area,Whanga etc.

Hope they know surf highway is sh45,once again saying surf highway could be anywhere between Hawera and NP,how many outsiders would know they are in Oeo or Okato,about 30 minutes apart.

the mouse
16th May 2009, 22:07
Good on you Kari.

What about this ... a Fire service call here directed from the "call centre" to a roof blowing off in storm at an address in Stewart street, they arrived and were miffed. Turned out it was actually in Stuart Street and the house located right beside their fire station.

howdamnhard
18th May 2009, 00:18
Well done, good work.

skidMark
18th May 2009, 01:28
Amazing kari, well done... you are saving lives.