Ohlins 30mm Cartridge Kit

**roogazza** · 31st December 2009, 12:44

Originally Posted by Yankee Doodle Dandy

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It seemed to work well for Yamaha in WSS.

I would assume that any company is always looking to move forward. Ohlins had previously taken other steps to eliminate the cross talk between the circuits and now this is their latest evolution.

Another benefit is that it is much quicker to alter the valving than a traditionally configured cartridge.

Forgive my very limited knowledge here, but is this 'cross talk' you speak of, where you adjust rebound by say 5 clicks and this at the same time affects compression by approx 1 click ? I think I have read this somewhere. G.

**Robert Taylor** · 31st December 2009, 14:22

Originally Posted by JD Racing

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They'd want to be a lot cheaper, half the parts found in a normal cartridge are missing and Soqi have done the development work.
Yet again Ohlins dumb down the suspension and call it progress, the whole part of the system that meters rod displacement has been consigned to the bin, the multiple compression tuning variables that were available have been reduced to a single midvalve, even Racetech do not consider this to be sufficient.

I'm in a world of moral confusion, constantly I read how riders buying things themselves from overseas is morally corrupt, stealing the food off honest hard working Kiwi's plates, then the next minute a guy using locally sourced Kiwi manufactured shims is immoral, he should be importing them from Sweden, I'm all conflicted, what's a guy to do for the best?

We have been using this system in 25mm guise for nearly a year and now in 30mm guise. The results speak for themselves with lap records, race wins and championships. Hard experience and results. In Australia the new Superbike champion uses this system. Developed by Soqi, no. I think Im a little bit closer to the Ohlins factory than you when it comes to information.
If you doubt this system I can find a lot of riders using this system who will very emphatically attest otherwise. Including Andrew Stroud and Craig Shirriffs who both broke lap records this last weekend.

Im not confused, when you divulge information and then the same guy chooses to use inarguably inferior shims then yes that is immoral.

**Robert Taylor** · 31st December 2009, 14:25

Originally Posted by Yankee Doodle Dandy

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It seemed to work well for Yamaha in WSS.

I would assume that any company is always looking to move forward. Ohlins had previously taken other steps to eliminate the cross talk between the circuits and now this is their latest evolution.

Another benefit is that it is much quicker to alter the valving than a traditionally configured cartridge.

Yep, youre on the money and it works VERY well!

**Robert Taylor** · 31st December 2009, 14:39

Originally Posted by roogazza

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Forgive my very limited knowledge here, but is this 'cross talk' you speak of, where you adjust rebound by say 5 clicks and this at the same time affects compression by approx 1 click ? I think I have read this at some time. G.

Cross talking is completely eliminated with this system. There are other forms of cross talk, mainly human.

**roogazza** · 31st December 2009, 18:02

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Cross talking is completely eliminated with this system. There are other forms of cross talk, mainly human.

Ok ,thanks , so I'm sort of on the right track ?!! G.

**JD Racing** · 31st December 2009, 20:13

Yankee, take a bottle of fork fluid, pour out half the contents, put the lid back on, now shake the bottle up and down for say 20 minutes, that should replicate the average sprint race. Pour it in a glass vessel, how's it look, what viscosity is that, has it remained constant for the past 20 minutes?
Now explain to me how this new 30mm system adresses that fundamental problem of open bath forks. All the WSS teams with access to Ohlins top draw components were using the pressurised TTX cartridge, Robert told us about this at the begining of 2009, if they'd launched that then that would be a step forward. Ohlins went to pressurised superbike forks years ago, all motox fork manufacturers make a pressurised fork, K-Tech, WP, Bitubo, Traxxion, all make a pressurised cartridge for street forks.

The reduced pressure differential across the 30mm piston goes some way to alleviating the risk of cavitation but as only one leg does the damping you have to make the stack much stiffer so you still have to consider the risk, pressurising the cartridge would eliminate that.

**JD Racing** · 31st December 2009, 23:11

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Cross talking is completely eliminated with this system. There are other forms of cross talk, mainly human.

The bleeds would have to differ from the Soqi and be one way valves then, how big a problem was cross talk, should Pussy be worried about his outdated conventional system?

Sounds like a solution looking for a problem to me, strange how Kayaba eliminated the very same thing in about 1991-92 on the ZXR400.

**Yankee Doodle Dandy** · 1st January 2010, 01:01

Originally Posted by JD Racing

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

All the WSS teams with access to Ohlins top draw components were using the pressurised TTX cartridge, Robert told us about this at the begining of 2009, if they'd launched that then that would be a step forward.

I was not aware they were gas charged cartridges, but they still use the single valve configuration in those forks.

Originally Posted by JD Racing

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ohlins went to pressurised superbike forks years ago, all motox fork manufacturers make a pressurised fork, K-Tech, WP, Bitubo, Traxxion, all make a pressurised cartridge for street forks.

I saw K-Tech produced a complete fork that pressurizes the cartridge by using a spring but have not seen any pressurized cartridges. K-Tech is not really too big here in the US.

I have seen pics of WP's funky looking sealed cartridge but again, WP is not popular over here.

I saw a set of Bitubo's gas charged forks at a track one day. They were put on a bike for the bling effect. As it looked like they used conduit for the gas reservoir tubes I was not all that impressed with them but I have no idea how well they function. To my knowledge, Bitubo isn't really all that popular anywhere.

I am aware of Traxxions replacement gas cartridge but do not have any personal experience with it, but have not heard any negative comments about the damping.

It would be nice for Ohlins to have released a pressurized 30mm cartridge kit. Why stop there though? Why just settle for their pressurized cartridge when they have a pressurized cartridge that utilizes a through rod design they are using in the Yamaha MotoGP bikes?

Ohlins could release what they want, but realistically how many do you think they would sell? As Ohlins is a business and not a "not for profit entity" they also consider the profitability factor. There is a reason why McDonalds makes more money per year than the best steakhouse chains.

**Shaun** · 1st January 2010, 06:26

Yankee, Very good reply mate, Ohlin's can do what ever they want to, but imagine all the internet hero's having a WHINGE about the price if they did

MotoGP this and that, yea write, who the hell is going to spend that kind of money on there Road BIKE

The 30mm kit Robert talks about, is by far the very very best feal I have ever had on the breakes, ( This makes it safer and more ridable, well done Ohlin's) I guess as one leg does compression the other rebound, " The CROSS TALK" is seriously reduced, as each leg is doing it's own job!

Yea there will be some form of Viscosity, but when the fork is only doing one function, ( So oil NOT being forced in all directions through tiny holes and past a pile of shims) this slight disturbance to the oil, is Not going to be fealt by the rider/pilot.

As well all know, good fast safe riding, comes down to feal the bike has, the 30mm has the feal

" JD QUOTE" The reduced pressure differential across the 30mm piston goes some way to alleviating the risk of cavitation. 100% agree!

JD, your discription of take a bottle and half empty it, really is a short cut of the facts mate, you know that a fork works nothing like that with it's inner internals, for a start, having a massive shim stack in it, will help reduce/eliminate the effect you are talking about, " You take the same bottle, and only poor out 25% of it, and shake it again. Lordy lordy, only half the bubbles now"

I always was in Robert's face to build me shim stacks with a lot more than reccomeneded, I believed and still do, that control is all about flow rate, so I prefer a lot more thinner and narrower shims, than the base reccomened settings, believing that having more interfairence with the shim stack, would help eliminate the viscosity for a start, so I guess the idea of one leg doing one job and the other the Tother is proof to me that my thoughts of lots of shims were correct.

**Pussy** · 1st January 2010, 07:12

Originally Posted by JD Racing

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The bleeds would have to differ from the Soqi and be one way valves then, how big a problem was cross talk, should Pussy be worried about his outdated conventional system?

Nope.... Pussy is delighted with the "conventional" system on his bike!

Whilst I can appreciate there are many factors/theories/fluid dynamics considerations etc that affect fork operation.... one must NEVER forget that suspension feel is quite a personal thing, too.
To that end, what I've got now "does it" for me. Works spot on

**Tony.OK** · 1st January 2010, 07:54

This jar theory.................by fitting bigger cartridges, that doesn't mean the air volume is suddenly bigger does it, less oil maybe but the missing oil is taken up by more hard parts.................so instead of half emptying the jar, we are putting a solid in to lessen the fluid volume, now shake it and there won't be much difference.

Surely a one way valve with larger return ports would cause alot less cavitation than a two way system, and also cause less frictional heat build up as a by product, thus remaining more stable temp wise.

Do seperate damping cartidges compensate for not being pressurized because of the much lessened oil disturbance from smaller 2 way valving forces.....................?

**Pussy** · 1st January 2010, 08:14

Not saying this is the case with Ohlins NIX 30mm cartridges... but sometimes what is "in vogue" isn't necessarily just the duck's guts.
Several years ago I had Traxxion kits fitted to my K1 GSX-R1000 (the same kits went in to my K3). Short top out springs were flavour of the day. In my opinion, they sucked! Contrary to the belief of some, I don't hang on every word of the experts. So I asked RT to get rid of the short top out springs he had fitted. There was a bit of "are you sure you really want this?" asked of me, but I wanted the longer stock ones back in, so that's what I got.
Some time later short springs went out of favour.
I'm no expert rider, but DO know what I like the handling characteristics of my bike to feel like.
Don't be afraid to tell your suspension guy what you want!

Edit: I haven't ridden on the 30mm cartridges yet.... and I'm NOT a racer.
Hopefully I will get the opportunity to try them in a "road" application

**Shaun** · 1st January 2010, 09:36

Originally Posted by Pussy

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not saying this is the case with Ohlins NIX 30mm cartridges... but sometimes what is "in vogue" isn't necessarily just the duck's guts.
Several years ago I had Traxxion kits fitted to my K1 GSX-R1000 (the same kits went in to my K3). Short top out springs were flavour of the day. In my opinion, they sucked! Contrary to the belief of some, I don't hang on every word of the experts. So I asked RT to get rid of the short top out springs he had fitted. There was a bit of "are you sure you really want this?" asked of me, but I wanted the longer stock ones back in, so that's what I got.
Some time later short springs went out of favour.
I'm no expert rider, but DO know what I like the handling characteristics of my bike to feel like.
Don't be afraid to tell your suspension guy what you want!

Edit: I haven't ridden on the 30mm cartridges yet.... and I'm NOT a racer.
Hopefully I will get the opportunity to try them in a "road" application

30mm kit, Febuary you will get to try a set from one of my race bikes, since we are local