Next BIG Protest with StoneY and the Unions

[Conquiztador]

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Those correlate pretty well to BRONZ's position : which is

• No cc split
• bikes not a separate class, all private motor vehciles in together
• Abolition of full funding (because if bikes have to full fund, it's arithmetically impossible for our levies to come down)
• And a fairer way of charging the levy

technically, that would be compatible with privatisation of ACC delivery. Whether an insurance company would want to buy into it on those terms might be another matter.

So lets pick one that gets our fire burning and then go for it! You try to do all those together and the average biker gets confused.

How bout a "Get rid of Smitty" one. I know it would not make a big difference. But would unite all bikers! And then the more dedicated ones could try and spread the bigger message.

[MSTRS:Me]

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... we can never really know for certain . But I'd say that what he plannd in the first place was to reduce Mr Judges demands by $100 , same as cars. So, what we won was the extra $200 reduction above that. Still not enough, though. We should pay the same as cars.

What you say has the ring of reality about it. So we did win something. Good. But we didn't 'win' enough. So we will be back again. And again. Until we get what is fair. Or a change of govt hands Goff the chance to back up his words.

[Ixion]

So lets pick one that gets our fire burning and then go for it! You try to do all those together and the average biker gets confused.

How bout a "Get rid of Smitty" one. I know it would not make a big difference. But would unite all bikers! And then the more dedicated ones could try and spread the bigger message

Complex issue, though. And, like it or not, it *is* political. And not just bikers.

Simply, no way on earth do motorcyclists alone have the clout to get anything changed, except maybe our own levy.

So , any of those issues (except maybe no-cc-split) , we need allies. That's actually why we put the no-cc-split one in. If we got the "no separate motorcycle classification", then the no-cc-split becomes irrelevant. But no-cc-split is a "bike only" thing, so we can fight that front without allies.

For the rest, motorcyclists on their own won't make any difference at all . And, sorry, but no way on earth do we have the clout to get a Minister dismissed (unless someone can set up a honey trap with a goat ?)

Hence , we need to work with Labour and the Greens. The latter support no full funding. Labour, might be able to be convinced. Strategically, it would make total sense for Labour to support a non-full-funded model. Since they are committed to no privatisation, full funding has no advantage for them. And it would give them a clear distinction to National. At present, there's really bugger all difference between Labour ACC policies and National's. A matter of details and attitude, not of policy.

And we need to try to win AA support - either by pleading or by threatening, whichever will work. AA can (maybe) support non-full-funding. And if we want bikes lumped in with cars, AA opposition would be fatal.

So, picking one isn't that easy. None of them are an easy win. The *only* one we can win on our own (even with difficulty) is the no-cc-split. But, that just moves the pain around. We need to get rid of it, to prevent big bikes being targeted in the future. But here and now, it doesn't directly help much.

The rest all need support- so it's a matter of figuring where and how we can get it. And that dynamic has changed a bit since Tuesday, I think.

[StoneY]

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The rest all need support- so it's a matter of figuring where and how we can get it. And that dynamic has changed a bit since Tuesday, I think.

Damn right it has.

Card carrying Labour member or not I was pissed off at the turnout from our 'big ally'

Greens and Labour really stood up, Phil's speech amd Materia's speech both got the blood moving, both made good sense, both promised to make sure its returned to the public, so thats technically one major breakthrough. Theyre on record now with those promises, but they still need to win an election before that means didly squat

Now...better get the hell out of here before Cherry B comes nad bashes me for not 'resting'

[Ixion]

My concern here would be that Labour analysts may say "Well, the ACC thing doesn't seem to be getting traction. Even our own supporters can't be bothered with it, let alone it winning us any votes. Flag it away and concentrate on something else". Greens might too, though less likely they tend to be a bit , "different".

[Conquiztador]

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My concern here would be that Labour analysts may say "Well, the ACC thing doesn't seem to be getting traction. Even our own supporters can't be bothered with it, let alone it winning us any votes. Flag it away and concentrate on something else". Greens might too, though less likely they tend to be a bit , "different".

Bikers in general do not want to be part of a political movement. We have an issue (or maybe two) that we do not like re how the country is run. Apart from that we could not give a shit re who is running this place. One issue was the proposed high ACC levies. We went to Welly to tell them that they better sort this or we be back. They did.

Now if you want the full support of bikers again, you need to reinvent that formula. Non-political (and I dont want a lecture in that this is political, as for the patched bikie and even me it was not! It was a simple "too fucking expensive, drop the price!), one issue that ALL bikers can feel strongly about.

The way I see it is to settle for that one issue, then start to drum up the support, and then re do it. Again and again and...

[MSTRS:Me]

Would you have felt differently, if you rode a 125cc bike? In which case, your levy would go down.
Yes, the high proposed levy was what got our attention...but ALL of the proposals were and are unfair - based as they are on lies, misinformation and dubious statistics. Really, we are fighting all of it, not just a single bit.

[Bald Eagle]

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The way I see it is to settle for that one issue, then start to drum up the support, and then re do it. Again and again and...

Yep we gotta eat the elephant a spoonful at a time, it's deciding which spoonful.

[BMWST?]

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Bikers in general do not want to be part of a political movement. We have an issue (or maybe two) that we do not like re how the country is run. Apart from that we could not give a shit re who is running this place. One issue was the proposed high ACC levies. We went to Welly to tell them that they better sort this or we be back. They did.

Now if you want the full support of bikers again, you need to reinvent that formula. Non-political (and I dont want a lecture in that this is political, as for the patched bikie and even me it was not! It was a simple "too fucking expensive, drop the price!), one issue that ALL bikers can feel strongly about.

The way I see it is to settle for that one issue, then start to drum up the support, and then re do it. Again and again and...

well do you think it is still to expensive?Forget about the other stuff.Would you(and the other bikers) come to Welly (or whatever) again for that? Even though there may be other ACC issues as well?

[StoneY]

I seriously think its time to close this thread and start an ongoing ACC discussion thread
Every time I see it title im disapointed....

When I was a Union rep MY union was willing to walk out, tools down, fight the battle we needed to fight.
Bikers stood up yet again on Tuesday, regardless of the issue(s)
Many good friends in the crowd, and some who.... well...tollerate me (LOL)

I was bitterly disapointed in the tiny numbers for the march but the Unions did do thier best with publicity, I still think it was the wrong approach should have been to the Delegates and got the word out on the floors and encouraged a negotiated stop work to attend (avoiding sickies for Mikes factory)

Been a lot of flaming, toing, froing, swapping opinions, but its just a clutter now so what say someone smarter than me starts a better suited thread for the future of this topic and the site admins just close this one, huh?

Salt and open wounds etc..........

[Bald Eagle]

New thread being started now

New thread here