South Auckland Street Skills

[nzspokes]

At the end of the day its the only real answer. You can read and watch every book, blog, video but unless you get your bum in the seat and get out and do it you will never master it. What was it Dora said "keep on swimming, just keep swimming" Good luck to all heading to Taupo this weekend. Weather does not sound the best so ride to the conditions.

Who is Dora?

Your right. Me and my CBX rode every second we could get away and I could afford petrol.

Just me and Sharry going down. weather is occasional showers. Will be fine.

[aws]

AWS, rule on the back protector. "It needs to be a hard shell and preferably articulated back protector. An in jacket one will be passed but not if it is simply a foam insert". But the comment was made that a proper Back protector is far safer and is the recommended option.

I've been doing a little bit of research on back protectors, and from what I can see it seems that the "hard shell" style of back protector is not the only way to skin a cat. It seems that reactive or intelligent polymers now form the basis of many of the higher performing protectors. Rather than using a hard shell and polystyrene to spread the loads, they use quite a dense foam that "hardens" on impact - rather like the way cornflower reacts to fast movement (look up non-Newtonian fluid). As well as providing top-notch impact protection, they soften when warm and conform to the users body shape, making them really comfortable too. While CE Level 2 back protectors need to transfer less than 9 KN in the standard test, some of the best ones can transfer less than 4 KN.

It's just my guess, but maybe in a few years these advanced materials will have taken over and we'll see hard plastic only used on the cheaper versions (if this does come to pass - just remember you heard it here first! )

What's been good about this issue coming up is that it has made me realise that I could be using high performance back protection in my existing jacket on my day-to-day commute for a relatively modest cost. The problem however is that the "soft" system I would choose for daily use may not be accepted at the track and I'd have to fork out triple the cash for a hard shell protector that provides less impact protection over a slightly larger area, and that I will only ever wear occasionally... What to do...? What to do....?

[nzspokes]

I have knee and elbow protection that's soft but hardens on impact so not new.

[nzspokes]

And as you're in textile, what is the abrasion resistance like? I wouldn't mind a lighter one.

[Big Dog]

Sounds like a spin off the latest gen of bullet body armour.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[aws]

I have knee and elbow protection that's soft but hardens on impact so not new.

Yeah, when I say new, I mean like in the last 5 or 6 years. But the materials are probably older than that - it seems like they probably came from the military - much like everything

[aws]

And as you're in textile, what is the abrasion resistance like? I wouldn't mind a lighter one.

I don't know that abrasion resistance really comes into it. From my reading, CE Level 2 certification is all about impact reduction and coverage. To be certified Level 2 it needs to transfer less than 9 kN and it needs to cover a certain portion of the back. I didn't see any comment on abrasion resistance. Also, some people express interest in whether the polymer back protectors have the same puncture resistance as plastic (in case they get a footpeg in the back). However Forcefield, commenting on their "Forcefield Pro Sub 4" noted that this type of impact is exceedingly rare, so it is not normally a consideration. And any footpeg would first have to penetrate the leather or Cordura jacket first - not an easy ask.

Another reason I don't think abrasion resistance is much of an issue is that jackets are typically not reinforced on the back. They use their strongest and most abrasion resistant materials on the shoulders and elbows, but often the back is just normal Cordura, or even mesh on an airflow jacket. So I think the whole back protector thing is more about absorbing the initial impact, or impact on obstacles, rather than providing a surface to slide on.

Having said that, the material is quite stiff when it is impacted and quite thick, so you'd need to wear through probably an inch or more of it whereas hard shell plastic would be maybe a couple of mm before you are into the EPS (polystyrene) core.

[nzspokes]

I don't know that abrasion resistance really comes into it. From my reading, CE Level 2 certification is all about impact reduction and coverage. To be certified Level 2 it needs to transfer less than 9 kN and it needs to cover a certain portion of the back. I didn't see any comment on abrasion resistance. Also, some people express interest in whether the polymer back protectors have the same puncture resistance as plastic (in case they get a footpeg in the back). However Forcefield, commenting on their "Forcefield Pro Sub 4" noted that this type of impact is exceedingly rare, so it is not normally a consideration. And any footpeg would first have to penetrate the leather or Cordura jacket first - not an easy ask.

Another reason I don't think abrasion resistance is much of an issue is that jackets are typically not reinforced on the back. They use their strongest and most abrasion resistant materials on the shoulders and elbows, but often the back is just normal Cordura, or even mesh on an airflow jacket. So I think the whole back protector thing is more about absorbing the initial impact, or impact on obstacles, rather than providing a surface to slide on.

Having said that, the material is quite stiff when it is impacted and quite thick, so you'd need to wear through probably an inch or more of it whereas hard shell plastic would be maybe a couple of mm before you are into the EPS (polystyrene) core.

As we are talking track day requirement, then a level of abrasion resistance is of significance if wearing textile. I believe textile is a one shot deal. My textiles when i slid after hitting a car were destroyed. That was at maybe 45kph. Knee burnt through to the pad, and jacket burnt on the elbow. Go for a slide on the track at say 100kph then you wont be re-using them.

Today a guy went down in front of my at about 80kph. Nice slide into the kitty litter. After finding a new lever blade he was back out. His leathers had minor scuffs. I noticed that most of the faster guys had scuffed leathers.

But for road use I would like a lighter back protector so if these polymer ones are any good I would take a look for sure. Thats why I got them for my knees and elbows in my leathers. I would not use a pocket type protector, it would have to be a strap type. As Sharry said, why protect only part of your back. And she is living proof.

[nzspokes]

It was a wee bit wet....

[nzspokes]

Nice little write up on tyre wear. Track based but the rules apply to road the same. At Sass my rear tyre should not have worn on the edges so this is a little test. Read the write up and tell me what is wrong with my setup on the rear tyre.

http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcycle-tyre-wear-guide/

[f2dz]

Bank account is crying at the moment. Pretty much got all new gear minus a helmet today

Got me a Tryonic back protector that's pretty good. I'll bring everything on Tuesday if it's not raining.

Pity about the weather in Taupo, Rob. Keen to hear about how it went though.

[nzspokes]

Bank account is crying at the moment. Pretty much got all new gear minus a helmet today

Got me a Tryonic back protector that's pretty good. I'll bring everything on Tuesday if it's not raining.

Pity about the weather in Taupo, Rob. Keen to hear about how it went though.

Was a good day all in all. Learnt a ton. Got the bike setup close. Bike has great power.

Tuesday looks good. I will be hanging off the bike a lot. Not because Im going fast but because I need to build the strength to do it. Got tired but in saying that Taupo has 14 corners in 2.2ks I think they said. Hampton has 6.

[nzspokes]

Nice little write up on tyre wear. Track based but the rules apply to road the same. At Sass my rear tyre should not have worn on the edges so this is a little test. Read the write up and tell me what is wrong with my setup on the rear tyre.

http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcycle-tyre-wear-guide/

Managed to get a good shot of it so we can look at it now. What do you guys think is happening here?

[aws]

As we are talking track day requirement, then a level of abrasion resistance is of significance if wearing textile. I believe textile is a one shot deal. My textiles when i slid after hitting a car were destroyed. That was at maybe 45kph. Knee burnt through to the pad, and jacket burnt on the elbow. Go for a slide on the track at say 100kph then you wont be re-using them.

Today a guy went down in front of my at about 80kph. Nice slide into the kitty litter. After finding a new lever blade he was back out. His leathers had minor scuffs. I noticed that most of the faster guys had scuffed leathers.

But for road use I would like a lighter back protector so if these polymer ones are any good I would take a look for sure. Thats why I got them for my knees and elbows in my leathers. I would not use a pocket type protector, it would have to be a strap type. As Sharry said, why protect only part of your back. And she is living proof.

Been doing a bit more reading on this whole back protector caper and it seems they don't really do what most people think they do. It seems that the manufacturers don't actually say that a back protector will help prevent a spinal injury, but they don't exactly set the record straight either. The Motorcycle Council of NSW has some very useful information on protective gear on their website http://roadsafety.mccofnsw.org.au/a/75.html (see link near the bottom - No 8. Impact Protectors).

Based on accident research some 13% of people sustain a back injury in a crash, but only 1% due to a direct spinal impact. Most spinal injuries are caused by overextension, bending or twisting of the spine caused by impacts to the head or side - not something a back protector can help you with. However experts still recommend using a back protector since they do reduce muscle strains and bruising.

There is lots of other really interesting and useful information on the site - and they aren't afraid to point out that there are some things that no protective gear can save you from - such as hitting objects at high speed. Something I found really interesting is how much variety there is in the quality of basic gear (jackets and pants), how many would fail CE testing and how even leather garments aren't immune. I was really surprised at how many leather garments would fail testing - and not necessarily the cheap ones. The biggest problem appears to be inadequate seams bursting. It appears that it is quite difficult to get a jacket to pass CE testing so a lot of manufacturers don't bother - they list EN 1621-1 and EN 1621-2, but this is the armour rather than the garment - EN 13595 is the certification for the jacket. Anyway, have a read for yourselves... I'll certainly be taking a bit more interest next time I buy gear.

[Gremlin]

Most spinal injuries are caused by overextension, bending or twisting of the spine caused by impacts to the head or side - not something a back protector can help you with. However experts still recommend using a back protector since they do reduce muscle strains and bruising.

I suggest you know a bit more about back protectors before you start casting your opinion as fact. My back protector has interlocking plates that will prevent hyperextension of the spine.

I also love how you seem to think they don't do anything, when actually, they do... but hey, it's your spine.