Diesel oil engine flush?

[Owl]

A Really good tip is to also add a tea bag (new) per litre of oil to the engine oil, the tanins in the tea enhance the oil quality and bring a soothing effect to the lubrication qualities, but dont use Bell etc, use Dilma, its the best.
I got a mate that has been doing this for years and he swears by it

Wouldn't it be easier to just spoon some loose tea in through the oil filler?

[imdying]

OMG.........Why do people think they know it all to the point of discarding manufacturer recommendations and Oil companies advise.

Swingarm on my bike has a sticker that says 36psi front and 42psi rear, with or without a passenger, handles better at lower pressures... what of it?

[Quasievil]

Wouldn't it be easier to just spoon some loose tea in through the oil filler?

Good point, but I prefer the convenience of the tea bag personally

[Quasievil]

Swingarm on my bike has a sticker that says 36psi front and 42psi rear, with or without a passenger, handles better at lower pressures... what of it?

do you expect me to have an answer to that mate?

[imdying]

do you expect me to have an answer to that mate?

Of course not, it's just an example of the manufacturers recommendations not always being the best choice. As far as lubricants go, no 85 GSXR750 manual could ever recommend the pick (for it) of the current crop of lubricants, they didn't even exist when it was written!

[LBD]

There is soooo much misinformation in this thread too. Who here can tell me the chemical composition of a diesel engine oil and a bike oil? And what the differences are? ( shaddup Quasi! )

The single biggest difference is...(and this is a big generalisztion)...High performance motorcycle oils will be synthetic...Most common Diesel oils are mineral based. (another good reason not to mix the two as they can react and turn jelly like)

Mineral based oils are refined out of the ground. Synthetic oils are POA's (Polyalphaolifins).....there are also part synthetic or Isosyn oils, which are a blend of the two. Because a full synthetic is fully manufactured, it is not subject to the contaminants or performance limitations of a mineral oil.

The viscosity of a synthetic remains more constant as the temperature of the oil changes.

The structure of a synthetic base is engineered to suit an application...lower internal friction means less friction in an engine, meaning less fuel (or more power). I have read an article that concluded the extra cost of a synthetic is more than offset by the fuel savings..(Mining fleet)

Either mineral or synthetic oil requires an additive package, which makes up some 20% give or take, of the final mix.
Additives include....Detergents, friction modifiers, anti foaming agents, corrosion inhibitors, viscosity modifiers, dispersants, anti wear, anti scuffing etc....

Tea leaves are only added to synthetics for colouring.

[Woodman]

If you read back like I suggested, you would see that I had never done it on a road bike. I don't think you are interested in what was said at all - I think you are only interested in an opportunity to be a derogatory dickhead. You would be far better served to take note from people who had done things rather to show off your foolish mouth.

Steve

I think someone needs to add a bit of fibre to their diet.

Anyway, what i was trying to say was that their is no way I would ever put diesel in my bikes crankcase. Nor would I recommend it to anyone on the basis of experience on one pitbike.

Listen to Quasi he knows stuff

[Flip]

There are 2 sorts of diesel lube oils.

The ones that you can buy at Repco which are usually "low ash" referring to the sort and strength of chemicals used for the detergents. These almost always have dual Petrol and Diesel ratings. These are light diesel lubricating oils. The oil industry call these when sold in larger workshop pack sizes mixed fleet lubes.
The ones you can't usually get at repco are high ash content oils these are heavy diesel oils, like train and big ass ship motor oils. These are not petrol motor oils. Too thick and have the wrong additive package. I would not run these in a petrol motor.

Most Petrol oils have dual S and C classification, like Mobil 1, that has been tested and is approved as both a light diesel lube oil and as a petrol motor oil. Mobil 1 is marketed as a very high quality performance petrol lube oil (and it is), but Mobil don't advertise that the stuff can go in a dirty old diesel motors. Because then Mobil 1 is also a dirty old diesel motor oil and why would anybody pay $20 a liter for dirty old diesel motor oil. The oil companies think this confuses the buying public and dilutes Mobil's advertising message and they are right.

I buy the best quality oil I can get at the best price. I use a lot of motor oil, I change my oils very often, I try to use only one oil in almost all my vehicles and it an oil I can get at locally any repco-super cheap store. I won't buy some obscure specialized motor oil, because if I need some on a trip its going to be impossible to find and I won't pay $20 a liter for a product that I don't need. I usually buy a Valvolene motor oil in 10 and 20 liter commercial containers that has a high API SI rating but also is approved for use diesel motors. It's marketed as a commercial mixed fleet lube. If I do all 3 oils in my V8 landrover it takes 11 liters of motor oil and about 3.5 liters of gear oil, and I do this every time I drive through deep water. The Valvolene only cost me $4.50 a liter, the fact that it is also a good car and bike oil is just a bonus. To me the cost benefit ratio of these oils is very high.

[LBD]

There are 2 sorts of diesel lube oils.

The ones that you can buy at Repco which are usually "low ash" referring to the sort and strength of chemicals used for the detergents. .

Ash has no direct relation to additive package, "ash" refers to the residue left when a portion of the oil is burnt, low ash will leave little residue and high ash will will leave noticably more residue....indirectly, the additives package will be adjusted to manage the impurities (ash forming) in the oil.

High ash oils leave greater deposits inside your engine than low ash. Ash and in particular sulfated ash can be acid forming and corrosive in your engine. Mineral oils are higher ash oils.

Industrial diesel oils will tend to be high ash mainly due to the economies of scale....ie if I was to buy 3 million liters of synthetic oil or premium low ash mineral oils per annum, instead of regular mineral oil, I would have a to face an accountants inquisition.

[pete376403]

The single biggest difference is...(and this is a big generalisztion)...High performance motorcycle oils will be synthetic...Most common Diesel oils are mineral based. (another good reason not to mix the two as they can react and turn jelly like)

Mineral based oils are refined out of the ground. Synthetic oils are POA's (Polyalphaolifins).....there are also part synthetic or Isosyn oils, which are a blend of the two. Because a full synthetic is fully manufactured, it is not subject to the contaminants or performance limitations of a mineral oil..

Not trying to be picky or anything but... where do the chemicals that synthetics manufactured of come from?

Oil threads, eh? Countries have gone to war over less.

[jonbuoy]

There is soooo much misinformation in this thread too. Who here can tell me the chemical composition of a diesel engine oil and a bike oil? And what the differences are? ( shaddup Quasi! )

Don´t know the exact differences but I was under the impression it was the ZDDP content being lowered in modern engine oils that was the issue with cam and follower wear? Maybe Quasi can shed some light?

[LBD]

Not trying to be picky or anything but... where do the chemicals that synthetics manufactured of come from?.

The raw materials for PAO's are same as mineral oil but are processed completely different. I am no chemist so to quote wiki....A polyolefin is a polymer produced from a simple olefin (also called an alkene with the general formula CnH2n) as a monomer. For example, polyethylene is the polyolefin produced by polymerizing the olefin ethylene. An equivalent term is polyalkene; this is a more modern term, although polyolefin is still used in the petrochemical industry.

Don´t know the exact differences but I was under the impression it was the ZDDP content being lowered in modern engine oils that was the issue with cam and follower wear? Maybe Quasi can shed some light.

ZDDP...Zinc is an anti scuffing agent...popular in hydraulic oils.(Cat specify a minimum 900ppm Zinc (ZDDP) in hydraulic oil for pump longijevity..ZDDP is only a contributing factor if the oil/machinery design fails to maintain an oil film thickness between moving components.

[Quasievil]

I posted this on another oil thread, still relevant so enjoy

Im not an engineer but have access to them and I have been extensively trained by Mobil etc.

The official word is this, for bikes use bike oil (not car oil) for cars use Car oil not bike oil and so on............easy eh !
Mobil certainly wont endorse any car oil in bike scenario, because some engineer some where decided it was ok.

For your bike Magicmonkey I would have thought (from our range) a Mobil Extra 4T 10w-40 a semi synthetic.

But there are plenty of options out there.

If I can explain the differences between Mineral and sythetic oils for you in a easy easy way, think of it like this

The oil they use to make your engine oil (the raw oil) is called Basestock, Basestocks have different groups, group 1 to group 5, each group has different levels of quality the higher grades are used for synthetics and the lower grades are used for mineral based oil as well as a host of other things.
These are extracted in a refinery tower , lower basestock grades are taken from the lower/mid part and higher basestock grades from the top, the top tower basestocks are generally gas.




So know you understand this

the higher base stocks are gas and the PAO (polyalpholefin) is used to make synthetic oil, the advantage of this PAO as a basestock is this.........All the molecules are exactly the same size, please think of a row of marbles in a line all the same size)

The lower Basestock grades disadvantage is this.........all the molecules a different sizes (think of a beach ball, a volley ball, a rugby ball, and a few umbrellas)

now imagine this

Between the two surfaces of your engine, i.e. the piston and the cylinder, the temperature between these surfaces is very very hot (naturally) so to stop them fusing together and melting (and a heap of other things) we cool the engine with coolants etc but most importantly OIL

now Imagine this

To keep the two surfaces oiled so they stay lubricated and run over each of there surfaces in the most efficient way, which of the two oils will do it better ?????

1. A row of marbles of the same size?
2. Abeach ball, a volley ball, a rugby ball, and a few umbrellas

Clearly the answer is number one !!! (Mobil 1 read later)

Ok so with this smooth efficent running of your engine what are the advantages?

Higher Viscosity index.........reduces engine wear at temp extremes
Low temp performance...... Oil gets to where its needed faster
Lower volitilty .................... Reduced oil consumption
Increased Oxidative stability...... slows down the rate of oil thickening

so these give you avantages like, less Friction.......less friction means less energy........means less gas used......higher efficency......longer engine life (the list goes on and on but you get the point)

So why Mobil 1, it is the worlds leader in Synthetic technology.........we can legally say that as its true!!

Since the Castrol vs Mobil case in the states where Castrol decided to market Mineral oil as Synthetic (they won WTF) many companies now offer a synthetic option which is highly refined beach balls rugby balls and umbrellas, they are legally allowed to do this.

Mobil have stuck to the PAO for its base stock (I will note however some Mobil synthetics have a small group III content to balance the additive packages)

Anyway I hope that helps you understand oil a bit better.
www.qmoto.co.nz

[Flip]

Ash has no direct relation to additive package, "ash" refers to the residue left when a portion of the oil is burnt, low ash will leave little residue and high ash will will leave noticably more residue....indirectly, the additives package will be adjusted to manage the impurities (ash forming) in the oil.

High ash oils leave greater deposits inside your engine than low ash. Ash and in particular sulfated ash can be acid forming and corrosive in your engine. Mineral oils are higher ash oils.

Industrial diesel oils will tend to be high ash mainly due to the economies of scale....ie if I was to buy 3 million liters of synthetic oil or premium low ash mineral oils per annum, instead of regular mineral oil, I would have a to face an accountants inquisition.

No it’s exactly the same. The oil industry call these low and high ash oils because the ash is what is left after the emulsifiers in the oil is burnt but it is the metals which are part of the emulsifiers oxidise to form the ash as in metal oxides. The oil and the organic components convert to carbon dioxide and water. As I said low ash oils are petrol and light diesel oil motors. High ash oils are for large diesel- bunker, HFO oil ship motors. High ash oils are very high in emulsifiers because they have to cope with very dirty bunker fuel oil. You won’t find these oils in use anywhere but in shipping industry and very big heavy motor industries.

If you don’t believe me burn some clean fat and some hand washing soap and see what you get. The soap is molecule made with sodium hydroxide and fat. The metal sodium at one end that likes water and a tail made of fat likes oil. When you burn these the fat converts to carbondioxide and water and the metal (sodium) oxidises to Sodium oxide which is an ash. Oils with lots of emulsifiers are called high ash because ash is a lot easier to say than emulsifiers.

[roadracingoldfart]

Many of you know me and what i do in life (fuck all ) lol.
I have used both diesel oil and pure pump diesel in cars and bikes that have suffered from a oil and coolant mixture issue.
Pump diesel is good for a few mins or more of idle to clean / loosen the sludge left by the moisture , flush and then run a part ratio of (so called) correct oil and diesel oil for a drive at medium revs to allow the filter to collect the balance the pump diesel loosened.
Then spin a new filter on and fill with oil till next scheduled change.
Every car service i do at work starts with putting a can of engine flush in and i have litterally done this thousands of tmes without a problem.

I have raced bikes now for many decades and since the mid 80s i have used a Castrol oil that is rated to both petrol and diesel engines, its also what we use for LPG dedicated Falcons. As it happens its also mandatory for the likes of FPV falcon V8s and Turbo inline 6s .
It was during the 80s the oil that was recommended by Honda and i have only ever suffered engine damage on the racebike when i was persuaded to use a so called proper motorcycle oil , i ran a crank main .

Never going to make that mistake again........

My 2 cents worth.

Paul.