Motorcycle accident myths - A public presentation on the facts

[shrub]

A detailed analysis of the New Zealand Ministry of Transport accident data questions the commonly held view of what is causing New Zealand’s motorcycle accidents

Where: The Cashmere Club
88 Hunter Tce

When: Tuesday 18th May
7:30 pm

Hear Associate Professor Charles (Charley) Lamb, Head Business Management, Law and Marketing – and Director Australasian Institute of Motorcycle Studies Project at Lincoln University.

“The largest single determinant of accidents is visibility issues affecting drivers of other vehicles involved in motorcycle accidents"

[shrub]

This is stuff we all know intuitively at least, let's hear what Professor Lamb has discovered in his extensive and detailed research.

[Ronin]

His speech at the protest ride was great. Is there any chance this could be videoed or a transcript made available for us that can't make it?

[shrub]

His speech at the protest ride was great. Is there any chance this could be videoed or a transcript made available for us that can't make it?

I'll ask Charley if that's possible.

[Usarka]

I can't fly out of mianus, but would love a transcript / video / audio etc.

Also, a couple of thoughts/questions if appropriate.

• Is it a visibility issue, or is it a threat perception issue?
• If there is data suggesting hi-vis reduces accidents, when was this dated (ie. was it after everyone working outside started wearing hi-vis due to osh requirements, or was it back when hi-vis = cop = threat)?

[Bad Gixxer]

In my view there is only one cause of virtually all accidents on the road, and that is simply having a very high level of incompetent and (virtually) untrained drivers. If we all had to go through say 30 hours of proper intensive skill based training to obtain a license in the first place, and then a compulsory 10 hours every 5 years to renew a license, then that would go a long way to improving our road toll.

It amazes me that the beurocrats are spending tens of millions of dollars to take bends out of roads that are supposedly "black spots". They can't take ALL the bends out of ALL the roads, so it seems pointless. Spend the money to teach drivers (of cars and bikes) how to go around a bend properly and safely. That would seem a better investment to me.

Isn't visibility of bikes just a symptom, and not a cause? A good example is visibility on say a transport yard - there are so many high viz jackets and signs around that the only bugger that stands out now is the one NOT wearing a vest. Same with driving lights in daytime, now it seems the only vehicles that stand out are the ones that DON'T have their lights on.

[R1madness]

Sounds good. I will be there. Hows life anyway mate? its been a while, you should come for a ride one sunday.

[glegge]

I'll ask Charley if that's possible.

or perhaps a web video/audio stream - or at the very least an audio stream if there is a slide pack?
either way - if someone had a video recorder and wanted to set it up, i think many people would be interested in watching this.

[bogan]

In my view there is only one cause of virtually all accidents on the road, and that is simply having a very high level of incompetent and (virtually) untrained drivers. If we all had to go through say 30 hours of proper intensive skill based training to obtain a license in the first place, and then a compulsory 10 hours every 5 years to renew a license, then that would go a long way to improving our road toll.

It amazes me that the beurocrats are spending tens of millions of dollars to take bends out of roads that are supposedly "black spots". They can't take ALL the bends out of ALL the roads, so it seems pointless. Spend the money to teach drivers (of cars and bikes) how to go around a bend properly and safely. That would seem a better investment to me.

Isn't visibility of bikes just a symptom, and not a cause? A good example is visibility on say a transport yard - there are so many high viz jackets and signs around that the only bugger that stands out now is the one NOT wearing a vest. Same with driving lights in daytime, now it seems the only vehicles that stand out are the ones that DON'T have their lights on.

Yeh I agree the amount of numpties on the roads is worrying to say the least, though having the capability to drive well in a test situation doesn't mean the driver will continue to pay attention and drive defensively normally, attitudes need to change to fix that. Though I reckon we do whatever Charles Lamb reckons, he seems like a smart cookie! +1 to the uploaded video idea.

[Katman]

It will be interesting to see what he says about the part that motorcyclists attitudes and riding manner contribute to the figures.

[shrub]

Sounds good. I will be there. Hows life anyway mate? its been a while, you should come for a ride one sunday.

It's been too long, but I've been stupidly busy buying houses, studying and trying to earn money and if I couldn't ride to Uni every day I'd go insane - when I went to bring my car to my new house there were cobwebs over the exhaust pipe and one tyre was half flat. A Sunday ride sounds bloody excellent

[Bass]

A

“The largest single determinant of accidents is visibility issues affecting drivers of other vehicles involved in motorcycle accidents"

Would be interested in hearing more also.
However, this excerpt implies pretty strongly that he is dealing with multi vehicle accidents.
My understanding is that in NZ anyway, about 45% of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle events. We seem to forget that in most of the accident statistic discussions on this site and in my opinion, it's a pretty damning number.

I wonder if it's the "Charley Lamb" that I grew up with.
He's not a tall skinny and mostly bald guy is he?

[shrub]

Would be interested in hearing more also.
However, this excerpt implies pretty strongly that he is dealing with multi vehicle accidents.
My understanding is that in NZ anyway, about 45% of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle events. We seem to forget that in most of the accident statistic discussions on this site and in my opinion, it's a pretty damning number.

I wonder if it's the "Charley Lamb" that I grew up with.
He's not a tall skinny and mostly bald guy is he?

That's our Charley Lamb. Ex Air Force currently a university professor and passionate about bikes.

[bogan]

Would be interested in hearing more also.
However, this excerpt implies pretty strongly that he is dealing with multi vehicle accidents.
My understanding is that in NZ anyway, about 45% of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle events. We seem to forget that in most of the accidents statistic discussions on this site and in my opinion, it's a pretty damning number.

yes but single vehicle accidents caused by what? rider error, speed, road conditions, mechanical failure, largest single determinant relies heavily on how you group the determinants.

[oldrider]

A detailed analysis of the New Zealand Ministry of Transport accident data questions the commonly held view of what is causing New Zealand’s motorcycle accidents

Where: The Cashmere Club
88 Hunter Tce

When: Tuesday 18th May
7:30 pm

Hear Associate Professor Charles (Charley) Lamb, Head Business Management, Law and Marketing – and Director Australasian Institute of Motorcycle Studies Project at Lincoln University.

“The largest single determinant of accidents is visibility issues affecting drivers of other vehicles involved in motorcycle accidents"

Thank you for posting that!

I shall seriously consider my options in order to try and get there and listen to him.

I do worry about these people and their statistics (and who pays for them) but he sounds like a biker friendly at least!

Does that mean that his findings can be disputed/dismissed as biased and meaningless by the anti-biker world in reply?

Can his address be recorded in some medium for those who are unable to be there to hear him?