ACC full of crap: caught with pants around the ankles!

[Rogue Rider]

Just viewed an article on 3 news re a statistics report investigated by a University Professor which highlights the clear misrepresentation of statistics against motorcycles and accidents.
His report shows that 40% of motorcycle accidents are caused by other vehicles, (including police cars lol).
His question was why does govt departments unfairly target motorcyclists when clearly the larger issue is driver education in those causing the accidents, he also slammed acc for there incredible hike in levy which is misrepresented grossly by user. User pays system would then highlight that cars be penalized a higher fee, and not motorcycles.
Acc spokesman came back with a figure of 25% of motorcycle accidents involved only one vehicle....... I wonder where that figure came from, a one month time frame or out of a hat whilst he was sipping a dble latte with his nob stroking cubical buddies........

[meowmix]

I was expecting a topic about this to pop up a few minutes earlier, bit slow eh?

Yea he pretty much gave a small summary of some of the ideas that have been tossed around here for the last bunch of months. I'm very glad it made it to the news and public eye from an authoritive figure. Lets hope the public payed attention.

[schrodingers cat]

Acc spokesman came back with a figure of 25% of motorcycle accidents involved only one vehicle....... I wonder where that figure came from, a one month time frame or out of a hat whilst he was sipping a dble latte with his nob stroking cubical buddies........

There are lies, damn lies and statistics...

[thepom]

Needs to be put out there louder.....

[AllanB]

whilst he was sipping a dble latte with his nob stroking cubical buddies........

Free coffee and a hand job - now that's the way to make a happy work environment!

Statistics are funny things - able to be twisted to suit the user.

ACC - piff it's been broken for a long time.

[Katman]

His report shows that 40% of motorcycle accidents are caused by other vehicles, (including police cars lol).
His question was why does govt departments unfairly target motorcyclists when clearly the larger issue is driver education in those causing the accidents,

So if 60% of motorcycle accidents are caused by the motorcyclist how can driver education be the larger issue?

[bogan]

this is nothing new, those figures were found once we started investigating acc's claims at the time the levies were introduced. education of both drivers and riders is the way to go

[Hitcher]

Bogan is right. ACC officials aren't interested in anything the likes of Prof Charley may put forward. They've made their minds up and will be unshakeable in their resolve. The media aren't really interested in this story as they have a view that bikers are largely a bunch of blue-collar, Labour-voting oiks. "New Zealand's Best Mullet" is likely to get better media coverage than this issue.

There was a window of opportunity open briefly at the time of last year's campaign but that has now firmly closed. ACC will be back for the remaining levy increase they "conceded" last time at some stage over the next couple of years.

[mashman]

So if 60% of motorcycle accidents are caused by the motorcyclist how can driver education be the larger issue?

why 60%? The ACC guy says 25% are single vehicle and that couldn't be anything to do with loose seal or cow shit or oil or diesel or bit of debris falling from trailers or anything else could it? Perhaps our fuck up stats are lower than you think Katman? But completely agree with bogan, tis a 2 way street so to speak and all concerned need educated or their attitude checked... but you can never know for sure which needs attention and only 1 is truly possible

[Berries]

Acc spokesman came back with a figure of 25% of motorcycle accidents involved only one vehicle....... I wonder where that figure came from, a one month time frame or out of a hat whilst he was sipping a dble latte with his nob stroking cubical buddies........

I wouldn't argue with that figure for bikes. What made me laugh though is that a significant proportion of car crashes are single vehicle only, so I wonder what the figure is for those ? I wouldn't be surprised if it is around the same amount, meaning the statement was completely irrelevant.

With Katman on the other issue. If 40% of crashes are caused by the other vehicle then, if my maths is right, the majority aren't. Don't know how you can then swap that around and state that the minority is the bigger problem.

[Katman]

why 60%? The ACC guy says 25% are single vehicle and that couldn't be anything to do with loose seal or cow shit or oil or diesel or bit of debris falling from trailers or anything else could it?

So how do you propose we get those that can do something about those things to listen to us?

'Cos all I can hear from the powers that be is little more than contempt filled sniggering.

Perhaps an attitude shift among motorcyclists might go some way towards convincing them that we have real concerns that need addressing.

[bogan]

I wouldn't argue with that figure for bikes. What made me laugh though is that a significant proportion of car crashes are single vehicle only, so I wonder what the figure is for those ? I wouldn't be surprised if it is around the same amount, meaning the statement was completely irrelevant.

With Katman on the other issue. If 40% of crashes are caused by the other vehicle then, if my maths is right, the majority aren't. Don't know how you can then swap that around and state that the minority is the bigger problem.

I spose one thing, is thats the 40% the rider can't do fuck all about, for the other 60%, just don't set off the fuckwit detector and you'll be fine

The flip side of that is educate 2.5million drivers for 40% of accidents, or 200,000 riders for 60% and it is no wonder we are being targetted.

However, targeting us through our wallet and subverting the ACC principals are still complete BS, see you at the beehive for the next one

EDIT think charley is doing his presentation tomorow night so hopefully we'll get some more comprehensive stats from that

[Katman]

I spose one thing, is thats the 40% the rider can't do fuck all about,

That's a pretty sad approach.

Of those 40% of accidents caused by the other vehicle I bet there is a large percentage that the motorcyclist could have done something about.

[bogan]

That's a pretty sad approach.

Of those 40% of accidents caused by the other vehicle I bet there is a large percentage that the motorcyclist could have done something about.

a very good point, I really should have thought of that as I do ride that way, a lot of cars give off subtle signals (creeping at intersections, drivers looking elsewhere, not behaving as if they know other traffic is around....) that there's a numpty behind the wheel (well more so) which have kept me from having to do a hard stop or evasion, perhaps even stopped me binning

[JMemonic]

What the ACC guy said was that the good Prof's figures were wrong and the majority of crashes were single vehicle only he then said their figures indicated that 25% of all motorcycle accidents were single vehicle accidents.

Now I could be wrong but when I went to school 25% is not a majority or perhaps that was why I failed school c.

Of course the true figures would be interesting to see, but if what he stated, and I am sure I heard it right, is correct in 75% of other cases there is another vehicle involved, that info of course does not take into account as to who is at fault and nor should it as ACC is a no fault system. It would be interesting to discover of the solo crashes how many of them had contributing factors like loose gravel or diesel on the road.

There will be some here who will regardless of information bang on that any collision involving motorcyclist is the fault of the rider blah blah etc etc, they can in my humble opinion go fornicate themselves with a fish fork, my last collision there was nothing I could have done to avoid the incident and the driver of the car that hit me admitted as much.