When is "cordura" not Cordura?

[Quasievil]

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quasi slags 1tonne off every chance he gets

If you knew how to read you would see Again, I didnt start it, I finished it with a few facts, which according to Dupont are facts, what ??? you dont think I do my homework ??

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It's BORING

Yet you always seem to get involved which highlights your agenda.

[Quasievil]

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Gee that seems a bit unfair. I have been following the thread and don't believe Quasi is to blame. I started a parallel line of discussion in the thread concerning the merits of textile jackets which took it a little off topic. I believe it was that line of discussion that Quasi was addressing when he made his post about tardme traders.

See for yourself below;






Maybe not a necessary post (but how many KB posts really are) but certainly not slagging anyone or their product off.





I don't believe for a minute that the above statement isn't factual. There were enough posts in the thread discussing (non manufacturer specific) performance of textile gear in general terms. The above quote was relevant and factual to those posts. Name a thread at KB that has ever being strictly on topic. I can understand why 1 Tonne might have misinterpreted the post but not how. It was pretty obvious to non emotive readers that it was not directed at 1 Tonne.



I don't know about other threads which may or may not support the above accusations but on the merits of this thread in isolation, this post appears unwarranted and where it started to get personal

Quasi probably felt compelled to address the accusations and somewhat understandably stepped it up but he certainly didn't start it.

Thank god someone knows how to read on this site

[Gizzit]

is that a 'seller of inferior gear' .... isn't doing very well selling 'rubbish gear' (that's my opinion, having owned & crashed in it, and having the stitching come apart).
This same seller said I must have had some direct impact on the seam, for it to come undone under my arm. I didn't have any impact there, it just split open with stress !!

My wife's leather trousers bought from this seller, and used once, then had the stitching come apart on one of the lower leg zips! The garment was only worn once, and she had tried it on before buying it. The fit was fine, it was just poorly made.

Since taking this seller to task on KB, about the continual slagging off of other peoples gear, I have had other KB members send me private emails saying how poor this particular sellers gear is, and that they have had stitching come apart, and on one garment, more than once.

Initially I bought into the hype on here, and I had supported this seller on this site.

However, this seller continues to try and affect the rights of other sellers here, by preventing them from selling good quality gear, without this seller harassing them. I find this kind of dirty tactic SHOULD be below the dignity and integrity of most 'business people' (I use that term loosely for this seller).It shows a total lack of business acumen and professionalism.

The scales need to be balanced!

This person chooses to denigrate other suppliers of quality gear, with the obvious intention to some how elevate their own gear, by trying to stupidly rubbish the opposition. Most intelligent people can see right through those kind of tactics .....
I can only deduce from this sellers comments on here, that their business is no longer that good.
The problem is .... you need to sell QUALITY gear yourself, to get continued support for your products ..... not stooping once again, to trying to prevent opposition from selling their gear, by trying to sabotage them.

I think that there should be equal rights and opportunities for ALL seller's of quality gear on this site, without any further pathetic, low grade comments.

Here's a novel idea !!! Why not GROW UP ..... and move on !! STOP this rubbish for good on here.

I don't visit this site much any more, and this is mostly why .... I can't be bothered with this kind of rubbish.

[p.dath]

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If you knew how to read you would see Again, I didnt start it, I finished it with a few facts, which according to Dupont are facts, what ??? you dont think I do my homework ??

We know you do your homework as this is your field. You are a professional in it.

You do realise that DuPoint haven't owned the Cordura brand name since 2004?

And before then the actual definition of Cordura has been changed several times. In the early years "Cordura" was originally a yarn used in car tyres. When DuPoint was involved with the product they re-used the Cordura trade mark to sell all sorts of things. Most of the Cordura product line has nothing to do with Motorcycle safety garments.

Cordura is almost a generic trademark. I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the trademark in a court challenge on this basis if anyone bothered.

http://www2.dupont.com/Heritage/en_U...s/condura.html

[Quasievil]

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We know you do your homework as this is your field. You are a professional in it.

You do realise that DuPoint haven't owned the Cordura brand name since 2004?

And before then the actual definition of Cordura has been changed several times. In the early years "Cordura" was originally a yarn used in car tyres. When DuPoint was involved with the product they re-used the Cordura trade mark to sell all sorts of things. Most of the Cordura product line has nothing to do with Motorcycle safety garments.

Cordura is almost a generic trademark. I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the trademark in a court challenge on this basis if anyone bothered.

http://www2.dupont.com/Heritage/en_U...s/condura.html

Invista have the CORDURA® brand now, for ease I used the word Dupont, but yes your right. according to the Cordura brand manager Tim Anson European CORDURA® Brand business manager, they are very much interested in protecting the brand.
Cordura remains a proprietary product, my comment about fake cordura (spawned from the technical disscussions we where having earlier) remains.

[1tonne]

Point made Quassi. I understand.
Even though our garments are CORDURA, I do not have the rights to use the name as the name of the material that I use belongs to someone else.
I thought that I was allowed to use the name CORDURA as the material is cordura. Like Denim is Denim. anyone can use Denim. The fact that it is owned by INVISTA means I will happily change the name.
The fact that we cannot use the word cordura does not take away from the fact that our gear is great quality and NZ's best value for money.
Thanks Quassi for pointing this out to me. Cheers.

[Quasievil]

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Point made Quassi. I understand.
Even though our garments are CORDURA, .

If you use Cordura then you dont need to change at all, you are entitled to use the name, as you use the product. But you would be interested to know that Cordura makes the following motorcycle products,
Cordura ballistic,
Cordura Classic
Cordura Lite ?

none of the denier ratings you advertise are available in these Cordura motorcycle products, so check the rating they are giving you and advertise it right in line with the Cordura product denier listings, ie

Balistic is

470
700
940
1170
1400

Classic is
88
180
265
370
560
770
810
1080
1110

Lite (which I doubt but it is)
235
350
470
700

if you want to check that your maker is being honest with you, pm me and I will give you the Invistas company reps contact details

[spacemonkey]

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Don't worry there are a few people that seem to this on KB. I wont bother supporting people/companies who indulge in such behaviour and I know alot of my mates feel the same way!



The why bother with your tirade in THIS thread about 1tonne? hmm?

Pretty much sum's up my opinion of the matter.... I've had a look at quasi's gear that friends ride in, it seems at first glance to be of an acceptable standard. However quasi's consistant slagging off of guys like 1tonne or posting in a manner that creates that impression means that I wouldn't ever buy his products.
I'd still consider 1tonnes though.

[Biggles08]

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Pretty much sum's up my opinion of the matter.... I've had a look at quasi's gear that friends ride in, it seems at first glance to be of an acceptable standard. However quasi's consistant slagging off of guys like 1tonne or posting in a manner that creates that impression means that I wouldn't ever buy his products.
I'd still consider 1tonnes though. :yes:

Well I've stayed silent long enough on this thread....

This sort of shit pisses me off...their is information and misinformation. I personally know Quasi and he sponsors me as a racer....there you have it, my loyalties lay out in the open.

1tonne gear to me seems likely that it is a decent brand of gear of decent quality also but have had no experience with it and hence cannot make any relevant comment on it. WHAT PISSES ME OFF is people miss-quoting other people like this quote here?! Have another read of this thread from the beginning...Quasi never said anything in relation to 1tonne gear being "the cheap shit on TM" he was merely pointing out what the differences were between 'REAL' Codura and fake.

HOWEVER, If 1tonne gear is not real CODURA as it appears it isn't (by your own admission), then I think Quasi has a right to point it out...even though that wasn't the original reason for his post. 1tonne, I believe you have done yourself a disservice by arguing and getting personal (maybe from history with Quasi I'm not sure why) here about this point as people have the right to know EXACTLY what your product is made out of. If it is CODURA then there is no problem you stating it. If it is something other than CODURA you should be upfront about what it is and the benefits it has over CODURA and sell it as it is...your product (Exactly what you were saying Quasi should be doing).

Like I have said, I'm definitely not bagging 1tonne products, I am only standing up for Quasi's right as a supplier of leather product's to challenge ANYONE using a branded product inaccurately.

There is no benefit for Quasi to challenge opposition products unless there is a reason. In fact, he admires Sam from Celtic Leathers as a good manufacturer and I know they have a good working relationship regardless of the fact that they are opposition to each other.

As for the quality of Quasi gear, I 100% believe and endorse his products as being equal if not superior to ANY protective gear on the market today - This is why I CHOSE HIS PRODUCTS over all the other brands available! I've personally had some impressive offs while wearing his products and KNOW they are top quality! Check out this pic from the Nats this year...got up with not one injury (bruising sure) from this crash...landed squarely on my shoulder too...

[p.dath]

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HOWEVER, If 1tonne gear is not real CODURA as it appears it isn't (by your own admission), then I think Quasi has a right to point it out...even though that wasn't the original reason for his post. 1tonne, I believe you have done yourself a disservice by arguing and getting personal (maybe from history with Quasi I'm not sure why) here about this point as people have the right to know EXACTLY what your product is made out of. If it is CODURA then there is no problem you stating it. If it is something other than CODURA you should be upfront about what it is and the benefits it has over CODURA and sell it as it is...your product (Exactly what you were saying Quasi should be doing).

And that's the tricky bit. Many people manufacture nylon the same as the trademark Cordura material. It can be the same manufacturing process, but is obviously not licenced to use the Cordura trademark. So although it does not bear the Cordura trademark, it is not necessarily any different.

It's kinda like comparing an OEM oil filter to a third party oil filter made to the same specifications as the OEM one.

[vindy500]

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Well I've stayed silent long enough on this thread....

This sort of shit pisses me off...their is information and misinformation. I personally know Quasi and he sponsors me as a racer....there you have it, my loyalties lay out in the open.

1tonne gear to me seems likely that it is a decent brand of gear of decent quality also but have had no experience with it and hence cannot make any relevant comment on it. WHAT PISSES ME OFF is people miss-quoting other people like this quote here?! Have another read of this thread from the beginning...Quasi never said anything in relation to 1tonne gear being "the cheap shit on TM" he was merely pointing out what the differences were between 'REAL' Codura and fake.

HOWEVER, If 1tonne gear is not real CODURA as it appears it isn't (by your own admission), then I think Quasi has a right to point it out...even though that wasn't the original reason for his post. 1tonne, I believe you have done yourself a disservice by arguing and getting personal (maybe from history with Quasi I'm not sure why) here about this point as people have the right to know EXACTLY what your product is made out of. If it is CODURA then there is no problem you stating it. If it is something other than CODURA you should be upfront about what it is and the benefits it has over CODURA and sell it as it is...your product (Exactly what you were saying Quasi should be doing).

It just seems like as soon as anyone has something positive to say about any opposition to quasi hes straight in there bagging anything which isn't him. It all just seems a bit wrong, you wouldnt walk into a competitors shop and tell everyone to leave, go to your shop instead because your products are better(and more expensive) would you?

[Quasievil]

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And that's the tricky bit. Many people manufacture nylon the same as the trademark Cordura material. It can be the same manufacturing process, but is obviously not licenced to use the Cordura trademark. So although it does not bear the Cordura trademark, it is not necessarily any different.

It's kinda like comparing an OEM oil filter to a third party oil filter made to the same specifications as the OEM one.

A respected Trademark has a certain integrity that goes with it, to use your example of a oil filter, If I sell a Filter called "Bro filters" and market them as FORD oem filters then thats not right and its also illegal, which is potentially the same scenario if people are using the Cordura brand name and selling a copy.

[Quasievil]

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It just seems like as soon as anyone has something positive to say about any opposition to quasi hes straight in there bagging

Hardly get a grip

[Biggles08]

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And that's the tricky bit. Many people manufacture nylon the same as the trademark Cordura material. It can be the same manufacturing process, but is obviously not licenced to use the Cordura trademark. So although it does not bear the Cordura trademark, it is not necessarily any different.

It's kinda like comparing an OEM oil filter to a third party oil filter made to the same specifications as the OEM one.

That most likely is the case P.dath but I know its common in various industries. For EG, "plaster board" is commonly referred to as "Gib Board" in the building trade, however, all these 'equivalent' products KNOW that they cannot advertise that their product IS 'Gib Board' as it is not! In fact an opposition product called 'Elephant board' has fairly recently become synonymous in the building trade as an alternative to 'Gib Board' and has done so on their own back. Tell me why should the motorcycling industry be any different. If CODURA product is not used in 1Tonne products, he should not say it is! Simple...besides which, as Quasi has correctly pointed out, its the law!

Quasimoto has built his brand up over a period of time to what it is now "Q-Moto" and he stands beside his product as quality based on its own merits. He uses original "Knox" armor in his suits and states it. For a reference to this, what if an opposition were to sell their product as having original "knox" armor in it when in fact it was a rip off "knox" product. Would you expect Quasi to sit by and watch this pretend product be pushed onto unsuspecting punters without saying anything? I'm not suggesting another brand of armor is not as good as "knox" but if it is not "knox", don't call it that...likewise, if it is not CODURA don't call it that!

I would think that 1tonne would be smarter to do exactly what he has accused Quasimoto of doing and stand behind his own product for what it is, rather than using someone else's brand to promote his own. I'm pretty positive that its good gear, so stand up beside it for what it is... not CODURA.

[Biggles08]

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It just seems like as soon as anyone has something positive to say about any opposition to quasi hes straight in there bagging anything which isn't him. It all just seems a bit wrong, you wouldnt walk into a competitors shop and tell everyone to leave, go to your shop instead because your products are better(and more expensive) would you?

Wrong...ask Quasi about Celtic gear....go on!