Progression of a total motorcycle noob

[Old Steve]

Just found this thread, liked your initial post Grant.

But when I got to the video of the kneesliders through the gorge I thought WTF. It looked as if you were absolutely concentrating on getting your knee down and not focussing on the correct line through the corner. Time after time I saw mid-corner corrections and running wide. I was sorry to read you'd had your serious off, but maybe I wasn't surprised. Someone was on your side that day, and I'm thankfull you're still with us and prepared to share your experience with us.

Hope you can learn from this, I'd advise taking it a little quieter in future, get your cornering technique absolutely correct. The track day - you are looking at one aren't you - should help. A fraction of a second more through each corner isn't much compared to a life in a wheelchair or even in a box.

Take care. Less emphasis on touching the knee down and more on slow in, touch the apex correctly and smooth power out. Aim on becoming one of us older, nanny riders - my desire is to ride my bike until I'm justifiably shot at the age of 110 by a jealous husband. Like they said in WWII, there's bold pilots and old pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

[sidecar bob]

That's what an obsession with getting your knee down gets you.

And what a strange obsession it is.
Knee down on the road is basically public masturbation. It proves little more than the fact that you are a wanker.

[Grantman_]

May as well post these pics here to keep them in one spot.

For those that didn't read elsewhere, I was told I went between the front wheels of that logging truck.

Compared to several K's of twisty gorge Manfield was tame, but still the most fun I'd had since I could remember (trackday just prior to the accident).

[The_Duke]

..... I just don't get it.

Why have you STILL got a photo on the sig line of you with your knee down on a public road??

It makes you look like a) a tool, and b) like you haven't learned a thing from the crash!

Have you spoken to the truck driver at all? What if was you who was behind the wheel of that truck and a biker went under the wheels? How would you feel??

Sorry dude, but it's guys like you who give us all a bad name!

[caseye]

Duke, you are right, but I'd urge you to go back and read the whole thread. Ol G Man here, has had a rather large learning curve and while many here thought and said exactly what you have, we're hoping that he comes out the other end someone who can ride and ride safely.
So far, since coming back into the threads he's shown a different side , one that is prepared to learn and to ride within his own limit's without harping on about things like getting your knee down and speeding everywhere.
Good point about talking with the truckie.

[Grantman_]

..... I just don't get it.

Why have you STILL got a photo on the sig line of you with your knee down on a public road??

It makes you look like a) a tool, and b) like you haven't learned a thing from the crash!

Have you spoken to the truck driver at all? What if was you who was behind the wheel of that truck and a biker went under the wheels? How would you feel??

Sorry dude, but it's guys like you who give us all a bad name!

Okay, let's address this knee down issue because I find it vexing.

Have you ever scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done something 10x 'worse' than getting your knee down.
Have you nearly scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done the equivalent of getting your knee down.

The same statements apply to bikes offering minimal lean ability. The point being you are operating at/near-to the bikes cornering limit.

Of course those unfamiliar with hanging off and touching down recognise it as risky - for themselves. Those that can do it with their eyes closed recognise it as a means to corner tighter for any given lean angle, feel how much lean is in reserve, and stay in peak touch with bike and road. Certainly I found it much safer as opposed to leaning near the limit in upright position - being completely at home with it.

Effectively what some are saying is that people should not lean their bikes past a certain degree on a public road. Knee down is irrelevant. I can understand that statement.

Another major issue is the, innate for many, desire to find the limit. Knee down, and also the act of nearly scraping your pegs, is operating near the limit. 'Learning' to that point is best not done amongst traffic if you value life. Near maximum lean on any bike = Knee down.

[Katman]

Okay, let's address this knee down issue because I find it vexing.

The reality is that if you had learned anything from your crash you would be actively discouraging anyone else from riding on public roads in the manner that led to your demise.

The fact that you're still happy to portray yourself as some sort of road warrior shows you're paying nothing but lip service.

[Glowerss]

Okay, let's address this knee down issue because I find it vexing.

Have you ever scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done something 10x 'worse' than getting your knee down.
Have you nearly scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done the equivalent of getting your knee down.

The same statements apply to bikes offering minimal lean ability. The point being you are operating at/near-to the bikes cornering limit.

Of course those unfamiliar with hanging off and touching down recognise it as risky - for themselves. Those that can do it with their eyes closed recognise it as a means to corner tighter for any given lean angle, feel how much lean is in reserve, and stay in peak touch with bike and road. Certainly I found it much safer as opposed to leaning near the limit in upright position - being completely at home with it.

Effectively what some are saying is that people should not lean their bikes past a certain degree on a public road. Knee down is irrelevant. I can understand that statement.

Another major issue is the, innate for many, desire to find the limit. Knee down, and also the act of nearly scraping your pegs, is operating near the limit. Getting to that point is best not done amongst traffic if you value life. I can understand that near maximum lean on any bike is best not done on public roads if you value life. Knee down is irrelevant.

I showed a buddy of mine whose been racing bikes for 20 years now and has had more bikes then I care to count your first knee down video.

He said your technique sucked ass, you weren't cornering anywhere near to smoothly and you were simply slamming your knee down for the sake of getting it down there. Said you were a bit of a fuckwit actually and he was surprised you hadn't buried your head into a guardrail.

Clearly you haven't quite shaken off your delusions of grandeur. Completely at home and safer getting your knee down. Jesus H Christ.

[sidecar bob]

Or you do it because you think it will make your mates think youre awesome, until some old guy on an adventure bike rides around the outside of you, two up with luggage.

[Grantman_]

I have kept my video because for me it was an achievement. Yes I did feel as if I had accomplished something. Had I simply leaned without scuffing my knee there wouldn't be a commotion. As I said, lean angle is what it ultimately comes down to. Not whether I am scuffing my knee. Am I encouraging death defying behaviour by my angle of lean? Do you encourage death defying behaviour by nearly scraping your pegs? I'm in two minds.

He said your technique sucked ass

It should have at 6 months riding experience.

[sinfull]

Okay, let's address this knee down issue because I find it vexing.

Have you ever scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done something 10x 'worse' than getting your knee down.
Have you nearly scraped your pegs on a public road? If you have, you've done the equivalent of getting your knee down.

The same statements apply to bikes offering minimal lean ability. The point being you are operating at/near-to the bikes cornering limit.

Of course those unfamiliar with hanging off and touching down recognise it as risky - for themselves. Those that can do it with their eyes closed recognise it as a means to corner tighter for any given lean angle, feel how much lean is in reserve, and stay in peak touch with bike and road. Certainly I found it much safer as opposed to leaning near the limit in upright position - being completely at home with it.

Effectively what some are saying is that people should not lean their bikes past a certain degree on a public road. Knee down is irrelevant. I can understand that statement.

Another major issue is the, innate for many, desire to find the limit. Knee down, and also the act of nearly scraping your pegs, is operating near the limit. 'Learning' to that point is best not done amongst traffic if you value life. Near maximum lean on any bike = Knee down.

What a crok !

Riders get a knee down on a bike to guide them as to the limit of the bike yes, but they do so on a race track so they can carry maximum speed into and around a corner by altering the axis centre !

So read into this what you may, but i say you were travelling way to fast into the bend and fucked up !
Don't go glorifying getting your knee down on here, where new riders will read it and think it's an ok way to ride on the road !
Jesus H Fuckin Christ man, you aint learnt nothin !

[Katman]

Meh, you're much the same as that other retard who used to frequent this site posting videos of himself riding like a clown. He watched two of his mates die on the side of the road and still learned nothing.

Funnily enough, he claimed to be a good God fearing christian as well.

[Grantman_]

I'm going to take the advice and remove the vid. Done under duress shows how stupidly proud I am. I am blessed not to be a vegetable or in a wheelchair. Still stubborn and pushing limits, must have developed a biker's heart.

[ducatilover]

I'm kind of agreeing with Grantman here.
I can get the knee down without going fast, knee down in itself isn't an issue.
BUT: I'm pretty sure Katman agreed with me on this one; it's the attitude that 99% have and how they do it. I used to ride like a tool to get my knee down, albeit in open areas where I could "safely" fall off, then I found it could be done at relatively low speeds (ie; below the limit, way below)

Then I got a CB400 and for some reason, might be maturity, stopped riding fast.
Then I flipped my 600 doing wheelies...
Now I'm even more careful.

My theory is: knee down isn't so bad if you can do it well within a bikes limit, it's very fun to do. But the issue as I said, is rider attitude.
This is why we steer people away from it, because the majority have to be dicks on their rides to do it.


And let's face it, a ride on a good sounding bike at a moderate pace well within your comfort zones, is one of the best feelings

[george formby]

some old guy on an adventure bike rides around the outside of you, two up with luggage.

You been following me?