View Poll Results: The discretionary enforcement tolerance in passing lanes should be

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  • the same as everywhere else

    17 16.50%
  • higher than the normal tolerance (eg 40%)

    60 58.25%
  • open ended - police should not enforce the speed limit n passing lanes

    26 25.24%
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Thread: Police discretion re ticketing in passing lanes

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
    If it wins out as the preferred option I can run another poll to see what people think the special passing lane tolerance should actually be.
    Hey I'm in Wellington, I'd love a bit of humour when you take this poll to parliament,let us know when you do

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellywrestler View Post
    Hey I'm in Wellington, I'd love a bit of humour when you take this poll to parliament,let us know when you do
    The 2010 NZ Land Transport Safety Strategy has run it's course, lessons have been learned and the 2020 Strategy is in train. One lesson that has been learned is that the old crime & punishment approach has failed to tackle the top causes of accidents - a new way is being sought. Polls like this are useful input but probably only as a pilot for larger research. Although decision makers are listening and taking submissions. However, the first step is to see if there is anything to be said on this matter: Are we happy with current speed limit enforcement or is there something to be improved - in this instance with respect to passing lanes.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneofsix View Post
    I can remember way back when they used to have a higher limit anyway but that was before the 100kph limit for 'open road'. I think they should bring back a 120k limit for motorways and expressways, with a 110k limit for multi-laned highways.
    I think your memory is playing tricks on you. IIRC back when the national limit was 50mph it was raised to 60mph for motorways only, then the differential was dropped when the country changed to metric and the limit was raised to 100km/h. (I stand to be corrected.)
    "Statistics are used as a drunk uses lampposts - for support, not illumination."

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
    The purpose is not to make 140 the defacto speed limit.
    That's the effect though. Currently the effective open road speed limit is 110km/h, on holiday weekends it's 105km/h. If it were raised to 140km/h on passing lanes while overtaking then a significant proportion of people, including myself, would travel at the higher effect limit whenever possible to do so without risking a ticket. Maybe not always in the car, but it'd make no difference to fuel use on the bike.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
    That's the effect though. Currently the effective open road speed limit is 110km/h, on holiday weekends it's 105km/h. If it were raised to 140km/h on passing lanes then a significant proportion of people, including myself, would travel at the higher effect limit whenever possible. Maybe not always in the car, but it'd make no difference to fuel use on the bike.
    I'm not sure it would be the effect though. If you're not actually passing (and this would be easy for the popo to determine) then you get the ticket.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
    I'm not sure it would be the effect though. If you're not actually passing (and this would be easy for the popo to determine) then you get the ticket.
    your 40% tolerance would only apply to those who are passing? If those being passed are in excess of the 10% tolerance they should be pinged twice, once for speeding and once for preventing overtaking.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneofsix View Post
    your 40% tolerance would only apply to those who are passing?
    That's the idea - I should have made it clearer.

    If those being passed are in excess of the 10% tolerance they should be pinged twice, once for speeding and once for preventing overtaking.
    Three times actually. They were probably doing less than the speed limit prior to the passing lane and then sped up. So the two you mention and a third for impeding a few minutes earlier;-) (Just kidding - if I can be sure the Police won't fish in passing lanes anymore I'll get a whole lot more relaxed about impeders)

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
    I'm not sure it would be the effect though. If you're not actually passing (and this would be easy for the popo to determine) then you get the ticket.
    I've edited my post to make it clearer that I meant while fulfilling the criteria for the higher tolerance.

    Also, I'm not sure it would be that easy to determine whether an overtake was occurring. Does the overtaking vehicle need to be in the passing lane before starting to accelerate? If the answer was "yes" then that's straightforward to enforce but less practical in terms of keeping the passing lane clear unless it's being used. A question that would be likely to cause more trouble would be how close does the overtaking vehicle need to get to the one it's passing before the higher tolerance applies? Call it x metres, it'll come up in court whenever someone gets a ticket in a passing lane.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
    I've edited my post to make it clearer that I meant while fulfilling the criteria for the higher tolerance.

    Also, I'm not sure it would be that easy to determine whether an overtake was occurring. Does the overtaking vehicle need to be in the passing lane before starting to accelerate? If the answer was "yes" then that's straightforward to enforce but less practical in terms of keeping the passing lane clear unless it's being used. A question that would be likely to cause more trouble would be how close does the overtaking vehicle need to get to the one it's passing before the higher tolerance applies? Call it x metres, it'll come up in court whenever someone gets a ticket in a passing lane.
    I would assume the 3 second rule applies? They should be within 3 - 4 seconds of the car infront before starting to accelerate while moving into the passing lane. As far as I know, moving in to the other lane and accelerating to a higher speed happen at the same time.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellywrestler View Post
    cool does that include multilane motorways?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
    Maybe, but I have to think about it. Overtaking lanes are specifically designed for overtaking. Also, they are often the only place you can pass safely for many kilometers. On a multilane motorway you can pass anywhere along it i.e.; it is like there is always a passing lane so the particular place where you pass isn't dictated or limited and you can take more time over it. Also you tend not to get the problem of slow queues building up on motorways that then speed up (entirely and as a queue) when you go to pass them. If you do get build up on motorways it is probably too busy in general for high overtaking speeds to be prudent. If the increased tolerance included motorways you'd get people roaring along the entire length at 140 then telling the Popo "I was just overtaking someone." The purpose is not to make 140 the defacto speed limit. It is a discretionary, absolute top-end tolerance for the very specific situation of a momentary peak speed when overtaking on our scarce, expensive passing lanes. So, on reflection, for the purposes of this poll I'll keep it to passing lanes.
    One difficulty here would be all the roads that aren't classified as motorways but are multilane for many kilometres. Technically they're passing lanes but in most respects that affect traffic flow they're the same as motorways.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parlane View Post
    I would assume the 3 second rule applies? They should be within 3 - 4 seconds of the car infront before starting to accelerate while moving into the passing lane. As far as I know, moving in to the other lane and accelerating to a higher speed happen at the same time.
    To keep the amount of time spent out of the left lane to a minimum I do a significant amount of accelerating prior to moving out. This applies whether using a passing lane or oncoming lane.

    EDIT: Also, basing it on time wouldn't work very well as it would be dependent on speed. If you were doing 140 you could start overtaking sooner than you could at 100.

  12. #27
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    Despite the apparent sense in all this, I suspect that such a practice would quickly degenerate to a point where we would have idiots camped out in the passing lanes roaring past everything on the road - rather as some...errr never mind.

    One of the joys of a bike is that ability to zoom past stuff - if I was allowed 140, I just bet it'd get up higher than that before you could say "boo".
    . “No pleasure is worth giving up for two more years in a rest home.” Kingsley Amis

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
    One difficulty here would be all the roads that aren't classified as motorways but are multilane for many kilometres. Technically they're passing lanes but in most respects that affect traffic flow they're the same as motorways.
    No, lets just keep it to passing lanes that are marked as such, for the same reasons as I worked out for motorways. We can think about multi-lane roads another time.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
    I've edited my post to make it clearer that I meant while fulfilling the criteria for the higher tolerance.

    Also, I'm not sure it would be that easy to determine whether an overtake was occurring. Does the overtaking vehicle need to be in the passing lane before starting to accelerate?
    No

    A question that would be likely to cause more trouble would be how close does the overtaking vehicle need to get to the one it's passing before the higher tolerance applies? Call it x metres, it'll come up in court whenever someone gets a ticket in a passing lane.
    Doesn't need to be as complicated as that. This is an enforcement policy about discretion. It's not a court decision, it's a real-time Popo on the road decision. It'll never go to court. Anyway, its obvious when someone is overtaking - they're either accelerating towards the slower vehicle from behind, alongside it travelling faster, or past it moving left and slowing down.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by slofox View Post
    Despite the apparent sense in all this, I suspect that such a practice would quickly degenerate to a point where we would have idiots camped out in the passing lanes roaring past everything on the road - rather as some...errr never mind.
    Yeah I can see that. Two mates, a Morrie and a Z1R taking turns being the overtaker and the overtakee. But so what? The riskiest part would be the U turns they'd be doing at the end of each run.

    One of the joys of a bike is that ability to zoom past stuff - if I was allowed 140, I just bet it'd get up higher than that before you could say "boo".
    Then you'd get a ticket, just like you do if you exceed the current tolerances.

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