View Poll Results: The discretionary enforcement tolerance in passing lanes should be

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  • the same as everywhere else

    17 16.50%
  • higher than the normal tolerance (eg 40%)

    60 58.25%
  • open ended - police should not enforce the speed limit n passing lanes

    26 25.24%
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Thread: Police discretion re ticketing in passing lanes

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    I wouldn't get too worked up about it. I don't think the government is going to set policy based on the ramblings on an internet forum.
    It's just where it starts..

  2. #47
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    You know those people who speed up on passing lanes?
    What's the bet they'll still do that, except faster.

    One of the biggest things with those people is, the road is wider/safer looking, most of them speed up without noticing because with a wider road their comfortable speed threshold increases, hence why they slow back down after the passing lane. It's usually not an arrogance thing (although, you do get that ).

    I think a higher limit in passing lanes is a nice idea, but, there are many passing lanes that are not safe at higher speeds and so many people already fuck it up without going over the speed limit.
    I think, better training for drivers and riders (not that we have "training" as a mandatory thing....) would be far better. I think; if an individual was in more control and more alert, they would be able to travel at a comfortable 100km/h and there would be less want to pass them.

    I can understand where this idea is coming from and I myself would like a higher speed limit on passing lanes, but, sadly there are a lot of variables and idiots to be accounted for.

    Yet again, I can bring it back to a complete lack of driver training
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul in NZ View Post
    Ha...Thats true but life is full horrible choices sometimes Merv. Then sometimes just plain stuff happens... and then some more stuff happens.....




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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducatilover View Post
    You know those people who speed up on passing lanes?
    What's the bet they'll still do that, except faster.
    Don't see why they would. The road won't get any wider and they'll still be at risk of a ticket.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducatilover View Post
    I think, better training for drivers and riders (not that we have "training" as a mandatory thing....) would be far better.
    I agree. It's ridiculous that most of the people in control of vehicles on NZ roads have had zero formal training.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducatilover View Post
    One of the biggest things with those people is, the road is wider/safer looking, most of them speed up without noticing because with a wider road their comfortable speed threshold increases, hence why they slow back down after the passing lane. It's usually not an arrogance thing (although, you do get that )
    That is exactly it, it is an unconscious reaction to the change in environment brought on by the localised road widening. It will happen, get used to it.

    Let's face it, 140km/h is not going to happen due to the great variance in the standard of passing lanes across the country. It might be better to try and convince TPTB that they need to have another look at their own policy on overtaking opportunities and start putting things in to practice. That would help all road users, not just the confident ones who want to have a fang but also the less confident ones who cause half the problems.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    That is exactly it, it is an unconscious reaction to the change in environment brought on by the localised road widening. It will happen, get used to it.
    If they were driving conscious of other road users or cared about them they wouldn't speed up. However, unconscious/uncaring drivers exist so it does happen as you say, but I am not prepared to accept your suggestion to simply "get used to it."

    There are at least a few things that can be done:
    1. Report impeders to *555
    2. Record the registration numbers of impeders if *555 isn't effective and make complaints, insist on fines not just warnings and be prepared to go to court as a witness if necessary
    3. Good traffic cops already use discretion about overtakers. Unfortunately, bad cops use it as a fishing opportunity. Which is why I'm exploring the possibility of a formal policy and traffic cop education about it.
    4. If you get a ticket in a passing lane fight it with everything available*. The traffic cop who issued it is one of the bad ones who prefers fishing to improving safety and the goal should be getting him or her sacked. Rightly or wrongly it is possible to get off just about any speeding ticket if you play it right and fight hard enough. On these occasions the effort it is justified.
    5. Much of that detailed in the Passing & Overtaking Policy To Practice document costs money. With Chch to fix, the EQC fund to replenish, the recession etc full implementation is unlikely. However, when passing lanes are due for repainting the left lane could be made narrower and the right lane wider at little incremental cost.


    For our traffic cops: Can you tell us if there are any formal processes around police discretion geared to identifying "best practice" and implementing it across the board, or is it really just a lottery that depends on who you get?
    ______________
    *Assuming it was just a speeding ticket and you weren't being reckless, careless, etc

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
    5. Much of that detailed in the Passing & Overtaking Policy To Practice document costs money. With Chch to fix, the EQC fund to replenish, the recession etc full implementation is unlikely. However, when passing lanes are due for repainting the left lane could be made narrower and the right lane wider at little incremental cost.
    I had the exact same thought regarding making the left lane smaller. As someone stated, people feel safer in the passing lanes due to them being wider, so they speed up. If you make them think they are going down a skinny tunnel, they are unlikely to speed up.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
    Don't see why they would. The road won't get any wider and they'll still be at risk of a ticket.
    There are a few people I know who would, needless to say they'll get a smack if they did.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
    I agree. It's ridiculous that most of the people in control of vehicles on NZ roads have had zero formal training.
    It worries me greatly, our road toll and accident rates would be far, far lower with real training, unfortunately we have a penny pinching gubbermint who would not be willing to help save people. People are not valued as high as the dollar
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul in NZ View Post
    Ha...Thats true but life is full horrible choices sometimes Merv. Then sometimes just plain stuff happens... and then some more stuff happens.....




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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducatilover View Post
    It worries me greatly, our road toll and accident rates would be far, far lower with real training, unfortunately we have a penny pinching gubbermint who would not be willing to help save people. People are not valued as high as the dollar
    The government could easily profit from extra training though.. Make defensive courses compulsory. Government can take a cut.

    Make practical car/bike on road training compulsory. Government can take a cut.

  9. #54
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    IMO compulsory training from the Govt is NOT a good idea, in-fact I think it would be quite a bad idea, pumping out more useless drivers at a higher level of incompetence
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve View Post
    IMO compulsory training from the Govt is NOT a good idea, in-fact I think it would be quite a bad idea, pumping out more useless drivers at a higher level of incompetence
    I was talking about courses like this:
    http://www.motorcycleschool.co.nz/in...?page=advanced

    And having x number of hours with a trained instructor before you sit your learners for car etc. Then an offensive/defensive practical driving lesson on a track for car before you get your full. My dad did one at some point, no idea where though. He said it helped a lot though.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
    If they were driving conscious of other road users or cared about them they wouldn't speed up. However, unconscious/uncaring drivers exist so it does happen as you say, but I am not prepared to accept your suggestion to simply "get used to it."

    There are at least a few things that can be done:
    1. Report impeders to *555
    2. Record the registration numbers of impeders if *555 isn't effective and make complaints, insist on fines not just warnings and be prepared to go to court as a witness if necessary
    3. Good traffic cops already use discretion about overtakers. Unfortunately, bad cops use it as a fishing opportunity. Which is why I'm exploring the possibility of a formal policy and traffic cop education about it.
    4. If you get a ticket in a passing lane fight it with everything available*. The traffic cop who issued it is one of the bad ones who prefers fishing to improving safety and the goal should be getting him or her sacked. Rightly or wrongly it is possible to get off just about any speeding ticket if you play it right and fight hard enough. On these occasions the effort it is justified.
    5. Much of that detailed in the Passing & Overtaking Policy To Practice document costs money. With Chch to fix, the EQC fund to replenish, the recession etc full implementation is unlikely. However, when passing lanes are due for repainting the left lane could be made narrower and the right lane wider at little incremental cost.


    For our traffic cops: Can you tell us if there are any formal processes around police discretion geared to identifying "best practice" and implementing it across the board, or is it really just a lottery that depends on who you get?
    ______________
    *Assuming it was just a speeding ticket and you weren't being reckless, careless, etc
    Good post but number 2 is impractical
    We cant fine people on hearsay of the public or we would end up with a lot more "bad cops"
    I would hope the police keep track of complaints againts a driver (plate number) but not sure what they can do about it?
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parlane View Post
    I was talking about courses like this:
    http://www.motorcycleschool.co.nz/in...?page=advanced

    And having x number of hours with a trained instructor before you sit your learners for car etc. Then an offensive/defensive practical driving lesson on a track for car before you get your full. My dad did one at some point, no idea where though. He said it helped a lot though.
    I know what people have in mind and it's not a bad idea, but I also know if the Govt made training compulsory it wouldn't be that, and it would be far worse than current.

    Think it definitely comes under "be careful what you wish for"
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by yachtie10 View Post
    I would hope the police keep track of complaints againts a driver (plate number) but not sure what they can do about it?
    Maybe this needs to be done by an independent, non-police agency. Run it the same way as Community Traffic Watch but make the database public and free to view. That way, if a certain Rego crops up again and again the attention of the LEO's could be drawn to that plate.

    It'd also mean you could check your own reg to see how many drivers you have pissed off by hurtling past them at warp factor 9...
    . “No pleasure is worth giving up for two more years in a rest home.” Kingsley Amis

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve View Post
    I know what people have in mind and it's not a bad idea, but I also know if the Govt made training compulsory it wouldn't be that, and it would be far worse than current.

    Think it definitely comes under "be careful what you wish for"
    You make a fair point. I keep coming to the conclusion that there is no fix.

    Maybe even harder testing on driving tests...
    Maybe get rid of multichoice questions in the learners test and replace it with a short answer style test. Of course the AA can charge more for their time etc. Why should getting the right to drive be a cheap affair anyway ?

    Motorcycle leaners test is a complete joke IMO. I shouldn't have been on the road before doing the extra course with Mike to get the basics down. I learnt with a friend, who never mentioned counter steering.. (And I don't ride a pushbike, so it didn't come naturally). At the time I did do the basics course with Mike, I already had everything down, but a few theory things got me better sorted for riding on the road. And just the knowledge that I made sure I did have the practical things right too.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by slofox View Post
    Maybe this needs to be done by an independent, non-police agency. Run it the same way as Community Traffic Watch but make the database public and free to view. That way, if a certain Rego crops up again and again the attention of the LEO's could be drawn to that plate.

    It'd also mean you could check your own reg to see how many drivers you have pissed off by hurtling past them at warp factor 9...
    Want me to set one up? A nice name and shame site? Links to youtube videos of pushbikes who don't obey red light rules because they're on a pushbike and have no plate? Fuckers.

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