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View Poll Results: The discretionary enforcement tolerance in passing lanes should be

Voters
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  • the same as everywhere else

    17 16.50%
  • higher than the normal tolerance (eg 40%)

    60 58.25%
  • open ended - police should not enforce the speed limit n passing lanes

    26 25.24%
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Thread: Police discretion re ticketing in passing lanes

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
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    No, lets just keep it to passing lanes that are marked as such, for the same reasons as I worked out for motorways. We can think about multi-lane roads another time.
    But they are marked as passing lanes. The big black text on white background "Keep left unless passing" sign as one lane opens to two in a 100km/h area. What length of road with two lanes in one direction makes it a multilane road rather than a passing lane?

    I'm not trying to be annoying here, I'd very much like to be able to overtake safely without risking a ticket. I just think that it's not necessarily as simple as one might hope.

  2. #32
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    Interesting discussion.

    If a driver/rider is travelling along in the left lane of a passing lane, and there isn't anyone else there, should he be entitled to the higher tolerance? It won't happen anyway, but it's an interesting thought.

    I've issued a number of tickets to lone vehicles in passing lanes, only to have the drivers claim to have been passing. Thing is, they maybe did pass at the start of the lane, but then forgot to slow down. We occasionally ticket drivers several km past the passing lane, who have just forgotten to slow down.

    Like I said, yet another thought provoking thread.

    I've been relieving on the HP for 6 weeks, tomorrow I start back in the city. In the last 6 weeks I've driven along passing lanes and seen people over the tolerance. And I have just driven on, as long as they are overtaking and not flying for the sake of it.

    I know my staff do the same thing, so despite all the talk about revenue collecting in passing lanes, you'd be surprised at how much common sense is shown by the Popos out there. Thing is, whoever gets a speeding ticket inevitably distorts the facts to show that the Popo was nit picking.

    Every story has 2 sides, so next time you hear someone telling a story about how hard done by they were, remember that there is almost inevitably another side to it.

    I do recall that in 1993 I had a dude bitching to me about having had a speed camera ticket for 52 in a 50 kmh area. I asked him to produce the ticket, which he did. It was for 63, but the guy was adamant that he was only going 52. So he bitches all over about a camera ticket for 52 when it didn't actually happen. Never let the facts stand in the way of a good whinge.

    I'll vote on this one. Interesting to see the outcome, but not surprising.

    Disappointingly common sense approach Jack. I expected more of you.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
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    Doesn't need to be as complicated as that. This is an enforcement policy about discretion. It's not a court decision, it's a real-time Popo on the road decision. It'll never go to court.
    Yes and no. If I got a ticket for 101km/h I'd take it to court and argue that it shouldn't have been issued, even though I was breaking the speed limit. I'd probably still have to pay the ticket but anyone in that position would be pissed off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
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    Anyway, its obvious when someone is overtaking - they're either accelerating towards the slower vehicle from behind, alongside it travelling faster, or past it moving left and slowing down.
    I don't know that it is. If you're on the last pasing lane for 50km and there's a truck in front of you doing 80km/h that you'd catch up to at the end of the passing lane if you stayed at 100 then what would you do? I'd speed up to 120 early and cover some distance before overtaking in order to pull back in safely before the passing lane finishes. There are going to be grey areas.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
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    Yeah I can see that. Two mates, a Morrie and a Z1R taking turns being the overtaker and the overtakee. But so what? The riskiest part would be the U turns they'd be doing at the end of each run.


    Then you'd get a ticket, just like you do if you exceed the current tolerances.
    And loss of licence... Due to being over 40km/h...

  5. #35
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    Voted.

    And have to say I have never issued a ticket to anybody on a passing lane, period.

    And can't say I know anybody who has.

    Not saying there's not the zealous guy or two that wouldn't ticket in the same circumstances...
    Winding up drongos, foil hat wearers and over sensitive KBers for over 13,000 posts...........
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
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    But they are marked as passing lanes. The big black text on white background "Keep left unless passing" sign as one lane opens to two in a 100km/h area. What length of road with two lanes in one direction makes it a multilane road rather than a passing lane?

    I'm not trying to be annoying here, I'd very much like to be able to overtake safely without risking a ticket. I just think that it's not necessarily as simple as one might hope.
    Really long passing lanes eh? OK I see the problem. A long stretch of double lane, several cars on it spaced out ahead. "Can I speed up to 140, pass one and slow down to the speed limit again; or can I hold it at 140 and try to pass the lot?"
    Philosophically the intention is the former not the latter. Furthermore, if you can get past in the space available at less than 140 then you shouldn't reach 140, just whatever speed is necessary to get past within the clear road ahead and without preventing others behind from also overtaking. Also, 140 is a momentary peak - the fastest part of the maneuver not a sustained speed.

    It needs more thought than I have time for right now. In the meantime, someone else might figure out the answer. I'm sure we can find one if we put our heads together. Maybe the answer is to vote for option 3 and have an open tolerance for exceeding the speed limit in passing lanes. Popos could use other charges like "excessive speed" or "reckless driving" for abuses of the tolerance, which I always intended even for option 2. I wouldn't expect Popos to ignore someone overtaking at 140 in a fog!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
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    If a driver/rider is travelling along in the left lane of a passing lane, and there isn't anyone else there, should he be entitled to the higher tolerance? It won't happen anyway, but it's an interesting thought.
    OP has already said no.

    Quote Originally Posted by rastuscat View Post
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    I've driven along passing lanes and seen people over the tolerance. And I have just driven on, as long as they are overtaking and not flying for the sake of it.

    I know my staff do the same thing
    This has been my experience. But I do agree with Jack that it would be nice if this could be relied upon rather than just a gamble.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
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    Voted.

    And have to say I have never issued a ticket to anybody on a passing lane, period.

    And can't say I know anybody who has.

    Not saying there's not the zealous guy or two that wouldn't ticket in the same circumstances...

    Driving herself's car, I was passing a truck and trailer towards the end of a passing lane not so long ago. There was a LEO with radar activated back behind me. So I didn't fang it to get past in time. Just about got minced up by the truck. Stupid decision on my part but there ya go.

    Course, even though there was a huge shoulder area off to the left, the truckie made his point by not giving me any leeway...
    Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that I seemed to have more patience. Turns out I just don't give a shit...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
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    Voted.

    And have to say I have never issued a ticket to anybody on a passing lane, period.

    And can't say I know anybody who has.

    Not saying there's not the zealous guy or two that wouldn't ticket in the same circumstances...
    I've met your zealot. 3 times in fact, although on checking the first occasion it was almost 10 years ago (hold a grudge? Me?) But the last one was this year and it leaves me very nervous about overtaking. There's enough going on without worrying about that 1 in a thousand zealot causing mayhem in the middle of it. If we could stop impeders speeding up when we try and pass we'd not need this. But we can't so I think we do.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by slofox View Post
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    Driving herself's car, I was passing a truck and trailer towards the end of a passing lane not so long ago. There was a LEO with radar activated back behind me. So I didn't fang it to get past in time. Just about got minced up by the truck. Stupid decision on my part but there ya go.

    Course, even though there was a huge shoulder area off to the left, the truckie made his point by not giving me any leeway...
    If you had a hands free kit you could've *555'd the cop asking them to book the truck for impeding. I'm sure you'd move to the shoulder to let the following LEO past to pull the truck over than sailed on by happily. But *555ing from a bike is a real hassle. An overtaking enforcement policy we can rely on seems better.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
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    I've met your zealot. 3 times in fact, although on checking the first occasion it was almost 10 years ago (hold a grudge? Me?) But the last one was this year and it leaves me very nervous about overtaking. There's enough going on without worrying about that 1 in a thousand zealot causing mayhem in the middle of it. If we could stop impeders speeding up when we try and pass we'd not need this. But we can't so I think we do.
    I've overtaken HEAPS of cars in my life, some on passing lanes but mostly not.

    And the only speeding ticket I have ever had was when I was overtaking - in 1987.

    But I don't hold a grudge about that either.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
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    If you had a hands free kit you could've *555'd the cop asking them to book the truck for impeding. I'm sure you'd move to the shoulder to let the following LEO past to pull the truck over than sailed on by happily. But *555ing from a bike is a real hassle. An overtaking enforcement policy we can rely on seems better.
    Offtopic, but you don't have to have a hands free kit to call *555.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
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    I've overtaken HEAPS of cars in my life, some on passing lanes but mostly not.

    And the only speeding ticket I have ever had was when I was overtaking - in 1987.

    But I don't hold a grudge about that either.
    Well see there's something too, this thread only addresses passing lanes. What about passing on the opposite side of the road where "speeding" is safer than not???
    Science Is But An Organized System Of Ignorance
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Miller View Post
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    If you had a hands free kit you could've *555'd the cop asking them to book the truck for impeding. I'm sure you'd move to the shoulder to let the following LEO past to pull the truck over than sailed on by happily. But *555ing from a bike is a real hassle. An overtaking enforcement policy we can rely on seems better.
    My knees were knocking together about then...oh and herself was telling me off for being a tit as well...
    Now that I'm older, I thought it was great that I seemed to have more patience. Turns out I just don't give a shit...

  15. #45
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    I wouldn't get too worked up about it. I don't think the government is going to set policy based on the ramblings on an internet forum.

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