Road safety video - MUST WATCH!

**R-Soul** · 10th December 2009, 23:34

Originally Posted by TerryB

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Yeh, great video. Took ages to download though. Well worth it though. You're right. I was kind of expecting a more dramatic ending. I think we need more of these though, especially from New Zealand. The Ride Forever DVD on the latest issue of Kiwi Rider was a great start.

Until the Kiwi world champ says he does not believe in counter steering...

**Laxi** · 10th December 2009, 23:37

Originally Posted by R Sole

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Until the Kiwi world champ says he does not believe in counter steering...

from what I recall he said he dosn't believe in it as consious action, rather that it just happens, and for an experienced rider that seems true to me
:and as far as I know he was never "world champ"

**R-Soul** · 11th December 2009, 06:01

Originally Posted by Laxi

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from what I recall he said he dosn't believe in it as consious action, rather that it just happens, and for an experienced rider that seems true to me
:and as far as I know he was never "world champ"

I dont recall the exact words, but all I do remember is that he was less than emphatic about it - to the extent that the judges "respectfully" disagreed with him. I still remember thinking "good on ya mates- that takes balls"

I am pretty sure he was introduced as a world champ? whatever - certainly a pro rider. (perhaps thats why?)

**p.dath** · 11th December 2009, 06:44

Originally Posted by R Sole

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Until the Kiwi world champ says he does not believe in counter steering...

Perhaps lets consider two separate things, counter balancing and counter steering.

Counter steering is what you do in an emergency to avoid something. It is a short term course correction.

Counter balancing being what you do when riding around a corner at any speed faster than 30 km/h, so you can lean into it.

I think Aaron's comments were more to do with counter balancing, as in what he does on the track all day. And he would be doing it automatically. He would not be thinking about doing it deliberately. He's been doing it for so long, he probably can't remember what it was like trying to learn.

**R-Soul** · 2nd February 2010, 11:26

Originally Posted by p.dath

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Perhaps lets consider two separate things, counter balancing and counter steering.

Counter steering is what you do in an emergency to avoid something. It is a short term course correction.

Counter balancing being what you do when riding around a corner at any speed faster than 30 km/h, so you can lean into it.

I think Aaron's comments were more to do with counter balancing, as in what he does on the track all day. And he would be doing it automatically. He would not be thinking about doing it deliberately. He's been doing it for so long, he probably can't remember what it was like trying to learn.

Sure I accept that he was probably not thinking in technical terms or terminology (and who am I to correct a pro rider!), but lets be clear here- there is no such thing as "counter balancing". The ONLY REAL steering you get on a bike comes from counter steering. Using body weight to steer results in NO effective steering at all. People who think they use body weight to steer are misguided. They are actually using counter steering and don't know it.

See this article by Keith code at the California Superbike School: http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

Perhaps in the act of moving body weight to the inside, they are unsuspectingly pushing outwardly on the inside bar, and causing countersteering, but they are only going around corners because of it. Counter steering is not just for emergency situations- it is for controlled riding in general. When it is the only way that you ride, with conscious counter steeering, then it will be the only way that you react in emergency situations. Better to ingrain it sooner rather than later.

**BMWST?** · 2nd February 2010, 13:57

Originally Posted by R Sole

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Sure I accept that he was probably not thinking in technical terms or terminology (and who am I to correct a pro rider!), but lets be clear here- there is no such thing as "counter balancing". The ONLY REAL steering you get on a bike comes from counter steering. Using body weight to steer results in NO effective steering at all. People who think they use body weight to steer are misguided. They are actually using counter steering and don't know it.

See this article by Keith code at the California Superbike School: http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

Perhaps in the act of moving body weight to the inside, they are unsuspectingly pushing outwardly on the inside bar, and causing countersteering, but they are only going around corners because of it. Counter steering is not just for emergency situations- it is for controlled riding in general. When it is the only way that you ride, with conscious counter steeering, then it will be the only way that you react in emergency situations. Better to ingrain it sooner rather than later.

How can you ride a bike with no hands then.Body weight can and does affect the course of even large motorcycles.(and no hands on the handebars)
BTW i reckon countersteering is the way two wheels vehicles turn,so no arguments there

**R-Soul** · 2nd February 2010, 14:06

Yes you are right it does have a little effect- That's why my wording was "real steering" and "no effective steering".
You do get some steer out of body weight, but this type of steering is only effective to move the bike around really wide corners, and is less effective the faster you go, since the gyroscopic stabilising force of the spinning wheels is stronger and tends to keep the bike upright.

I have never ever seen anybody take anything close to a real corner (for eg radius less than 100m) with no hands unless they had turned in already and then let go of the bars. Have you?

**bkker** · 1st April 2010, 01:23

Thanks for sharing the vid!
for some reason it kept on freezing for me right at the end by the tractor bit, must have been something wrong with the download.