Driving & licensing: A generation Z perspective

[Scuba_Steve]

I think the ability to drive starts as a kid.
When I was at primary I'd walk to school, thus giving me an appreciation for pedestrians, crossings, & how dangerous 2 tonne pieces of steel are.
College I deadly peddley'd giving me the basics of the road, teaching me basics of bikes & in future driving teaching me to watch the left.
Then I started driving I was taught by me dad with the "clip round the ear" method which taught me "DON'T fuck up" and my whole driving life I haven't.

I think todays driving problem stems alot from a lack of the above. No-one walks to school anymore they're dropped off by SUV's, they don't deadly pedley again it's SUV's, & parents don't teach their kids anymore & certainly not with the "clip round the ear" method (they outlawed that) they pay someone else to teach them, badly!.

Then theres the licence system itself, IMO it should be
Learners - 2yrs on 2-wheels (power-weight restricted), you will learn the road & about other users before you are allowed to operate a 2-tonne killing machine.
Restricted (only for cars) - Will be almost the equivalent of learners car now, 1yr with supervising driver at all times.
Full - Well, full!. Bikers can graduate to full bike after learner period, cars will have to do restricted first

Getting your licence would be different to
Learners - You should be learning on this one so questions about the rules (proper questions to not the crap we have now) maybee a basic demonstration of checking/filling tyres, checking oil, filling gas etc
Restricted - A basic round town test done on 2-wheels to show you know the basics of the road before you can get restricted
Full - The final "weed-out", this test would include
Merging - This would be a big part, any significant hesitation, "giving way", stopping etc would be instant fail you must "merge like a zip".
Keeping left - Any failure to "keep left" would be instant fail
Intersections - You would be taken through a few of different type to show you understand how they work/ what to do, again fail if unable to operate them.

Failure to pass will set you back 3 months 3 failures will set you back a licence.

Well thats my take on it & how I'd run it, I may have missed/shortened some stuff there but thats the gist. Welcome to the Empire!

[Parlane]

Are you saying that anyone who wants to drive should have to spend 2 years on a bike ? Or are we specifically talking about bikes here?

IMO, there should be more training and testing required for the motorcycle learners licence. I came away from it knowing how to do small turns, indicate and stay stable. I did not know how to ride at speeds of more than 30km/hr.

[Scuba_Steve]

Are you saying that anyone who wants to drive should have to spend 2 years on a bike ? Or are we specifically talking about bikes here?

Anyone & everyone

IMO, there should be more training and testing required for the motorcycle learners licence. I came away from it knowing how to do small turns, indicate and stay stable. I did not know how to ride at speeds of more than 30km/hr.

See but thats kinda a prob in itself the learners is there for you to learn, knowing how to ride/drive beforehand makes the learners somewhat redundant.

[Ferkletastic]

I think there's something to be said for the idea that you start learning road craft as a kid walking and riding (a bicycle) around.

Do kids outside of cities still walk everywhere? Nobody in Orkland seems to let their kids do any of the stuff that we used to get up to back in the 80's. Quite honestly I doubt it's any more dangerous now than it was then.

[Luckylegs]

Are you saying that anyone who wants to drive should have to spend 2 years on a bike ?

yeh i wondered that too. Ive seen a couple of people suggest that. Frankly i think its dumb and possibly a reason for so many accidents (injury) in learner riders that you expect someone to learn good road craft in a vehicle that will fall over as soon as you stop concentrating. I dont think you can successfully learn the mechanics of motorcycle control and road awareness at the same time

...i think all riders should have held a class one first

FLAME AWAY

[Scuba_Steve]

yeh i wondered that too. Ive seen a couple of people suggest that. Frankly i think its dumb and possibly a reason for so many accidents (injury) in learner riders that you expect someone to learn good road craft in a vehicle that will fall over as soon as you stop concentrating. I dont think you can successfully learn the mechanics of motorcycle control and road awareness at the same time

...i think all riders should have held a class one first

FLAME AWAY

I think it's better than learning in a vehicle that kills someone as soon as you stop concentrating, but thats the thing if your in control of a motor you should Never stop concentrating.
And I would also expect people start to learn on their own property or on "dead" roads I don't expect people to be in peak traffic 1st time out, Hell I wasn't even allowed to start the engine till I learnt where the clutch took up or where the gears were

[bogan]

I think there's something to be said for the idea that you start learning road craft as a kid walking and riding (a bicycle) around.

Do kids outside of cities still walk everywhere? Nobody in Orkland seems to let their kids do any of the stuff that we used to get up to back in the 80's. Quite honestly I doubt it's any more dangerous now than it was then.

Yeh, but outside cities there isn't so much traffic, so you wouldn't learn as much in that respect. However, I knew a lot about driving cars and bikes before I was ever on the road, so it probably evens out. Assuming the oppourtunities are actually used in either case.

I think New Zealand tries to copy other countries who have far better roads, we can't afford to keep all our roads in such a condition to significantly reduce accidents like other countries do. We should follow the Finnish, and ensure all road users are highly trained before letting them loose.

[Usarka]

Quite honestly I doubt it's any more dangerous now than it was then.

I was listening to an expert from the USA a while ago who said studies back that up.

If I become dictator then it would be illegal to drive your kids to school if you live within 5kms or are near a bus route.

[Zedder]

I think there's something to be said for the idea that you start learning road craft as a kid walking and riding (a bicycle) around.

Do kids outside of cities still walk everywhere? Nobody in Orkland seems to let their kids do any of the stuff that we used to get up to back in the 80's. Quite honestly I doubt it's any more dangerous now than it was then.

I don't know about outside the cities but I do know the "walking school bus" has got kids out of cars and stopped major conjestion happening at a lot of schools in the cities.

Parents do seem a bit paranoid about a lot of things these days though.

[bluninja]

yeh i wondered that too. Ive seen a couple of people suggest that. Frankly i think its dumb and possibly a reason for so many accidents (injury) in learner riders that you expect someone to learn good road craft in a vehicle that will fall over as soon as you stop concentrating. I dont think you can successfully learn the mechanics of motorcycle control and road awareness at the same time

Perhaps then, the vehicle control should be taught off road first ....Compulsory Basic Training with a trained and ceritified instructor before you get to go on road, again with an instructor, to apply your machine control in the real world and add in some basic roadcraft.

I think this should be the way it's done, whether you pilot something with 2,3,4, or 16 wheels.

I thnik the OP is being idealistic, but not practical. There are some people that cannot ride a motorbike (physical disability is a prime example).

However if we made everyone that was physically able, ride motorbikes then we'd have a big road toll whilst Darwin removes the idiots from the gene pool. Though at least it will be in 1's and 2's and not a whole van load

In case you are reading this far, the last paragraph was very much tongue in cheek

[avgas]

I think the problem is not the roads or the licensing.
I think the problem is the riders/drivers.

They go through the whole process tick all th boxes......but never find out what their own limits or the vehicle's limits are.
I know 40+ year olds who are like this.

They have never slid out in the mud, never power-slid a vehicle in gravel, never slammed the brakes on to sliding point.

Guess what happens when they suddenly find themselves outside their comfort zone............thats right folks, they crash.
Yet the lesson could have been learnt far earlier, in far safer circumstances.

[Swoop]

Have to agree with the starting point of walking. Attack some of the "obesity problem" by not letting mummy drive the POS SUV to school.
I remember the local plod teaching "roadcraft" at primary school, with basic pedestrian intelligence requirements needed... (perhaps thats wht psyclists hate me when they ride across pedestrian crossings...)

Our lerners are taught SOME skills to pass the scratch-and-win test, but no more.
Shit training and shit testing = shit drivers.

[Banditbandit]

I think part of the problem is the vehicles available today ... When I learnt to ride back in the early 1970s I had a BSA Bantam ... and a quick one at that - it was timed at 60mph .... and cars .. shit I was doing well to get my A40 Farina to more80mph ... (had 85mph on the speedo down the Wellington motorway from Tawa to Johnsonville) ..

Today learners can get bikes 250cc or less that will top 160 klicks (100mph) and cars that will get close to 200kph ...

It's simply not safe. If I was learning to ride or drive now and did what I did back then I would probably be a road fatality - and so would many here (if they were honest and admitted it ...) Those of us who survived learnt to ride and drive quite well ... but with modern vehicles less of us would have survived ...

And yes - it's the rider/driver .. I'll admit I was crazy and lucky to survive - I have no idea what might have changed my attitutde back then .. having mates killed on bikes and cars certainly did not .. Hell, I got pissed and road my bike (at high speed) the night my best mate was killed on a bike ...

And I can still be a little crazy on the road on a bike (I also have a 4x4 and it's hard to be crazy in that ...)

So yes, attitude is a problem .. and the speed of modern vehicles.

(ANd yeah .. I walked everywhere as a kid - or rode pushbikes ... until I could afford to own cars and bikes ... so I don't see that makes a huge difference ...)

[Indiana_Jones]

The one thing I loath about the licencing rules is that bike learners have a power to weight ratio limit (or so we've been told now, and about bloody time), but car drivers have no such limit. Billy Blogs can get some silly fast rice burner.....

Power to weight ratio for cars as well.

And don't limit it to certain makes/models etc. Do it the UK way, where you can own a 600cc bike as long as it's been restricted to a certain BHP. Once you get your full take it off and away you go. Of course people would say "what's to stop you from taking it off in the first place", nothing just like there's nothing stopping you riding a 1000cc bike on your learners, or no licence.....

-Indy

[Banditbandit]

The one thing I loathe about the licecing rules is that bike learners have a power to weight ratio limit (or so we've been told now, and about bloody time), but car drivers have no such limit. Billy Blogs can get some silly fast rice burner.....

Power to weight ratio for cars as well.

And don't limit it to certain makes/models etc. Do it the UK way, where you can own a 600cc bike as long as it's been restricted to a certain BHP. Once you get your full take it off and away you go. Of course people would say "what's to stop you from taking it off in the first place", nothing just like there's nothing stopping you riding a 1000cc bike on your learners, or no licence.....

-Indy

yeah ... I agree ...