US rider sues Harley Davidson over "missing ABS"

[davereid]

Well thats up to you.

But I like to champion the right of people to make decisions that may place them at risk. People who choose to ride a motorcycle, climb a mountain or jump out of perfectly good aircraft.

As T.P.T.B. are still playing the game based on making motorcycling the safest it can be with helmets, lights on, and hi-viz.

But one day, this will quietly change.

You will find vehicles of all types rated by safety. Your ACC levy on your 5 star car will be less that the 3 star one.

The focus will change to making travel the safest it can be.

And if we haven't established that its OK to take risks for pleasure, motorcycling will be pushed away.

[Jay GTI]

I agree with the principle you are championing, but I have a real issue with using statistical analysis to "prove" an arguement.

Unless you are simply playing those idiots (i.e. ACC policy makers and the like) at their own game, in which case please continue.

[davereid]

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I agree with the principle you are championing, but I have a real issue with using statistical analysis to "prove" an arguement. Unless you are simply playing those idiots (i.e. ACC policy makers and the like) at their own game, in which case please continue.

Thats the point I think. We actually fall into a mindset from which we cant win. If we accept that its OK to stop :

People riding helmet-less for a 37% improvement in safety
People riding without lights on for a 5% improvement in safety
People riding without hi-viv for a 5% improvement in safety

Are we not vulnerable when they propose stopping people riding for a 2000% improvement in safety ?

[Jay GTI]

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Thats the point I think. We actually fall into a mindset from which we cant win. If we accept that its OK to stop :

People riding helmet-less for a 37% improvement in safety
People riding without lights on for a 5% improvement in safety
People riding without hi-viv for a 5% improvement in safety

Are we not vulnerable when they propose stopping people riding for a 2000% improvement in safety ?

Cool, I get where you're going. And yes, unless someone questions the statitics we are force-fed by ACC, National or whoever is trying to tell us that enjoying life is wrong, then we will eventually fold and give in.


Lies, damn lies and statistics etc...

[scumdog]

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Are we not vulnerable when they propose stopping people riding for a 2000% improvement in safety ?

I'd be worried that it might well pan out like that in the future - enjoy it while we can I say...

[GrayWolf]

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I'm not saying the guy wouldn't have crashed anyway, but I still think if you genuinely thought you had it, you may ride differently.
.

That is the scary part of modern driving....Yes stability control, ABS, traction control etc are all wonderfull safety features. They can, and DO save lives, BUT people are driving/riding differently as ABS,tract'/stab' controls will save me. Reality is, you NEED to learn cadence braking, etc. These additions are there for extreme need, not for matter of course driving/riding. I have a bike with ABS, and YES it has activated a couple of times. (both were low speed on bad surfaces)... I guess that if you never activate them, even in an emergency situation? You are driving with skill and control.

[BIG DOUG]

HD owners manuals are pretty good IF YOU READ THEM,I think abs is an option in the states and if he had read the manual he would have read how the abs light will stay on until the first application of the brakes,so no light no abs his fault should have read the manual and about time a jury and judge in the usa used some common sense.

[HenryDorsetCase]

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That is the scary part of modern driving....Yes stability control, ABS, traction control etc are all wonderfull safety features. They can, and DO save lives, BUT people are driving/riding differently as ABS,tract'/stab' controls will save me. Reality is, you NEED to learn cadence braking, etc. These additions are there for extreme need, not for matter of course driving/riding. I have a bike with ABS, and YES it has activated a couple of times. (both were low speed on bad surfaces)... I guess that if you never activate them, even in an emergency situation? You are driving with skill and control.

If you believe the government propaganda, that is called "mantrol"

Theres a set of double speak that I dislike quite intensely

[caspernz]

The sad thing with this case is that guy suing HD will have a wife who'll never be the same. Hard way to learn a basic lesson in life me thinks....read the manual and familiarise yourself with your vehicles' features before heading out.....

ABS isn't the magic tool to keep you alive though. It will keep a biker in control, but if you've outmaneuvred yourself it's still gonna hurt. Don't get me wrong, have ridden bikes with ABS and it's on the list of must have features for my next one, but I agree that you'd wanna learn how to ride safely without this feature.

[rastuscat]

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Well thats up to you.

But I like to champion the right of people to make decisions that may place them at risk. People who choose to ride a motorcycle, climb a mountain or jump out of perfectly good aircraft.

As T.P.T.B. are still playing the game based on making motorcycling the safest it can be with helmets, lights on, and hi-viz.

But one day, this will quietly change.

I'm a great fan of personal choice. However, only if the result doesn't end up costing anyone else.

So, if you agree to pay for the ambulance, the plastic surgeon, the brain surgeon etc, I'll happily agree that you can ride without a helmet.

Just a thought.

[GrayWolf]

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If you believe the government propaganda, that is called "mantrol"

Theres a set of double speak that I dislike quite intensely

no I am not 'quoting' mantrol.... that is more about not exceeding speed and cornering limits... what I refer to is the training at an 'advanced' level to a higher level of awareness and driving skill than the basic..pass my test ability. cadence braking was developed way before ABS was thought of, as an already given example.