Applying vinyl - curved surfaces.

[onearmedbandit]

Hopefully someone out there can help with this one. I'm not a complete vinyl noob, imdying and I did 90% of the vinyl work on my bike, but I'm struggling trying to work a flat piece of vinyl, that must retain it's original shape, onto a surface with curves and different angles. About now you should check the photos if you think you can help.

I'm using the soapy water method, starting with the top plane with enough backing peeled back to allow it to cover the entire plane. I then smooth out any air bubbles by hand and use a hair dryer to help dry things out. Next I soap up the lower plane and remove the rest of the backing. This is where things go bad. Due to the changing angle between the two planes (it gets more acute as it travels towards the end of the tail piece) I'm ending up with 3 areas of overlap. Even though I knew the attempt in the pics was not going to work I tried to smooth out the smallest overlap (you'll notice it at the edge closest to the back of the bike) with heat and patience but to no avail.

I know it must be possible, but how can I get the desired result? I'm not keen to cut the vinyl as obviously this would leave edges. Any hints? Remember I'm doing this with one hand, so if it gets too fidgety I'll have to employ the help of a willing sucker friend.

Thanks in advance.

(I'm aware of the air bubbles too, they came about as a result of stopping work on perfecting it too much)

[Owl]

Probably want MSTRS or Slydesigns for that advice. Both work/worked in that field.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yea - need 2 hands for that sort of thing. You need one hand to hold and gently 'stretch' the vinyl towards the corners as you squeegee it down. Otherwise, as you've found, you need to cut those 'gussets'. Sometimes you need to anyway. Depends on how you hold your nose...

[Owl]

Three hands then MSTRS?

[MSTRS:Me]

In a word? Yes.

[Maha]

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Three hands then MSTRS?

Doing it with one must be an arse...as the pics demonstrate..

I take it started from the top and worked the vinyl over downwards?
If that were the case, did you start from the middle and work you way out to sides?

[Gremlin]

I'm reasonably impressed you got that far with only one hand. Definitely need more, if not 3-4 hands (perhaps I just suck).

Soapy water is fine, allows you to move it around. Start with the longest run first, needs to be worked and stretched so there is no excess when it comes to the shorter sections. Then work the middle and then out to the sides.

It does also depend on the vinyl and the shapes. Sometimes it's just too complex.

[kiwifruit]

Shoulda got a slabside

[tigertim20]

i recently vinyled some really fuck-sided pieces on my bike.
my suggestion: get your piece of vinyl, and cut through the centre of the vinyl backing, so you can peel one half of the backing off at a time.
apply the very centre first, along the horizontal crease. after that, do the bottom part, squeezing bubbles and shit out downwards, then the top going upwards.

[blackdog]

What, no one armed paper hanger jokes?

[onearmedbandit]

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Yea - need 2 hands for that sort of thing. You need one hand to hold and gently 'stretch' the vinyl towards the corners as you squeegee it down. Otherwise, as you've found, you need to cut those 'gussets'. Sometimes you need to anyway. Depends on how you hold your nose...

Figured as much. I'm going to give it one more go (before I run out of vinyl!) as per tigertim's suggestion.

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Doing it with one must be an arse...as the pics demonstrate..

I take it started from the top and worked the vinyl over downwards?
If that were the case, did you start from the middle and work you way out to sides?

Ha, yeah I laid the top down first, got that 99% mint then worked the lower section. Immediately I realised it wasn't going to work, but I decided to lay it out in the proper shape and see just how much excess there was. So what you see was intended.

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I'm reasonably impressed you got that far with only one hand. Definitely need more, if not 3-4 hands (perhaps I just suck).

Soapy water is fine, allows you to move it around. Start with the longest run first, needs to be worked and stretched so there is no excess when it comes to the shorter sections. Then work the middle and then out to the sides.

It does also depend on the vinyl and the shapes. Sometimes it's just too complex.

Cheers, I'll keep that in mind.

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Shoulda got a slabside

Had one of those, ex race bike of Trev Kirby from back in the day, must've been in storage for 10yrs. He had two actually. And yeah it would've been easier.

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i recently vinyled some really fuck-sided pieces on my bike.
my suggestion: get your piece of vinyl, and cut through the centre of the vinyl backing, so you can peel one half of the backing off at a time.
apply the very centre first, along the horizontal crease. after that, do the bottom part, squeezing bubbles and shit out downwards, then the top going upwards.

I was thinking of this approach, and you've convinced me to give it a go. Cheers.

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What, no one armed paper hanger jokes?

Either the crowd here is too intelligent to use them....or too stupid to understand them...

[SVboy]

Possibly use a heat shrink vinyl, in conjunction with the methods you are already using, and careful use of a hair dryer. Try a model aeroplane shop for the trim. Sorry oab, but you will need more hands!

[phill-k]

Rather than top to bottom start in the middle and go forward and aft, use 10% alcohol in your soap mix a drop or two of sunlight soap to 500mm also use a hair dryer to shrink the folds before they become folds. Some patience as well

[MSTRS:Me]

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Rather than top to bottom start in the middle and go forward and aft, use 10% alcohol in your soap mix a drop or two of sunlight soap to 500mm also use a hair dryer to shrink the folds before they become folds. Some patience as well

IPA (alcohol) AND soap is not necessary. One or other is fine on their own. All that either does is break the surface tension of the water to give an even film on the adhesive, reducing it's ability to stick too well before squeegeeing. There is a school of thought that maintains IPA is the better of the two, since it 'boils off' leaving no residue, whereas soap does leave a film between the surface and the adhesive which reduces the longevity of the bond. Can't say I've noticed any real difference.
Standard cast signwriter's vinyl (calendered is too thick/not conformable enough) does not shrink as such when heat is applied. What happens is the vinyl softens, stretches and conforms to convex surfaces more easily, reducing it's tendency to bunch up into gusset/folds when tension is applied as it's squeegeed.

[phill-k]

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IPA (alcohol) AND soap is not necessary. One or other is fine on their own. All that either does is break the surface tension of the water to give an even film on the adhesive, reducing it's ability to stick too well before squeegeeing. There is a school of thought that maintains IPA is the better of the two, since it 'boils off' leaving no residue, whereas soap does leave a film between the surface and the adhesive which reduces the longevity of the bond. Can't say I've noticed any real difference.
Standard cast signwriter's vinyl (calendered is too thick/not conformable enough) does not shrink as such when heat is applied. What happens is the vinyl softens, stretches and conforms to convex surfaces more easily, reducing it's tendency to bunch up into gusset/folds when tension is applied as it's squeegeed.

My comments were only based on my personal experience, I have found that soap on its own no matter how small a quantity leaves the vinyl slip sliding around the place, makes it hard to remove transfer tape if used, and will prevent working out the creases. By adding isopropyl alcohol seems to initially allow some readjustment of position but then quickly helps adhesion, a little heat then makes manipulating the creases to stay down - I did say a little heat though.