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Thread: LAMS approved bikes

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
    It sounds to me like it's saying that "it is your responsibility to ensure that you're riding a LAMS-approved motorcycle", one that's on the list, "as produced by the manufacturer", that hasn't been modified to increase the power to weight ratio. Which is a bit different from saying not to trust the list.

    Which doesn't help much with explaining why there's a bunch of bikes on there with over 200kW/T that have never been produced in any restricted form.
    You're right, I was flipping out a bit over "regardless of whether it appears on this list", which when I read it again is clearly talking about modifications. The room for interpretation on the list itself is worrying though. I wouldn't want to buy something too close to the edge, just in case they update the list in some way to remove it and kill its resale value.

    Why is the IT490 being mentioned so much, because of it's 2 stroke powerband? The numbers I can find would put it at 121 kW/T, 10 less than the DRZ400SM.

    And what are these 200 kW/T beasts I'm hearing about?

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Why should they have a list ... ???

    If you buy a bike ... and want to insure it. They will ... if you pay the premiums they ask for.

    The legality of your use of the bike, seldom comes into it.
    But when it comes to paying out......
    All it takes its a crash and the replacing the damaged parts with not OEM parts and you have likely made your bike non compliant.
    According to the LAM statement even lightening the bike by 1 gram will make it non-compliant.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by chansu View Post
    Why is the IT490 being mentioned so much, because of it's 2 stroke powerband? The numbers I can find would put it at 121 kW/T, 10 less than the DRZ400SM.
    If you have riden one you would know why, good fun 80's two stroke, wheel stands and pass anything but a petrol station

    I doubt there are any left now, all being raced in VMX
    Dale Kerrigan: If there's anything Dad loved more than serenity, it was a big two stroke engine on full throttle!

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asher View Post
    But when it comes to paying out......
    All it takes its a crash and the replacing the damaged parts with not OEM parts and you have likely made your bike non compliant.
    According to the LAM statement even lightening the bike by 1 gram will make it non-compliant.
    Not always ... it will be certainly a question you ask the insurance rep. And read the entire policy (to confirm) before signing it ...

    Any "non complient" alterations to a bike you do ... would have to be obvious and extreme to attract the attention of plod in the first place. (in which case ... you keep a low profile)
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by chansu View Post
    Why is the IT490 being mentioned so much, because of it's 2 stroke powerband? The numbers I can find would put it at 121 kW/T, 10 less than the DRZ400SM.

    And what are these 200 kW/T beasts I'm hearing about?
    Yeah, I'd never looked but it seems Yamaha claimed 46hp for the IT465 and then 35hp for the IT490 that replaced it. Strange. My understanding was that most of them had more like 60hp at the rear wheel. It's not very relevant for LAMS context anyway because it'd be a serious mission get a road legal one if you won Lotto tonight anyway.

    As for the others, well the Husaberg FS650e has a little over 45kW and a manufacturers specified weight of 112kg. With a 90kg rider that's 225kW per tonne, a full 50% over the limit. I can't be bothered checking the numbers but it wouldn't surprise me if almost all the 'Bergs on the list were over 150kW/T. Along with most of the KTMs. A 525EXC would definitely be over 200kW/T and so would Yamaha's WR450F.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Not always ... it will be certainly a question you ask the insurance rep. And read the entire policy (to confirm) before signing it ...

    Any "non complient" alterations to a bike you do ... would have to be obvious and extreme to attract the attention of plod in the first place. (in which case ... you keep a low profile)
    In the AMI one it says you aren't covered if you are riding outside your license conditions.

    a. There is no cover if your motor cycle is being ridden by or in the charge of any person who:
    i is not legally allowed to ride in New Zealand, or
    ii is not riding according to the conditions of his or her driver licence.
    Riding a bike that is not LAMS compliant would be outside your license conditions. So if they are complete bastards (and of course they are) they would insure your bike, no worries, and then not pay out when you crash. It depends how they check LAMS compliance. If they have their own information which is better than what's published on the NZTA list, they could sting you when you have a bike that technically is on the list. Because:

    LAMS will allow Class 6 learner and restricted licence holders to ride motorcycles:
    - with a maximum power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts per tonne AND
    - an upper engine capacity of 660cc AND
    - that are published on the LAMS-approved list on the NZTA website
    (from the FAQ here)

    Thinking from a legal standpoint, it is possible to satisfy the last two criteria and not the first one.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigertim20 View Post
    ... the acc component money for which is supposed to cover incidents ON the road
    There is NO distinction where the ACC levy covers ... on or off the road.

    The ACC component is in motorcycle Licencing ... thus is attached to all road legal bikes. It matters little where you have your accident. ACC will cover you in the event you have an accident ... anywhere. The ACC levy in the licencing process ... is just them taking money, from where they can ... under current ledgislation. The levy is not the only source of revenue for ACC.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  8. #158
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    should be interesting to see how they go about testing if your bike is lams comliant, if take off the logo what cop is going to know the difference between a branded muffler and a stock one?

    but....what's the market for aftermarket exhausts that look a lot like stock ones? haha
    Can I scream?

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by chansu View Post
    In the AMI one it says you aren't covered if you are riding outside your license conditions.
    If you are with AMI ... bugger. But I would read up and check other companys policys ...
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    If you are with AMI ... bugger. But I would read up and check other companys policys ...
    I'll have to do that. Though I'd be shocked if anyone would still cover you if you were doing something illegal.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave- View Post
    should be interesting to see how they go about testing if your bike is lams comliant, if take off the logo what cop is going to know the difference between a branded muffler and a stock one?
    Apart from the odd cop that came down in the last shower ... (still a few about) the aftermarket companies go to great effort to make them look anything BUT standard. Standard exaust systems have the manufacturers name stamped onto them ... with the part number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave- View Post
    but....what's the market for aftermarket exhausts that look a lot like stock ones? haha
    Non existent ... the reason for aftermarket stuff is for performance AND "different" look to standard.
    When life throws you a curve ... Lean into it ...

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
    Yeah, I'd never looked but it seems Yamaha claimed 46hp for the IT465 and then 35hp for the IT490 that replaced it. Strange. My understanding was that most of them had more like 60hp at the rear wheel. It's not very relevant for LAMS context anyway because it'd be a serious mission get a road legal one if you won Lotto tonight anyway.

    As for the others, well the Husaberg FS650e has a little over 45kW and a manufacturers specified weight of 112kg. With a 90kg rider that's 225kW per tonne, a full 50% over the limit. I can't be bothered checking the numbers but it wouldn't surprise me if almost all the 'Bergs on the list were over 150kW/T. Along with most of the KTMs. A 525EXC would definitely be over 200kW/T and so would Yamaha's WR450F.
    Interesting. It's almost like they didn't check the offroad bikes at all. Or perhaps the supplied manufacturer figures were on the low side. The usual bike spec sites seem to not list the HP of many offroad bikes as though it's hard to find that info.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by chansu View Post
    Interesting. It's almost like they didn't check the offroad bikes at all. Or perhaps the supplied manufacturer figures were on the low side. The usual bike spec sites seem to not list the HP of many offroad bikes as though it's hard to find that info.
    Manufacturers often don't publish power figures for off road bikes (and cruisers) so it'd be interesting to know what figures governments are using.

    There was a thread a while ago about an Aussie learner who bought an Aprilia SXV450 as a first bike off their LAMS list. There was no indication that it was restricted in any way. The Australian LAMS list also includes the SXV550 which with 70hp and 122kg is damn near 250kW/T.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender EnZed View Post
    Manufacturers often don't publish power figures for off road bikes (and cruisers) so it'd be interesting to know what figures governments are using.

    There was a thread a while ago about an Aussie learner who bought an Aprilia SXV450 as a first bike off their LAMS list. There was no indication that it was restricted in any way. The Australian LAMS list also includes the SXV550 which with 70hp and 122kg is damn near 250kW/T.
    Dear god. At least NZTA are giving the impression of wanting to continually update the list. I only see this happening when new bikes are introduced though, which our Ducati situation hints at.

  15. #165
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    The Husaberg FS650 and Aprilia SXV550 are certainly not tame learner toys... The SXV550 was a bloody hooligan toy when I took it overnight.

    Quote Originally Posted by FJRider View Post
    Non existent ... the reason for aftermarket stuff is for performance AND "different" look to standard.
    Speak for yourself... I have a set of cans on the Hornet that you'd be hard pressed to know are not stock. The heat shields are in place etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Omorogbe from UK MSN on the KTM990SM
    It's barking mad and if it doesn't turn you into a complete loon within half an hour of cocking a leg over the lofty 875mm seat height, I'll eat my Arai.

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