Thinking of getting vaccinated?

[oldrider]

Interesting if you want to believe what an acupuncturaist says, who also claims he can cure cancer using bicarbonate of soda maple syrup.

No body is arguing with you! it was clearly addressed on his opinion piece!

[flyingcrocodile46]

3,500 cases of Infants suffering from permanent deformity and Brain Damge. Up from 147 - which by some quick maths is an increase in 23 times.

Yup, Definitely not something to be concerned about.

Wow! Your response is a perfect illustration of Katmans concern. Oh how easily the brain dead are fooled. Not a shred of evidence to support the allegation yet there you are... swept away on the current of baseless fear just like a muppet.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Why?

What reason do you have for this position?

As conjecture - it seems like a variation on Hippy Logic - 'Its not Natural, therefore it's bad'

Maybe you should watch the video Yokel posted. 4 years of studies showed a leap in Microcephaly cases long before any reports of the Zika virus being concocted to explain the leap. So yeah! the similar leap in pesticide use appears to correlate with the increase in Microcephaly (mostly unreported for the last 4 years).

[RDJ]

Maybe you should watch the video Yokel posted. 4 years of studies showed a leap in Microcephaly cases long before any reports of the Zika virus being concocted to explain the leap. So yeah! the similar leap in pesticide use appears to correlate with the increase in Microcephaly (mostly unreported for the last 4 years).

It's almost certain that not every case of microcephaly is or was due to Zika infection during pregnancy. The logical difficulty with your allegation that the seeker virus was concocted to explain the leap in cases, is that even if the vast mosquito when conspiracy was real, the simple lack of testing for Zika during the rise in microcephaly cases means we can't prove a retrospective hypothesis (Zika virus testing is only possible during the first week of the infection; tests for antibodies can be done later, but they may yield false positives if the woman has had dengue, yellow fever or even a yellow fever vaccine). Because the majority were in urban environments where pesticides weren't used, the hypothesis that pesticides rather than the virus carried by the mosquito is the cause, appears unlikely.

So for the moment the evidence is circumstantial, but it is still evidence. there may be confounding factors, such as simultaneous infection with other illnesses (for example, rubella, toxoplasmosis, or even CMV, each of which are associated with microcephaly) or something different about the physiology of pregnancy in Brazilian mothers in the current polluted environment, which has contributed to the recent spike; and yes, it may be that Zika virus is not the main cause, just the most readily identifiable cause... About three million babies are born in Brazil each year. Normally, about 150 cases of microcephaly are reported, and Brazil says it is investigating nearly 4,000 cases. While reported cases usually (always) increase when people are alerted to a potential health crisis, we can't safely assume that previous underreporting was so bad and is the only explanation.

On the other hand, if anyone believes that so many researchers will tell lies about how a disease is disseminated just to put money in the pockets of vaccine manufacturers... then the old saying applies: "you can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into".

[flyingcrocodile46]

It's almost certain that not every case of microcephaly is or was due to Zika infection during pregnancy. The logical difficulty with your allegation that the seeker virus was concocted to explain the leap in cases, is that even if the vast mosquito when conspiracy was real, the simple lack of testing for Zika during the rise in microcephaly cases means we can't prove a retrospective hypothesis (Zika virus testing is only possible during the first week of the infection; tests for antibodies can be done later, but they may yield false positives if the woman has had dengue, yellow fever or even a yellow fever vaccine). Because the majority were in urban environments where pesticides weren't used, the hypothesis that pesticides rather than the virus carried by the mosquito is the cause, appears unlikely.

So for the moment the evidence is circumstantial, but it is still evidence. there may be confounding factors, such as simultaneous infection with other illnesses (for example, rubella, toxoplasmosis, or even CMV, each of which are associated with microcephaly) or something different about the physiology of pregnancy in Brazilian mothers in the current polluted environment, which has contributed to the recent spike; and yes, it may be that Zika virus is not the main cause, just the most readily identifiable cause... About three million babies are born in Brazil each year. Normally, about 150 cases of microcephaly are reported, and Brazil says it is investigating nearly 4,000 cases. While reported cases usually (always) increase when people are alerted to a potential health crisis, we can't safely assume that previous underreporting was so bad and is the only explanation.

On the other hand, if anyone believes that so many researchers will tell lies about how a disease is disseminated just to put money in the pockets of vaccine manufacturers... then the old saying applies: "you can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into".

An intelligent and well reasoned post.

[Katman]

http://www.collective-evolution.com/...l-of-all-time/

[Woodman]

Wow! Your response is a perfect illustration of Katmans concern. Oh how easily the brain dead are fooled. Not a shred of evidence to support the allegation yet there you are... swept away on the current of baseless fear just like a muppet.

yeahbut fear is not necessarily a bad thing, its been a pretty good survival mechanism.

An intelligent and well reasoned post.

I agree.

[Akzle]

Because the majority were in urban environments where pesticides weren't used, the hypothesis that pesticides rather than the virus carried by the mosquito is the cause, appears unlikely.

because everyone in town grows their own organic veges and shit :duh:

[Katman]

because everyone in town grows their own organic veges and shit :duh:

Go easy on him.

I think he got his honorary doctorate for being good at basketball.

[RDJ]

http://www.collective-evolution.com/...l-of-all-time/

FFS. Look at the clinical evidence before posting this type of feculent scaremongering.

Before the Gardasil HPV vaccine was licensed it was studied in 5 clinical trials involving over 21,000 girls and women ages 9-26. Since that licensing, for obvious reasons (obvious to anybody but a card-carrying conspiracy theorist) both the CDC and the FDA have been closely monitoring people who received the HPV vaccine. As of the time of writing there is no evidence that reports of serious adverse events reported for Gardasil that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine.

From June 2006 to March 2013, approximately 57 million doses of HPV vaccines were distributed and approximately 22,000 adverse event reports was submitted. As noted in a 2013 CDC follow-up announcement, 92% of those reports were classified as "non-serious," the other 8% generally encompassed symptoms such as "headache, nausea, vomiting, fatigue, dizziness, syncope, and generalized weakness," and adverse events reported were consistent with those identified during the vaccine's pre-licensure clinical trials.

If you want to cite such apparent consequences, please also be aware that any adverse event which follows a patient being vaccinated, whether or not it can possibly be linked to the vaccine, is recorded as an adverse event. So if one of the young ladies who receive the vaccine is injured or killed in a car accident, that data point is entered on the database as an outcome for that vaccinee. if you have a cup of coffee in the morning and then fall off your bike in the afternoon, are you going to link the two? (yeah, you probably would want to blame Big Coffee...).

The CDC also noted that in 2011, the VSD (Vaccine Safety Datalink) studied the occurrence of specific adverse events following more than 600,000 doses of Gardasil. Adverse events in the HPV vaccinated population were compared to another appropriate population (such as adolescents vaccinated with vaccines other than HPV) and included Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), stroke, venous thromboembolism (VTE), appendicitis, seizures, syncope (fainting), allergic reactions, and a potentially life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. None of these adverse events were found to be any more common after HPV vaccination than among the comparison groups.

if you vaccinate or treat or do anything with any statistically significantly large number of people, adverse events up to and including death will occur as they would have a net population without your intervention. What you need to figure out is whether your intervention increased that baseline adverse event rate. The short answer at the moment, is it hasn't.

Not unreasonably, when a product gets bad press (yes thank you Jenny McCarthy / sarc), the number of reported "adverse events" rises and there is no way to tell from that publicity alone if a particular side effect is linked to the vaccine. Some people will die after any vaccination, not because vaccines cause death but because people, even babies and adolescents, die with inevitable regularity every damn day of the year.

What researchers are always looking for is any link between adverse events following vaccination, with the vaccine, and so far, that hasn't happened. Could this possibly happen in the future? Possibly, but on the available evidence, not probably. Has the vaccine possibly avoided nasty cancers in the people who have received? Likely, on the available evidence.

Now, unless you want to believe that all researchers are inherently moneygrubbing liars simply seeking to line their own pockets and those of their overlords Big Pharma - oh, wait a minute, what am I thinking, of course you do.

Never mind.

[mashman]

FFS. Look at the clinical evidence before posting this type of feculent scaremongering.

Before the Gardasil HPV vaccine was licensed it was studied in 5 clinical trials involving over 21,000 girls and women ages 9-26. Since that licensing, for obvious reasons (obvious to anybody but a card-carrying conspiracy theorist) both the CDC and the FDA have been closely monitoring people who received the HPV vaccine. As of the time of writing there is no evidence that reports of serious adverse events reported for Gardasil that would suggest that they were caused by the vaccine.

From June 2006 to March 2013, approximately 57 million doses of HPV vaccines were distributed and approximately 22,000 adverse event reports was submitted. As noted in a 2013 CDC follow-up announcement, 92% of those reports were classified as "non-serious," the other 8% generally encompassed symptoms such as "headache, nausea, vomiting, fatigue, dizziness, syncope, and generalized weakness," and adverse events reported were consistent with those identified during the vaccine's pre-licensure clinical trials.

If you want to cite such apparent consequences, please also be aware that any adverse event which follows a patient being vaccinated, whether or not it can possibly be linked to the vaccine, is recorded as an adverse event. So if one of the young ladies who receive the vaccine is injured or killed in a car accident, that data point is entered on the database as an outcome for that vaccinee. if you have a cup of coffee in the morning and then fall off your bike in the afternoon, are you going to link the two? (yeah, you probably would want to blame Big Coffee...).

The CDC also noted that in 2011, the VSD (Vaccine Safety Datalink) studied the occurrence of specific adverse events following more than 600,000 doses of Gardasil. Adverse events in the HPV vaccinated population were compared to another appropriate population (such as adolescents vaccinated with vaccines other than HPV) and included Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), stroke, venous thromboembolism (VTE), appendicitis, seizures, syncope (fainting), allergic reactions, and a potentially life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. None of these adverse events were found to be any more common after HPV vaccination than among the comparison groups.

if you vaccinate or treat or do anything with any statistically significantly large number of people, adverse events up to and including death will occur as they would have a net population without your intervention. What you need to figure out is whether your intervention increased that baseline adverse event rate. The short answer at the moment, is it hasn't.

Not unreasonably, when a product gets bad press (yes thank you Jenny McCarthy / sarc), the number of reported "adverse events" rises and there is no way to tell from that publicity alone if a particular side effect is linked to the vaccine. Some people will die after any vaccination, not because vaccines cause death but because people, even babies and adolescents, die with inevitable regularity every damn day of the year.

What researchers are always looking for is any link between adverse events following vaccination, with the vaccine, and so far, that hasn't happened. Could this possibly happen in the future? Possibly, but on the available evidence, not probably. Has the vaccine possibly avoided nasty cancers in the people who have received? Likely, on the available evidence.

Now, unless you want to believe that all researchers are inherently moneygrubbing liars simply seeking to line their own pockets and those of their overlords Big Pharma - oh, wait a minute, what am I thinking, of course you do.

Never mind.

I predict a coming your way in the near future.

Aw bro... the original to "Never Mind" was much more entertaining.

[Katman]

Now, unless you want to believe that all researchers are inherently moneygrubbing liars simply seeking to line their own pockets and those of their overlords Big Pharma - oh, wait a minute, what am I thinking, of course you do.

Dude, it's not like I 'want' to.

(Hope you don't mind me asking)..... Are you American?

[RDJ]

You're out of luck - I can't be deported, I am an indigenous Kiwi.

[Woodman]

Dude, it's not like I 'want' to.

Why don't you just like not think about shit?

[mashman]

Why don't you just like not think about shit?

That's your job