Market value?

[Mike.Gayner]

Bike was brand new so he is claiming it's gone way down in value over 4 monthss

That's a pretty important point - the "market value" is literally what the marketplace deems it's worth. The marketplace won't pay full new price for a used bike. Hate to tell you bud, but a 4 month old bike isn't worth the same as a new bike. Period.

edit: I should also note that insurance companies deal with this shit every day. EVERYONE thinks that their vehicle is worth more because of x, y and z. Insurance companies aren't going to apply whatever twisted logic leads you to believe that your used bike is worth the same as a new bike.

[discotex]

Assuming your definition is correct, no willing buyer would pay factory new price for a 4 month old bike. IRD depreciation using diminishing value would be $3k in the first year on a $10k bike so ~$1k in 4 months. That should be your yardstick for negotiations.

[ldcroberts]

That's a pretty important point - the "market value" is literally what the marketplace deems it's worth. The marketplace won't pay full new price for a used bike. Hate to tell you bud, but a 4 month old bike isn't worth the same as a new bike. Period.

A beer someone has taken a single sip out of is worth less in the "market place", go knock someones beer and give them next to nothing in recompense (because 2nd hand beer is worth way way less) and tell them they have "twisted logic" in thinking their beer was worth what they paid for it earlier.

I believe it's the insurance companies who have twisted the logic here - this may be most of them in New Zealand, but they can still be educated and changed. You can't compare the value to a "2nd" owner to that of the "1st" owner - it's faulty logic. The more owners on a bike the less people will pay to buy it sure, but what's that got to do with someones responsibility to make things right?

To illustrate this further, lets say nobody buys second hand bikes, there is no market (maybe some new legislation outlaws it). What then when you get wiped out? they still have to make it right somehow. Same with beer. Same with a restaurant meal you've had one bite out of. Etc. I think the fact that the 2nd hand value is a big number has people confused, it's still not comparable.

[Gremlin]

Clearly you're new at this... insurance plays this game almost all the time. They probably have a policy to low ball everyone, knowing that a certain percentage will accept and move on, and the others will have to be offered more.

Tell them the payout isn't market value (or provide proof of a similar bike, similar condition, it's value - better hope you're right) and you refuse to accept. You want your bike repaired instead.

It's a game... they play difficult, you play difficult back then you settle in the middle somewhere.

[ldcroberts]

if they are really playing that game then my best move is to take them to the district court, get fair value out of them and then ask the court to put a punitive fine on them to prevent them doing it to other people, as I think there will be other people around with a sour taste in their mouths and I don't just want it to be fair for me, rather fair for everyone.

[imdying]

No, don't play all your best cards up front. They expect you to push back, so do so.

The value of that bike appears to be $9899 ORC + delivery (advert says free shipping, and I assume there is no difference between 2013 and 2014... your bike was a 13 first registered in 14 yes?).

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-632407635.htm

Send them that link, tell them that is what you want, and that how much they pay all up is entirely their business. See what floats back.

[Supermac Jr]

The words from my policy...

If there is total or constructive total Loss occurring within 12 months of the Insured Motorcycle being first registered as a new motorcycle, We
will at Our option under Section 1 either:

(i) provide a new replacement motorcycle; or
(ii) reimburse the price for which a new replacement motorcycle of similar make and model could be purchased

whichever is the lesser of (i) or (ii).

You will need to fight for Dollar you want. i'd be arguing for a replacement as there aren't any 'similar make and model' bikes around - none on Trade me. Good luck with this one!

[HenryDorsetCase]

It's a 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 300, special edition with ABS, Burnt Orange. 1700kms on the clock, 2 months left on the inital rego. So it's barely run in (runs in at 1600km) carefully as per manufacturers instructions (never again will I do this, 60km top speed is painful for so long). Paid $10,349 on road, they are offering $9000 - which is probably about right for what someone would sell at if forced to sell, but there are none for sale of course.

International law says it has to be fair market value (seller and buyer happily agree) - again this will never happen on a near new bike due to the idea of the other person "tainting" the bike by riding it poorly which we all have when we think about a bike we haven't seen the previous rider of so the buyer is always wanting to pay way less and the seller wants what they paid back.

Oncoming car turned straight across into side road without seeing me, no time to stop - i started emergency braking as soon as I saw him start turning - 100% his fault already agreed by everyone.

Repair bill is $13,000

They are trying to fuck you. Get lawyered up. I have a recommendation for you: a mate of mine is a specialist insurance lawyer. Its what he does. Its all he does. He will tell you. I have PM'ed you his website. My serious suggeston is that you talk to someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about. That isnt me. Its not any of these internet people (if indeed they are people and not just the voices in my head).

[SMOKEU]

So it's barely run in (runs in at 1600km) carefully as per manufacturers instructions (never again will I do this, 60km top speed is painful for so long).

You should run an engine in reasonably hard, not nanna it around.

[Tazz]

They are trying to fuck you. Get lawyered up. I have a recommendation for you: a mate of mine is a specialist insurance lawyer. Its what he does. Its all he does. He will tell you. I have PM'ed you his website. My serious suggeston is that you talk to someone who knows what the fuck they're talking about. That isnt me. Its not any of these internet people (if indeed they are people and not just the voices in my head).

Good advice, however if he took a grand less would he still be in the same position as he would with a win with a lawyer....minus their fees?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Good advice, however if he took a grand less would he still be in the same position as he would with a win with a lawyer....minus their fees?

I have no idea. but from my skim read of the thread wasn't he being rorted to the tune of $3k?

[Mike.Gayner]

A beer someone has taken a single sip out of is worth less in the "market place", go knock someones beer and give them next to nothing in recompense (because 2nd hand beer is worth way way less) and tell them they have "twisted logic" in thinking their beer was worth what they paid for it earlier.

I believe it's the insurance companies who have twisted the logic here - this may be most of them in New Zealand, but they can still be educated and changed. You can't compare the value to a "2nd" owner to that of the "1st" owner - it's faulty logic. The more owners on a bike the less people will pay to buy it sure, but what's that got to do with someones responsibility to make things right?

To illustrate this further, lets say nobody buys second hand bikes, there is no market (maybe some new legislation outlaws it). What then when you get wiped out? they still have to make it right somehow. Same with beer. Same with a restaurant meal you've had one bite out of. Etc. I think the fact that the 2nd hand value is a big number has people confused, it's still not comparable.

By this fucked up logic, if I were the first and original owner of my 1994 BMW and it was written off, the insurance company would have to write me a cheque of its original cost price, something like $80k.

[Mike.Gayner]

if they are really playing that game then my best move is to take them to the district court, get fair value out of them and then ask the court to put a punitive fine on them to prevent them doing it to other people, as I think there will be other people around with a sour taste in their mouths and I don't just want it to be fair for me, rather fair for everyone.

Have fun with that - let's see what the court has to say when you tell them your second hand bike has the same market value as a new one.

Look, you even said in your original post, market value has to be the price a willing buyer would pay given all the facts. No willing buyer would give you a new bike price for your second hand bike. No insurance company in the world will agree that a 4 month old bike is worth the same as a new one.

Shit happens mate, but everyone knows new vehicles depreciate fast.

[Jantar]

....
Repair bill is $13,000

So ask for $13,000. Or ask them to replace the bike with one of the same age and mileage.

[tigertim20]

Insurance companies will try anything to pay as little as they can.
Given that its only 4 months old, I would give them 3 options:
1) Pay you what you paid for the bike new, plus the cost of replacing your damaged gear
2) ive you a brand new bike exactly the same off the shop floor, along with new gear to replace that which was damaged
3) see ya in court.

If your bike was say, a year old, and / or had 10k on the clock, I would accept that a payout should be less, but there isnt really any hard and fast rule with insurance companies, other than the acknowledgement that they will lowball you, and you either accept or negotiate.

best of luck!