Market value?

[ldcroberts]

well that's how the market works. If there aren't any for sale (which there aren't), then you have to approach someone and offer enough that they'll accept.

Show me people that will accept the "guess" at market value of 9k and I'll accept and look to buy it off them.

If they all say no they want more, then the market value is higher. That's high school economics.

[Mike.Gayner]

That's high school economics.

Don't leave school, kids.

[discotex]

To test this theory I contacted other bike owners and asked them how much they would be willing to sell a bike for after 4 months of low use, and everyone said the original purchase price - nobody was willing to sell for $1500 less than they had invested in the bike after such a short period of time had elapsed.

Plenty of people thought it was a fair offer.... You trying to bullshit them is an amateur move.

Certainly I've made enquiries about purchasing a pre-run in bike and I've been quoted $11k or more for this for exactly the same make and model as mine, with exactly the same kms etc.

You'll be wanting some written quotes to back that up... I'm sure these guys have heard of Trademe...

$9890 for a brand spanker. I'm sure a good negotiator could get it for $9k cash http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-718297640.htm

ORC is not something you can ask for as it is basically plates (which you never actually legally own) and rego which gets used up in the first 3 months... If the bike is written off with rego outstanding you could ask NZTA if they will pro-rata refund.. Expecting to get servicing costs is laughable and even mentioning it means they now know you have no clue.

$9k cash in the hand is a *very* fair offer. Frankly I'm amazed they didn't lowball at $7-8 given you're an unsinured party. Perhaps you should tell us who they are as they're clearly a great company for settling claims with.

Then there's this pearl that just makes you look like a complete cock.

Looking at the insurance market this is also backed up as these days people place a value on having a policy that replaces a less than 12 month old vehicle with brand new - this is because the owners consider it new for the first year and expect a replacement, so they insist on insurance cover that meets this (reasonable) expectation.

These people expect a replacement BECAUSE THEY PAY FOR FULL ACCIDENT COVER and know it's in their policy

You know what... If you'd insured your bike you'd have got a new one by now too.. But you didn't, so you won't.

If you deduct the ~$1k of insurance you've saved by not paying for full cover then you're doing great with a $9k payout. Shut the fuck up, stop being a baby, and take it

[FJRider]

If they all say no they want more, then the market value is higher. That's high school economics.

You went to the wrong school then ...

Market value is not what you want/expect ... it's what people are prepared (and willing) to PAY ....

NOT ... what you will accept/demand ....

Greedy people will always lose. Only the amounts will vary ....

[ldcroberts]

Plenty of people thought it was a fair offer.... You trying to bullshit them is an amateur move.

Nobody thought it was a fair offer to make them part with their bike, some people thought it was about right for an insurance company to offer - perhaps think about the difference.

ORC is not something you can ask for as it is basically plates (which you never actually legally own) and rego which gets used up in the first 3 months... If the bike is written off with rego outstanding you could ask NZTA if they will pro-rata refund.. Expecting to get servicing costs is laughable and even mentioning it means they now know you have no clue.

insurance companies becomes owner when it is written off, they get the plates and the refund if any. I could perhaps rightly go and take out the oil as personal property if they don't pay for this, this will affect their salvage value on the bike I suppose

These people expect a replacement BECAUSE THEY PAY FOR FULL ACCIDENT COVER and know it's in their policy

actually they want it in their policy because they don't want to be in a position where they feel they are losing money (which is my situation).

If you deduct the ~$1k of insurance you've saved by not paying for full cover then you're doing great with a $9k payout. Shut the fuck up, stop being a baby, and take it

I had it fully insured right up to a week before the accident with full cover, then my policy came up for review and I changed to 3rd party to save $400 per year. I only saved 1 week off full cover (F All)

[ldcroberts]

You went to the wrong school then ...

Market value is not what you want/expect ... it's what people are prepared (and willing) to PAY ....

NOT ... what you will accept/demand ....

If I want to replace it then I have to PAY what other people will ACCEPT. Market value at work - there aren't any for sale at 9k, so therefore I would have to pay more to get one, therefore the market value is higher. The market value is the price point where a realistic sale could take place.

show me that bike for 9k On road with low kms and I'll shut up.

[FJRider]

well that's how the market works. If there aren't any for sale (which there aren't), then you have to approach someone and offer enough that they'll accept.

Show me people that will accept the "guess" at market value of 9k and I'll accept and look to buy it off them.

If they all say no they want more, then the market value is higher. That's high school economics.

Here's how the market really works ...

You have an item for sale. You mention how much you want for that item. If the "Market Value" is higher that what you've asked .. expect a lot of interest. If the "Market Value" is lower than asked price ... you will be ignored.

If no similar items are for sale ... there are two possibilities why.

1. Owners are happy with what they have and don't want to sell.

2. Owners want to "Trade Up" to get their next "Item" as they know resale value/expectancy is low.

Reality is a bitch kid ...

[FJRider]

If I want to replace it then I have to PAY what other people will ACCEPT. Market value at work - there aren't any for sale at 9k, so therefore I would have to pay more to get one, therefore the market value is higher. The market value is the price point where a realistic sale could take place.

show me that bike for 9k On road with low kms and I'll shut up.

As YOU said ... there are NOT any for sale. Therefore NO "Market Value" can be known. The best you can do is get a written statement from a few motorcycle dealers testifying to expected value of the motorcycle you HAD ... should it have been offered for sale.

What YOU would expect to pay(or be paid) is not "Market Vale" ... merely YOUR guess ...

The 300 Ninja's go well ... but they're not that special.

Accept and move on UP ... and get your OWN insurance for the next bike you get.

Refuse ... and the photos of it nice and shiny ... you will have forever ...

ENJOY ...

[ldcroberts]

Here's how the market really works ...

You have an item for sale. You mention how much you want for that item. If the "Market Value" is higher that what you've asked .. expect a lot of interest. If the "Market Value" is lower than asked price ... you will be ignored.

If no similar items are for sale ... there are two possibilities why.

1. Owners are happy with what they have and don't want to sell.

2. Owners want to "Trade Up" to get their next "Item" as they know resale value/expectancy is low.

Reality is a bitch kid ...

you're talking about how a buyers market works. There is a shortage of these for sale 2nd hand so it's a sellers market, works the opposite.

[FJRider]

you're talking about how a buyers market works. There is a shortage of these for sale 2nd hand so it's a sellers market, works the opposite.

Correct me if I'm wrong kid ... YOU are NOT selling anything ....


You have NOTHING WORTH SELLING.

Nothing being offered/available for sale does not automatically equate to a "Shortage" ...

YOU do not want to buy ... YOU want to be given ...

The onus of proof of value (your wreck once was) is for you to do ...

Good luck with that kid ...

[local]

I think you have a couple of valid points, although the letter could have done with explaining those a little better and leaving some of the guff out.

My thoughts:

Their policy is to pay out for a new vehicle (for their insured) if the vehicle is less than 12 months old. This is a pretty standard clause across insurers so suggests a market practice. It also suggests that if you had insurance your company would ensure you got that, and then claim it from the other company.

You didn't do yourself any favours in claiming regarding the first service, but I think I see where you are coming from. Buying a brand new bike you are immediately 1000km away from the cost of a service. Whereas your bike was past that point, and the next service cost is 4500km(?) away. Was that what you were meaning?

Being uninsured does put you on the negotiation back foot, in that insurer to insurer dealings always rely on a level of interdependence. You have no such interdependence with whoever you are dealing with. What amuses me is that when an uninsured party is hit by an insured one, the uninsured party is always treated like crap by the insurer (in this case at least medium quality crap). What they don't do is view them as potential customers, or consider the bad publicity that may arise from the dealings - yet spend millions on ads wanking on about how they look after their customers, and why you should switch to them.

I'd be inclined to go back with a counter offer in the mid-high 9s, accepting some loss on the value of the bike but not take a 4 figure hit after 4 months. I'd lodge a disputes tribunal application if that doesn't get anywhere, tribunal referees do refer to law but also apply a level of fairness to their rulings. Bear in mind it may take a while for a hearing date though. Our litigation team at work lodge a number of disputes applications, and often the insurers cave in the day before the hearing.

[Tazz]

Fark that noise. Don't bend over and get shafted like the masses just because they're used to it. If you've got the time and know how, fight for fairness.

If not the lawyer way still isn't a bad idea and you even got a recommendation for someone that specializes in this. Any good one will tell you straight up (and actually have knowledge on it rather than most on Kiwibiker, exhibit A further above coming from someone who doesn't even know how to check his tyre pressure correctly) what is what. Who knows, you might get the same advice as you have had from a few people on here, but at least you'll know it's good advice (well hopefully!) You will have to pay fees through and they have come down in price if you wish to replace.

Comprehensively insured yourself or not, someone farked up your stuff and THEY are insured to sort you out. Why should you be left out of pocket for their mess. While it is the way of the would to take a hit on these things sometimes if you think you can do better and have time to fight it go nuts because in an ideal world this is how it would be done, we're just used to getting shafted so other can make money off us.

When it is all said and done though you are not in as bad position as you could be which is something that should help you rest a little easier.

That's my angry 'coffee withdrawal fueled somewhat contradictory' rant anyway to go in the retards of KB pile at your leisure =)

[FJRider]

and THEY are insured to sort you out.

They are insured ... HE WASN'T. They have insurance to sort their own shit out dipstick.

[DR650gary]

As an uninsured third party (not a smart place to be) you are only entitled to indemnity value which is cost price less depreciation. That is not exactly market value but that is a term that is often used to explain what is being offered. If you believe there is no depreciation on a vehicle the moment it is taken out the door you are being naive.

This listing is for a new bike but last years model

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-581748978.htm

and this seems similar to yours

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...-721513470.htm

so I would take the $9K and go buy one of them. Perhaps this time you may be wise enough to insure it so if you are unlucky enough to hit some other uninsured person they may be able to chase you around a bit.

Cheers

[sil3nt]

How do you not have insurance on a brand new $10k bike?