Is this illegal? Can't find any info on this

[MVnut]

As at 1 January 2014 from the horses mouth:




Part 4
Stopping and giving way





4.1 Giving way where vehicles are controlled by stop sign or give-way sign


(1) A driver approaching or entering an intersection on a roadway where the vehicles that are moving in the direction in which that driver is travelling are controlled by a stop sign at or near the intersection must—

(a) stop his or her vehicle before entering the path of any possible vehicle flow at such a position as to be able to ascertain whether the way is clear for the driver to proceed


And from the road code:
Stop sign

At an intersection controlled by a Stop sign:
• come to a complete stop (do not just slow down)
• stop where you can see vehicles coming from all directions
• stay stopped until you have given way to all other vehicles (this includes cycles and motorcycles, etc)

Good luck if you have an accident I very much doubt your law will be on your side in front of a Judge

[Gremlin]

Good luck if you have an accident I very much doubt your law will be on your side in front of a Judge

Uh... the law is the law. If you have an accident, then as always, where do both sides sit in lieu of the law.

If you stopped, but then pulled out and someone hit you, then you'd likely be at fault (assuming a conventional situation) for failing to give way. Nothing has been said about stopping somewhere, then pulling straight out in front of traffic??

Plus, it's not "his law". It's "the" law. Judges can't over-rule law, but a decision can clarify law.

[R650R]

Good luck if you have an accident I very much doubt your law will be on your side in front of a Judge

: : :

Uh... the law is the law...
Plus, it's not "his law". It's "the" law. Judges can't over-rule law, but a decision can clarify law.

Cheers

[Berries]

...you have not stopped if you have been (stopped) behind another vehicle (with full visibility) and then proceed through.

How so?

It is a simple rule. Once you have stopped (at the line) you may proceed when the way is clear.

Oddly enough neither the line or the sign are mentioned in the legislation.

why do so many get this wrong, it is not open to interpretation.

That's exactly what I thought when I read your post.

[Erelyes]

I very much doubt your law will be on your side in front of a Judge

[MVnut]

OK well I will pose another question : if I am waiting stopped at the front of the queue and wanting to turn right, and you are the 2nd vehicle on the opposing Stop sign (with both the front vehicle and you wanting to go straight across the intersection.....I obviously must give right of way to the front vehicle but do I have right of way over you or vice versa. No traffic is to be seen on the road we wish to cross at any time.

[BlackSheepLogic]

OK well I will pose another question : if I am waiting stopped at the front of the queue and wanting to turn right, and you are the 2nd vehicle on the opposing Stop sign (with both the front vehicle and you wanting to go straight across the intersection.....I obviously must give right of way to the front vehicle but do I have right of way over you or vice versa. No traffic is to be seen on the road we wish to cross at any time.

Since I have my road code out today (different discussion) -

The give way rule applicable is:
If you are turning, give way to vehicles not turing. There is a perfectly good pictorial in the road code of this exact situation (page 161, 2014/2015 Road code of motorcyclist).

[MVnut]

Since I have my road code out today (different discussion) -

The give way rule applicable is:
If you are turning, give way to vehicles not turing. There is a perfectly good pictorial in the road code of this exact situation (page 161, 2014/2015 Road code of motorcyclist).

Before I posted the above question, I went to the Police Station for their opinion. Yes I (the right turning vehicle) give way to the first opposing straight through vehicle....and then the 2nd opposing straight through vehicle is under obligation to give way to me, assuming I had started to proceed and turn behind the 1st vehicle before the 2nd vehicle had entered the intersection

[Gremlin]

OK well I will pose another question : if I am waiting stopped at the front of the queue and wanting to turn right, and you are the 2nd vehicle on the opposing Stop sign (with both the front vehicle and you wanting to go straight across the intersection.....I obviously must give right of way to the front vehicle but do I have right of way over you or vice versa. No traffic is to be seen on the road we wish to cross at any time.

Assuming you are both at Stop signs (as there is an order of priority between give way and stop signs etc), then they both have right of way, as they are not turning and you are.

[MVnut]

Also the Police pointed out to me that while the 2nd vehicle may proceed through a Stop sign 'slowly' ....in other words don't gas it from position 2, the third etc vehicles in the queue may NOT proceed until stopped again. Apparently position 3 is never in a good enough position to make the call on safety etc......from the horse's mouth so to speak

[R650R]

Before I posted the above question, I went to the Police Station for their opinion. Yes I (the right turning vehicle) give way to the first opposing straight through vehicle....and then the 2nd opposing straight through vehicle is under obligation to give way to me, assuming I had started to proceed and turn behind the 1st vehicle before the 2nd vehicle had entered the intersection

Did they schedule a resit of your license while you were there? Of course if you are already entered into an intersection, eg past the lines and rolling then any other vehicle that has yet to move off has to give way.
But if your both in a Mexican standoff behind your respective yellow lines, turning always gives way to straight ahead.
All this of course is superceeded by prison rules mode whereby you give way to all bigger, fatter and rustier than your vehicle ;p

Maybe instead of random breath and drug testing we could have random pop quizzes at checkpoints on the roadcode...

[Berries]

Apparently position 3 is never in a good enough position to make the call on safety etc

It shouldn't be, because the way stop signs are supposed to be determined is a measurement taken 9m from the limit line along the main road. If you can't see 1.2x the speed limit then a stop sign should be installed, otherwise a give way sign should be sufficient. It is quite possible that the second vehicle has excellent visibility from their stationary position around 6 or 7m beyond the limit line. The third vehicle will be beyond the point where the measurement is taken so their visibility should be reduced. The problem is that quite a few stop signs don't meet the criteria -

Example 1. Crossroads with stop on one side due to poor visibility and give way on the other. Due to all the numb nut drivers who couldn't work out who had priority the council makes the give way sign with perfect visibility a stop sign.
Example 2. Crash at a give way sign where the driver failed to give way made in to a stop sign just because.
Example 3. Moaning residents complain to council and get a stop sign put up for the kiddies.

In all three cases compliance will be lower than expected because the visibility is ok but then there will be calls for enforcement and lots of tickets issued.

And finally, because ranting about stop signs is one of my favourite subjects, you have those that are correctly installed because from a drivers eye height the required visibility is not met, say for example due to some guardrail to the right of the intersection. On a bike (or a truck, or even a 4WD/SUV) you don't have the same constraints because you are much higher than a car driver and can see clearly for several hundred metres over the guardrail. You'll still get a ticket if you don't come to a complete stop though. DAMHIK.

I come back to an earlier suggestion I made, get rid of all stop signs and just enforce failure to give way which is what cause crashes. Failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign has never caused a crash. Perversely, after vehicle 1 moves off vehicle 3 assumes that vehicle 2 will keep going and just as the driver looks up the road to check the way is clear vehicle 2 comes to a complete stop and then gets rear ended. Not an uncommon occurrence at stop signs.

/rant

[MVnut]

I get things wrong for sure, I don't mind admitting that, but 42 years with a licence, approx 3 million km, no accidents, no tickets....can't be doing too much wrong

[DR650gary]

I can't be doing too much wrong

"Posting"













Just kidding

[Ender EnZed]

Also the Police pointed out to me that while the 2nd vehicle may proceed through a Stop sign 'slowly'

So you don't have to come to a complete stop at the line every time. Good to know.