A safety framework for discussing motorcycle safety

[MrKiwi]

As some of you will know, I’ve done my stint on the Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council. Three and half years. Did I achieve anything during that time? I suspect that will be a moot point, but I persevered for two appointment terms with my reasons stated in other threads on this website. Two areas of work that stood out for me, were making our roads motorcycle friendly (a long term project that needed to start) and the research around conspicuity, something I personally took a lot of interest in.

About two years ago, I began working fulltime in the motor industry representing the views of the new vehicle sector (cars, truck and motorbikes). In this role I have been giving some thought to how we advocate a better outcome for motorcyclists on our roads. At the risk of teaching you how to suck eggs (not my intention) we all know our roads are not always a safe place, the policy bias of officials is skewed towards cars and trucks and certain government agencies would rather see less of us on our roads.

Government agencies have their own framework for thinking about motorcyclists. I want to change that and develop a strategic framework so I stick to my knitting when lobbying. After reviewing a number of documents from around the world (particularly informed by a recent publication of the International Motorcycling Manufactures Association), I’m leaning towards the following:
· Public Policy Considerations – instead of officials thinking motorcycling is a risky mode to have less of, officials and policy makers should recognise that motorcycles (mopeds, scooters, motorbikes) are a key mode of transport which fulfils a number of important and diverse roles. As such they should be integrated into policies and initiatives aimed at creating a safer environment for riders and addressing vulnerabilities that we face.
· Training for riders and awareness raising among other road users – in road safety this is known as human factors, and it has been shown to be the most critical in accidents. Pre and post licence training for motorcycle riders is important. But it should not stop there, it is crucial that other road users have an appreciation of the dangers of misjudging the speed or behaviour of a rider, including the failure to see an oncoming rider. This should be incorporated into training for all road users and it should be a part of obtaining a drivers licence.
· Infrastructure suited to Safer Motorcycling – New Zealand roads are designed and built primarily for trucks and cars. Motorcyclists, until recently, have not had a look in! All road controlling authorities (NZTA and local government) should in particular pay attention to the needs of motorcyclists in road design, construction, repairs, and maintenance.
· Technology Advances – Manufacturers are committed to on-going research into and development of safer motorcycle technologies and safety devices.

It is also my view that government agencies should take a more integrated approach to stakeholder engagement, move towards an accurate and harmonised data collection process and recognise NZ’s unique characteristics (ie not all international strategies can, or should, be imported into NZ without modification).

OK, now for your views – good, bad and the ugly. What am I missing?

[Akzle]

ban cars .

-edit-
oh yes, and ban "safety regulatory framework" bullshit, because that shit doesn't achieve any shit except getting some old white cunts paid, and if there's any people that don't need to be paid, it's old white cunts.
in fact, ban old white cunts.

[Bald Eagle]

Unless the political masters of the policy makers change their bias nothing will change. They determine the policy objectives.

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

[R650R]

Your missing the DGAF factor of most motorists. From early years as a Fish and chip delivery rider, M/C commuter and 15 years of trucking about 90% of the people that pull out in front of you or drift across the centre aren't paying any attention or didn't even look to start with.
So I'm big on the training aspect but instead of fancy lane positioning nonsense keep it pure and simple. Having a gameplan when vehicle x fails to give way is the important thing. Teach people to think like this then it becomes pure instinct when things go south.
And infrastructure, remove redesign things to be rounded and frangible rather than square edges. Tempted to write to transit about the latest young death down here. Was car running off roading striking culvert and rolling/flying across road. now its only a matter of money that those precast culverts aren't designed and installed in a different way. When a vehicle goes off road for whatever reason its bound to bounce off that in an unpredictable fashion into the path of others. They've taken over the roll of population control that powerpoles used to have.
This nation needs more designated rest areas for all road users too, but simple things like including a tap so riders can wash visors mid journey etc and a sheltered area to get out of the weather for ten mins and wake the brain up.
As an example excluding the two pubs and café which aren't always open, there is only one rest area on SH5 with a covered structure.

[Akzle]

Your missing the DGAF factor of most motorists. From early years as a Fish and chip delivery rider, M/C commuter and 15 years of trucking about 90% of the people that pull out in front of you or drift across the centre aren't paying any attention or didn't even look to start with.
So I'm big on the training aspect but instead of fancy lane positioning nonsense keep it pure and simple. Having a gameplan when vehicle x fails to give way is the important thing. Teach people to think like this then it becomes pure instinct when things go south.
And infrastructure, remove redesign things to be rounded and frangible rather than square edges. Tempted to write to transit about the latest young death down here. Was car running off roading striking culvert and rolling/flying across road. now its only a matter of money that those precast culverts aren't designed and installed in a different way. When a vehicle goes off road for whatever reason its bound to bounce off that in an unpredictable fashion into the path of others. They've taken over the roll of population control that powerpoles used to have.
This nation needs more designated rest areas for all road users too, but simple things like including a tap so riders can wash visors mid journey etc and a sheltered area to get out of the weather for ten mins and wake the brain up.
As an example excluding the two pubs and café which aren't always open, there is only one rest area on SH5 with a covered structure.

so what you're saying is, remove the "drink driving limit" so more pubs are motivated to open for longer hours and we can all get further in greater safety, with frequent doobie breaks.

fucken game on.

[TheDemonLord]

Your missing the DGAF factor of most motorists. From early years as a Fish and chip delivery rider, M/C commuter and 15 years of trucking about 90% of the people that pull out in front of you or drift across the centre aren't paying any attention or didn't even look to start with.
So I'm big on the training aspect but instead of fancy lane positioning nonsense keep it pure and simple. Having a gameplan when vehicle x fails to give way is the important thing. Teach people to think like this then it becomes pure instinct when things go south.

Allow all motorcyclists to ride with an RPG - this will soon sort out the DGAF attitude of car drivers AND magically improve lane discipline AND improve drivers awareness of Motorcyclists.

as for the OP - noble sentiments - I wish you the best, but unless there is either a major shift in motorcyclist numbers, we are unlikely to see any major improvements and since we aren't 'green' in the same sense as cyclists are, then we are aren't going to get any recognition of being a positive minority.

[Kickaha]

Allow all motorcyclists to ride with an RPG - this will soon sort out the DGAF attitude of car drivers .

You say that as though motorcyclists don't have that same DGAF attitude

[TheDemonLord]

You say that as though motorcyclists don't have that same DGAF attitude

Never said they didn't - but can you say an idiot on a bike is capable of causing the same amount of carnage as an idiot behind the wheel of a 2 tonne Remuera Tractor?

[Hitcher]

All road controlling authorities (NZTA and local government) pay particular attention to the needs of motorcyclists in road design, construction, repairs, and maintenance.

I hope you mean that this may be their intention, as it certainly isn't a reality.

As one example, NZTA doesn't know how to lay tarseal. My mother, all 80 years of her, could do a better job than many of the kilometres that NZTA signs off on, and she doesn't know the first thing about laying course chip roads. Many km of new seal fail within the first day, with chip being ripped out or the tar boiling through, either outcome causing shiny patches that are potentially lethal to motorcyclists in wet weather. As well as being suboptimal, this is taxpayers' money wasted. These shiny patches loiter threateningly for years. Forget about stupid campaigns like dobbing in stock trucks dribbling shit (something that the Highway Patrol could fix in a week), shiny tar patches are a fundamental road integrity issue that should be put right immediately. NZTA could start by holding their contractors accountable for these failures.

A second example, NZTA doesn't know how to build safe corners. If they did they would have heard about something called "camber". The left-hand off-camber sweeper at the top of the Ngauranga Gorge is a death trap that has claimed motorists since soon after it was opened 25 years ago. Preceding that is the Wainuiomata Hill Road (OK, not a state highway, but the camber lesson should have been learned there) which is a symphony of off-camber corners. More recent are the "improvements" on the Kaitoke side of the Rimutaka Hill Road summit. Brand new corners, many badly off camber with deceptive exit vision lines, on a stretch of road that is also too steep for heavy vehicles. Magic.

A third example, NZTA doesn't know how to build roundabouts. Double-laning the Otaki roundabout 10 years ago created a choke point that, on a good weekend, can result in a tailback as far as Levin. Why? Because both lanes are able to direct traffic straight through the intersection -- it's a Clayton's passing lane choke point. On holiday weekends all other passing lanes heading north out of Wellington on SH1 are coned off, but the Otaki roundabout escapes. The left-hand lanes at roundabouts like these should be left-hand turn only. That would also give traffic entering off side roads a crack at gaining access to the main highway. This disaster has recently been repeated at the new roundabout at Otaihanga, which is also badly off camber, as several capsized articulated truck-and-trailer units can attest. Tough shit for any vehicle that happened to be on their offside when they went over.

A fourth example, the pedestrian traffic lights on the main street in Otaki. I mean, for fuck's sake, why weren't these placed 15m further back so that they could control the Arthur Street intersection as well?

I'll stop now before I write War and Peace, but I'm happy to do so, preferably on a paid-per-word basis.

[Akzle]

A second example, NZTA doesn't know how to build safe corners. If they did they would have heard about something called "camber".

it's not cambered, because it's crowned,
centrally, so the water runs off or some shit

[Hitcher]

it's not camber, it's crowned,
centrally, so the water runs off or some shit

Apparently in such a manner that avoids the cost of having to have drainage channels on both sides of the highway.

[Reckless]

I hope you mean that this may be their intention, as it certainly isn't a reality.

As one example, NZTA doesn't know how to lay tarseal. My mother, all 80 years of her, could do a better job than many of the kilometres that NZTA signs off on, and she doesn't know the first thing about laying course chip roads. Many km of new seal fail within the first day, with chip being ripped out or the tar boiling through, either outcome causing shiny patches that are potentially lethal to motorcyclists in wet weather. As well as being suboptimal, this is taxpayers' money wasted. These shiny patches loiter threateningly for years. Forget about stupid campaigns like dobbing in stock trucks dribbling shit (something that the Highway Patrol could fix in a week), shiny tar patches are a fundamental road integrity issue that should be put right immediately. NZTA could start by holding their contractors accountable for these failures.

A second example, NZTA doesn't know how to build safe corners. If they did they would have heard about something called "camber". The left-hand off-camber sweeper at the top of the Ngauranga Gorge is a death trap that has claimed motorists since soon after it was opened 25 years ago. Preceding that is the Wainuiomata Hill Road (OK, not a state highway, but the camber lesson should have been learned there) which is a symphony of off-camber corners. More recent are the "improvements" on the Kaitoke side of the Rimutaka Hill Road summit. Brand new corners, many badly off camber with deceptive exit vision lines, on a stretch of road that is also too steep for heavy vehicles. Magic.

A third example, NZTA doesn't know how to build roundabouts. Double-laning the Otaki roundabout 10 years ago created a choke point that, on a good weekend, can result in a tailback as far as Levin. Why? Because both lanes are able to direct traffic straight through the intersection -- it's a Clayton's passing lane choke point. On holiday weekends all other passing lanes heading north out of Wellington on SH1 are coned off, but the Otaki roundabout escapes. The left-hand lanes at roundabouts like these should be left-hand turn only. That would also give traffic entering off side roads a crack at gaining access to the main highway. This disaster has recently been repeated at the new roundabout at Otaihanga, which is also badly off camber, as several capsized articulated truck-and-trailer units can attest. Tough shit for any vehicle that happened to be on their offside when they went over.

A fourth example, the pedestrian traffic lights on the main street in Otaki. I mean, for fuck's sake, why weren't these placed 15m further back so that they could control the Arthur Street intersection as well?

I'll stop now before I write War and Peace, but I'm happy to do so, preferably on a paid-per-word basis.

Agree 100% Hitcher
to add to this
Existing roads are in a shocking state.

About 10 of us have just done (Last Friday Sat Sunday) 1000K round top of the North Tour. Auck, Dargaville, Ahipara, to the Cape lighthouse, Russel, Mangawhai and back.

Seal so old tar bleed was the whole road wide, repairs unmarked and open, Repairs done but feathering at the edges spewing fine tar granules all over the road.
Not just areas pretty much constantly, it was terrible.
I don't mind the wet at all and am Confident on those roads in those conditions. But in my mind it was a big fail for LTNZ and New Zealand.


When will drive the the conditions fail and the conditions provided get so bad that at any speed there is a to high chance of failure.
I maintain Mrs Smith in her 4x4 taking her kids on a tour doesn't have a clue how slippery and dangerous the roads are she's driving on!
She's driving in blind faith and luck. Only we have an idea because we are bikers.
But when she fails its prob put down to speed or not driving to the conditions.

It was a great Bike ride, no breakdowns, no off's, no tickets so I haven't got an axe to grind!

But my lasting impression was how really really dangerous the environment created by poor NZ roads are to some off NZ's loveliest places!

[Akzle]

I maintain Mrs Smith in her 4x4 taking her kids on a tour doesn't have a clue how slippery and dangerous the roads are she's driving on!
Only we have an idea because we are bikers.

mrs smith probably not, but mr smith just might. on the whole, that "holier than thou" shit don't wash.

but thankfully its the manufacturers' responsibility to counteract poor driving with technology., like abs , tc, esp, etc which allows fuckwits to do things wrong (braking, cornering, braking while cornering, putting on lippy, getting dressed, sipping fucking latės) and get away with it.

limit the national fleet to manual rwd vehicles manufactured prior to 1995. and ban women.

[R650R]

As one example, NZTA doesn't know how to lay tarseal. My mother, all 80 years of her, could do a better job than many of the kilometres that NZTA signs off on, and she doesn't know the first thing about laying course chip roads.

Yes. Half the problem us we use traffic to compact the chip instead of a prescribed amount of roller passes. We're one of the few developed countries in the world that does this cheap nasty shortcut. Not to mention the signs left out too long after wards and loose chip not cleaned up. When I was in UK I saw them lay chip, traffic never drivers over it till its 100% finished (they do one side at a time). One time a contractor stuffed up in Norfolk, it was headline news that a total of 12 cars got chipped windscreens ove next week and they got chewed up for it bigtime.
I know an older driver that did roadworks, apparently when they 'cut' (blend) the tar with kerosene its a different amount everytime depending on weather and temperature. Translation, some fella in a hivis guesses it and the skill is prob not being passed on properly...

a stretch of road that is also too steep for heavy vehicles. Magic.

A third example, NZTA doesn't know how to build roundabouts. Double-laning the Otaki roundabout 10 years ago created a choke point that. This disaster has recently been repeated at the new roundabout at Otaihanga, which is also badly off camber, as several capsized articulated truck-and-trailer units can attest. Tough shit for any vehicle that happened to be on their offside when they went over.

It's only muppets that roll over at those roundabouts. Horrible as they are, a competent driver should read the road ahead and drive accordingly. But I do agree that they shouldn't use them as a traffic calming measure when it creates a bigger hazard. Truck rollovers at roundabouts (and they happen at the 'flat' ones too) are generally always excess speed. Agree 100% about the left turn idea. We have those double lane roundabouts on non double lane roads here in the bay and they just create a hazard.

Further to your left turn idea I think any T junction close to a major roundabout should be left turn only and all the right turning traffic can just go to the roundabout and do a 180.

[Kickaha]

I maintain Mrs Smith in her 4x4 taking her kids on a tour doesn't have a clue how slippery and dangerous the roads are she's driving on!
She's driving in blind faith and luck. Only we have an idea because we are bikers.

Bikers have shown themselves to be just as shit as any other group of road users at judging any of that