MotoGP 2015

[husaberg]

No, he said that a 250gp bike is a far cry from both 500s and H1Rs. He did not compare 500s/H1Rs to each other. Fuck me, basic english dude.

Maybe you need to brush up on basic English. As is an It could not be any clearer.

Which is a far cry from a 500, as is an H1R. All of the names I listed honed their craft and made their names on big four strokes.

Pete a H1R is a factory 500 GP bike.
Tis what Ginger used to race.

Depending on the year they looked like one of these.

LOl. I know exactly what an H1R is thanks mate.

Well to save me the time (seeing as you know everything and have read the book), tell me how many times he raced his H1R Then tell me how many races he raced in on big four strokes before he went to the 500's?

And an H1R was what...80hp?

[sugilite:Me]

If you check the quickest laps recorded for G.P. 250s & 500s at Phillip Is.. you will see they are very close.. & not a "far cry".

The need for the rider & tuner/mechanics to correctly set up multiples of 125cc cylinders, pipes, carbs,/gear ratios & etc..
is a "far cry" from say, Moto 2 - now, though..

Lap times are not really a indication of what different class bikes are actually like to ride. Both 250 and 500 strokers were very different to ride, both would launch a rider into space if they could - the 500's much more so.
I remember a fair few 600 riders here thinking they were going to be stars when they jumped onto a 1000 - they looked at the spec sheets and thought "Wow, the thou makes much more power and only weighs a little more, I'm going to kill it! Then they find out what all that extra power and rotating mass does for a bikes handling - and proceed to launch themselves into the outer stratosphere on a regular basis.

Good points made regarding set up etc.

I had a hotted up RG400, and spent lots of time on my mates RG500 and raced a RG500 once. You are right, they were more racer like than the RZ500, being lighter and having more razor like powerband. HP wise they were only about 10hp apart. And what a difference that made!! Now add 70-80 HP more and take away another 25 kg's to get to GP500 level - and that my friend is another planet entirely.

Maybe you need to brush up on basic English. As is an It could not be any clearer.

So where is this "proof" Slight raced a KR250 in NZ 250 production? Pucker up sweet cheeks
If only your fact finding skills matched your super ninja multi quoting skills!

[J.A.W.]

I had a hotted up RG400, and spent lots of time on my mates RG500 and raced a RG500 once. You are right, they were more racer like than the RZ500, being lighter and having more razor like powerband. HP wise they were only about 10hp apart. And what a difference that made!! Now add 70-80 HP more and take away another 25 kg's to get to GP500 level - and that my friend is another planet entirely.

"Another planet entirely"?

Nah, 'On steroids' - maybe, or as Jake-the-muss would say, benefitting from "..enough speedwork"..

APE is Formula Ford compared to Formula 1 cars..


(basic concept-wise, I mean, since, obviously - a full factory bike is quite a bit nicer than a customer racer, & considerably moreso than any showroom proddy 'race-rep'..)

Back in `94, Sport Rider mag tested a ( 211lb dry) customer race ( Rotax powered) Aprilia RS 250,
& being Yanks, they naturally - took it down the strip, recording a 10.91 @ 130.4mph 1/4 mile.. not too shabby..


But if you did want to compare lap times.. Simmo's quickest ever 250 GP lap of P.Is. was a 1:32, ( back in 2008, & still quicker than the Moto 2s!),
& 'bout 12 secs quicker than the ( Suzuki powered) Aprilia RS 250 race-rep - proddy bike - record..

[husaberg]

Lap times are not really a indication of what different class bikes are actually like to ride. Both 250 and 500 strokers were very different to ride, both would launch a rider into space if they could - the 500's much more so.
I remember a fair few 600 riders here thinking they were going to be stars when they jumped onto a 1000 - they looked at the spec sheets and thought "Wow, the thou makes much more power and only weighs a little more, I'm going to kill it! Then they find out what all that extra power and rotating mass does for a bikes handling - and proceed to launch themselves into the outer stratosphere on a regular basis.

Good points made regarding set up etc.

I had a hotted up RG400, and spent lots of time on my mates RG500 and raced a RG500 once. You are right, they were more racer like than the RZ500, being lighter and having more razor like powerband. HP wise they were only about 10hp apart. And what a difference that made!! Now add 70-80 HP more and take away another 25 kg's to get to GP500 level - and that my friend is another planet entirely.

So where is this "proof" Slight raced a KR250 in NZ 250 production? Pucker up sweet cheeks
If only your fact finding skills matched your super ninja multi quoting skills!

Apples with apples in 1984 what GP500 bike had more than 140HP. Answer is none of them did. The Yamaha only had 130
Dynos show completely stock RZ500 (which was certainly milder than a RG500) had 80 HP at the rear wheel.
Last time I used a calculator that is 50HP difference. Not 70-80 HP. it was quite a few years later until the 500 Gp bikes Obtained that sort of HP. It was also about that time the minimum weight were raised for the 500's.
This is for a stock standard road bike. Of the two the RG500 was obviously the higher spec more faithful to GP design with a higher HP potential.

As for the proof I haven't found the mag. Yet. but I will post it when I find it. I can pretty safely say the year was 1984 though and the mag was the other one not Kiwi rider they merged a few years later, it was called ........news I think.
I have it somewhere as I had previously posted the results of the race at Sydenham that year around the houses. The people in CHCH will remember that was the year they ran the GP there.

And those that are saying 2T dirt bikes, and production based 2T road bikes prepares one for a 500gp bike is like saying your good to go on a superbike after competing on a production based 300cc 4 stroke. Hilarious.

Perhaps you could name the rider that won a 500CC world championsip between 1983 and 1998 that did not have dirt track experience because I can't think of a single one.
Spencer
Lawson
Gardner
Rainey
Swantz
Doohan
That's a bloody big huge co-incidence that all the champions for 15 consecutive years. The common denominator is every single one of them had extensive dirt track experience.
At least 3 of them proddy raced a RG500 or a RZ500 as well to boot.
All them bar Doohan and Swantz also raced 250GP bikes at National level.

[Autech]

If you check the quickest laps recorded for G.P. 250s & 500s at Phillip Is.. you will see they are very close.. & not a "far cry".

The need for the rider & tuner/mechanics to correctly set up multiples of 125cc cylinders, pipes, carbs,/gear ratios & etc..
is a "far cry" from say, Moto 2 - now, though..

A nice sealed crate Honda engine would do that to ya.
If you look back on this thread there have multiple instances of us talking about how the Moto2 class whilst good in theory hasn't brought about the revolution to motocycle design it was once hoped it would. The teams are going with the tried and tested chassis options with nothing to revolutionary in their shape and design as who want to take a risk for a year and have a rider circulating in 30th place?
It is a shame as I'm sure there are some great minds out there with some excellent ideas. Not me though, I'm a mediocre mind on the best of days.

Lap times are not really a indication of what different class bikes are actually like to ride. Both 250 and 500 strokers were very different to ride, both would launch a rider into space if they could - the 500's much more so.
I remember a fair few 600 riders here thinking they were going to be stars when they jumped onto a 1000 - they looked at the spec sheets and thought "Wow, the thou makes much more power and only weighs a little more, I'm going to kill it! Then they find out what all that extra power and rotating mass does for a bikes handling - and proceed to launch themselves into the outer stratosphere on a regular basis.

I've come close to launching myself on a 59hp (in theory) bike a couple of times, I better stay of the old 2strokes for now!

[sugilite:Me]

As for the proof I haven't found the mag. Yet. but I will post it when I find it. I can pretty safely say the year was 1984

I do not fancy your safety margin there buddy lol

Perhaps you could name the rider that won a 500CC world championsip between 1983 and 1998 that did not have dirt track experience because I can't think of a single one.
Spencer
Lawson
Gardner
Rainey
Swantz
Doohan
That's a bloody big huge co-incidence that all the champions for 15 consecutive years. The common denominator is every single one of them had extensive dirt track experience.

Ummm, how many of those riders ran 2T in those national dirt bike champs sport?
Using your logic, any motorcycle you can name "prepares you" for a 500 GP bike.

[J.A.W.]

Ummm, did you forget the part about 2-stroke road race set-up?
Y'know, learning the feel & ability to give feedback on tuning/gearing stuff?

Not so much from giant porky 4T 4's that would directly translate.. by comparison..

[sugilite:Me]

Ummm, did you forget the part about 2-stroke road race set-up?
Y'know, learning the feel & ability to give feedback on tuning/gearing stuff?

Not so much from giant porky 4T 4's that would directly translate.. by comparison..

If you are talking to me, I have no quibble with 250 gp having helped get a rider ready for 500GP.

I just take issue with proddie based 2T road bikes and dirt bikes. Pretty much any dirt bike will do.
I'm actually a 2T nut. I have a KX500 after all. I would of loved to have raced a 250 GP bike, but my 6'6 frame did not like that much haha. Do I regret selling my RG's and RZ500? Hell yes.

[J.A.W.]

If you are talking to me, I have no quibble with 250 gp having helped get a rider ready for 500GP.

I just take issue with proddie based 2T road bikes and dirt bikes. Pretty much any dirt bike will do.
I'm actually a 2T nut. I have a KX500 after all. I would of loved to have raced a 250 GP bike, but my 6'6 frame did not like that much haha. Do I regret selling my RG's and RZ500? Hell yes.

Well, you & I both know that in general the bigger the capacity, the less the specific output, the less fussy the set-up,
& the less critical the tune.. especially for 2Ts..

But real hi-peformance ~125cc sized cylinders, dirt or track, pukka or proddy, do need proper/accurate fettling/setting-up,
& in competition, full-on World Champs, or in local track use, the winners are usually - those who do it best..
..& they likely learned that craft early on.( or used to)..

[gav]

No sign of any early Kawasakis in this for Aaron Slight

http://memim.com/aaron-slight.html

Sporting successes
New Zealand 250 cc Championship: First race and first win for Yamaha - Distance: Manfeild, New Zealand
New Zealand 250 cc Championship: Champion on Yamaha
Australian Superbike Championship: 3rd place in Kawasaki
Superbike World Championship: 2nd place in the wildcard use on the track Manfeild, New Zealand
WSBK: 3rd place at the wildcard use on the track Manfield, New Zealand
Australian Superbike Championship: Champion on Kawasaki
Pan - Pacific Superbike Championship: Champion on Kawasaki
WSBK: 3rd place in each wildcard inserts on the track Sugo, Japan and Manfeild, New Zealand
WSBK: 6th place in Kawasaki, 249 points (1 wins, 6 podiums, 4 fastest laps )
WSBK: 3rd place in Kawasaki, 316 points ( 1 wins, 10 podiums, 2 pole positions, two fastest laps )
8- hour race at Suzuka: winner Scott Russell on Kawasaki ZXR -7
WSBK: 3rd place at Honda, 277 points (10 stages )
8- hour race at Suzuka: Winner with Doug Polen on Honda RVF 750 RC45
WSBK: 3rd place at Honda, 323 points (2 wins, 11 podiums, 2 pole positions, two fastest laps )
8- hour race at Suzuka: Winner with Tadayuki Okada on the Honda RVF 750 RC45
Superbike World Championship: 2nd place on Honda 347 points ( 1 wins, 13 podiums, 4 fastest laps )
WSBK: 3rd place at Honda, 343 points (3 wins, 11 podiums, 1 pole positions, 1 fastest lap )
Superbike World Championship: 2nd place at Honda, 347 points (5 wins, 10 podiums, 2 pole positions, eight fastest laps )
WSBK: 4th place at Honda, 323 points (12 podiums, 1 pole positions, two fastest laps )
WSBK: 8th place at Honda, 153 points

[husaberg]

No sign of any early Kawasakis in this for Aaron Slight

http://memim.com/aaron-slight.html

Sporting successes
New Zealand 250 cc Championship: First race and first win for Yamaha - Distance: Manfeild, New Zealand
New Zealand 250 cc Championship: Champion on Yamaha
Australian Superbike Championship: 3rd place in Kawasaki
Superbike World Championship: 2nd place in the wildcard use on the track Manfeild, New Zealand
WSBK: 3rd place at the wildcard use on the track Manfield, New Zealand
Australian Superbike Championship: Champion on Kawasaki
Pan - Pacific Superbike Championship: Champion on Kawasaki
WSBK: 3rd place in each wildcard inserts on the track Sugo, Japan and Manfeild, New Zealand
WSBK: 6th place in Kawasaki, 249 points (1 wins, 6 podiums, 4 fastest laps )
WSBK: 3rd place in Kawasaki, 316 points ( 1 wins, 10 podiums, 2 pole positions, two fastest laps )
8- hour race at Suzuka: winner Scott Russell on Kawasaki ZXR -7
WSBK: 3rd place at Honda, 277 points (10 stages )
8- hour race at Suzuka: Winner with Doug Polen on Honda RVF 750 RC45
WSBK: 3rd place at Honda, 323 points (2 wins, 11 podiums, 2 pole positions, two fastest laps )
8- hour race at Suzuka: Winner with Tadayuki Okada on the Honda RVF 750 RC45
Superbike World Championship: 2nd place on Honda 347 points ( 1 wins, 13 podiums, 4 fastest laps )
WSBK: 3rd place at Honda, 343 points (3 wins, 11 podiums, 1 pole positions, 1 fastest lap )
Superbike World Championship: 2nd place at Honda, 347 points (5 wins, 10 podiums, 2 pole positions, eight fastest laps )
WSBK: 4th place at Honda, 323 points (12 podiums, 1 pole positions, two fastest laps )
WSBK: 8th place at Honda, 153 points

Correct, but as far as i'm aware Aaron won three national 250 titles I doesn't mention that there either?

I do not fancy your safety margin there buddy lol


Ummm, how many of those riders ran 2T in those national dirt bike champs sport?
Using your logic, any motorcycle you can name "prepares you" for a 500 GP bike.

Conversely where is your proof that all of his titles were on a Yamaha.
Out of those pretty much all of them. In case you are unaware they all pretty much had to ride the two strokes as juniors.
Gardner and Doohan and Swantz likely never raced any other sort of bike other than a two stroke up until superbikes
Therefore you original assertion was again wrong.
Just as your assertion to what Pete said was also wrong

[J.A.W.]

Slighty is listed as a KR 250 rider here,
- but on the factory G.P. bike.. http://www.superbikeplanet.com/kr250.htm

[gav]

Slighty is listed as a KR 250 rider here,
- but on the factory G.P. bike.. http://www.superbikeplanet.com/kr250.htm

Yes, in 1992, when he was a factory Kawasaki rider.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Maybe you need to brush up on basic English. As is an It could not be any clearer.

Weird how I didn't know what an H1R was eh? Oh yeah...you REALLY got ne there mate!~ I mean fuck me...what did I say..."an H1R is what...about 80hp?",,,and yet I didn't know what one was right? Riiiiight. I thought I'd dig the very same model recognition manual out I was made to know page by page back when I did my first tour of duty at Boyle Kawasaki. John and Mark wouldn't let me serve customers until I knew every single bike in that fucking book. It's still in pretty much the same condition today as it was back then.

Fuck me dead then...would you look at this!!!!



What an incredible coincidence! Not only did I remember/know what one was...I knew exactly how much fucking HP Kawasaki claimed in the day. 80 fucking HP knobface. So...I'll make it simple for you...to me (maybe not to you, but I don't give s shit waht you think), a poxy old 80hp wire wheeled drum braked H1R is nothing like a far more abvanced four cyl, liquid cooled disc braked RGV or similar. Just like a Manx Norton was nothing like one. But hey...they were the 500cc GP bike of the time you know!!! So fucking what??? They're NOTHING LIKE AN RGV500. As I also said...apart from being a 500cc two stroke...they share nothing. Do you get it you thick bastard?

Fuck we had a good laugh about you at work today. As Mark said today..."if you'd forgotten what an H1R is, I'd sack ya". You just stick yo uncle google...and leave the facts to those of us that've actually been there and done it a bit eh? Or have at least mingled with those that really did it. Look up Dicky Lawton one day Sonny. You'll maybe find out the shop I did my time at at the very beginning has a very rich history of 500cc grand prix racing and tuning. You may also find that knowledge has been passed on through the years and generations that are still there now.

Right down to the KR1SP's we built and I raced. AFTER Aaron Slight and his RZ250 Yamaha's were well gone.

Night night Mr Google. Oh, and ask ya boyfriend why it is that Croz's book cover has him astride a Z1R based superbike rather than an H1R?

Dickheads...both of ya.

Sorry everyone else. That's my last rant to these two retards.

As you were.

[husaberg]

Slighty is listed as a KR 250 rider here,
- but on the factory G.P. bike.. http://www.superbikeplanet.com/kr250.htm

Many many years later and it was a v twin.