Prepare to be grumpy - Auckland toll plan

[The End]

Prepare yourselves, the grumpy ones are coming:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11349967

[HenryDorsetCase]

I am all in favour of it. building motorways does not cure traffic congestion. It just ensures that you ahve more motorways clogged with cars.

I went to a really interesting lecture last year about public transport from a Professor at Harvard [Dr Edward Glaeser] who was out here. Boiled down, his advice was: If you build more motorways you get more traffic. If you want less traffic institute user pays. Example: Shanghai. Restricted number of number plates issued every year, plus user pays tolls = less traffic. Also he was not a fan of light rail: reckoned the same outcomes could be achieved with buses but with less capital infrastructure and thus cost. (the idea being you have roads already, you dont need to acquire greenfields then build rail lines and stations etc.

It was interesting, thought provoking, relevant, and will be ignored.

They usually put the lectures up on line: I will see if I can find it.


http://www.comsdev.canterbury.ac.nz/...&articleId=911


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3Mvz...864BA4&index=4

really really interesting lecture. Well worth an hour of your time.

[R650R]

The problem is not so much the toll but the technology they will need to implement it.
Auckland motorway already has too many entry points spaced closely together so traditional toll booths wont work.
So what will be required is electronic tags or prepay/postpay online and ANPR cameras like the northern bypass thingy.

But if you live in Auckland your probably higher paid than the rest of country for same job and already happy to pay ridiculous rental and housing prices so whats an extra $20 a week on tolls.

[R650R]

I am all in favour of it. building motorways does not cure traffic congestion. It just ensures that you ahve more motorways clogged with cars.
It was interesting, thought provoking, relevant, and will be ignored.

http://www.comsdev.canterbury.ac.nz/...&articleId=911

But we are decades away from completing or even contemplating and decent public transport infrastructure in NZ. Then there is the peculiarities of Aucklands layout and having major state highway passing through the middle.
A nice thought but our little country cant afford such lavish grand ideas, we can barley afford the upkeep of what we have already.

[HenryDorsetCase]

But we are decades away from completing or even contemplating and decent public transport infrastructure in NZ. Then there is the peculiarities of Aucklands layout and having major state highway passing through the middle.
A nice thought but our little country cant afford such lavish grand ideas, we can barley afford the upkeep of what we have already.

Well, they seem to be spending up large up there already. They have that massive fuckoff tunnel digger machine and whatnot, plus last time we were there the new Newmarket flyover thing. (I think it was Newmarket: near Technical Books on the Grate South Road).

The point is that if you manage what you have, charge real costs, you dont need to spend huge amounts of new money. surely no one would disagree that the current system is unsustainable in the long term?

[buggerit]

If they were serious about reducing congestion they would have free tolls for motorbikes and free parking.
By the way, how long till they use the system to ticket u for wof ,rego ,speed between entry and exit point infringements?

[R650R]

Well, they seem to be spending up large up there already. They have that massive fuckoff tunnel digger machine and whatnot, plus last time we were there the new Newmarket flyover thing. (I think it was Newmarket: near Technical Books on the Grate South Road).

The point is that if you manage what you have, charge real costs, you dont need to spend huge amounts of new money. surely no one would disagree that the current system is unsustainable in the long term?

Yes that's pocket money compared to what would be needed to implement a decent rail network like London tube system from scratch, an above ground system would require an untenable public works land grab of giant proportions.
Depends on what your version of sustainable is though. Really it seems to be working at the moment, Aucklands traffic issues are way less bad than other big cities around the world and kiwis love their cars.
What I'd like to know from the lovers of electric cars and buses etc is where the hell is all the juice going to come from, we're already having brownout issues at times and major strain on electric network. Just imagine 3 million people plugging in their prius at 5pm. People think NZ electric is clean but only about 63% is from renewable water/wind source, the rest is from coal and gas.

[FJRider]

What is the downside of the users of AUCKLAND roads ... paying for use of AUCKLAND roads ... ???

[blue rider]

What is the downside of the users of AUCKLAND roads ... paying for use of AUCKLAND roads ... ???

well we could solve the cost for roading everywhere in NZ with this idea.

use a motorway in France, Italy, Austria and certain parts of the US, China etc. and one pays user charges.

I have no issues with it. In fact make all motorways in the whole country payable, by nz'lers and tourists. Surely the government will find a use for the cash - i heard they need a new fleet of limousines.

[swbarnett]

Isn't that just fucken typical. It seems to be a national pasttime for those south of the Bombays to berate Aucklanders.

I agree with the point of build more roads, get more traffic.

What pisses me of in the extreme is how we as a nation seem to have the idea that roads/rail etc. (along with other civil projects) MUST be done. What a load of utter bullshit. The solution is blindingly simple. If Auckland (or any city) doesn't have the money for a rail link or another harbour crossing (for example) then just don't fucken build them.

We (even Aucklanders) are not bottomless pits. I, for one, have had bugger all pay increases in the past decade. In dollar terms power I'm on about 90% of what I was 10 years ago. Adjust that for the increased cost of living in that decade and that figure is a damn sight lower. A motorway toll is just another bite into a semi-fixed amount. I will not be getting an increase to cover it, that's for damn sure.

And on top of all this there is the issue of this probably being just another excuse to have more surveillance.

[R650R]

I see our talking points media showed no bias again, NOT. on one saying motorists don't pay for the priveledge blah blah.......
We already pay substantial taxes through a variety of means, how the govt spends it is a politicl decision.
Just another political distraction. 12 Billion over 10 years isn't much, especially with the jobs it will create. People forget we already blow 250 million a week on welfare in NZ

[swbarnett]

well we could solve the cost for roading everywhere in NZ with this idea.

use a motorway in France, Italy, Austria and certain parts of the US, China etc. and one pays user charges.

I have no issues with it. In fact make all motorways in the whole country payable, by nz'lers and tourists. Surely the government will find a use for the cash - i heard they need a new fleet of limousines.

The problem is that a motorway is a public good. Even the old granny that never leaves the house benifits from their existance.

Public goods, by definition, should be funcded by the public - not just the driving public.

I am all for user pays. Just make damn sure you understand fully who the user really is. In this case it is not just drivers.

[R650R]

What is the downside of the users of AUCKLAND roads ... paying for use of AUCKLAND roads ... ???

While I've no problem with the tolls, do you realise how much of what you eat, need, buy is made or imported via Auckland? Any rise in transport costs or inefficiencies gets passed on to the entire nation through higher goods prices.

[FJRider]

well we could solve the cost for roading everywhere in NZ with this idea.

why not ... sounds fair to me ...

use a motorway in France, Italy, Austria and certain parts of the US, China etc. and one pays user charges.

Who cares ... Europe is a LONG way from Paradise ...

I have no issues with it. In fact make all motorways in the whole country payable, by nz'lers and tourists. Surely the government will find a use for the cash - i heard they need a new fleet of limousines.

Ummmm ... it's NOT the (central) Government that's going to get the money ... the (Auckland/local) city council(s) will.

[mashman]

Old solutions to old problems with an absolutely inevitable outcome.

Find the traffic bottlenecks and build top notch business facilities 10 miles in the opposite direction to balance out the flows of traffic. No need for new roads then.